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T O P I C R E V I E Wpassionfruit3000Hello ladies and gentleman! I was recently reading through an article and found it incredibly interesting. Its about the conventional zodiac dates are actually off by a few dates and the discovery of a "13th sign" named Ophiuchus that has been omitted for thousands of years. It even includes the supposed REAL dates for all thirten zodiac signs. This is not the first time that i have heard of this theory so I decided to research it myself. Your feedback and comments are appreciated. Thanks!Here it is: What's Your Real Sign?13th constellation amuses astrologers and astronomers alike. by Oksana Koval, staff writer March 30, 2004 03:00 PM Horoscopes and most astrology books list 12 zodiac signs, few people know that there are actually 13 signs. According to astronomers, Ophiuchus (November 30-December 17) is the one sign that has been ignored for thousands of years. While Earth orbits around the sun, the sun appears in our sky in front of 13 groups of stars called constellations of the zodiac. People who were born during the time when the sun was in front of a certain constellation, get assigned their zodiac sign accordingly. Astrology books have identified 12 zodiac signs. But Ophiuchus, the 13th sign, was omitted. “People might have known this for 4000 years," said Keith Waxman, an SF State astronomy teacher. “They may have ignored certain areas and divided the sky into 12 constellations and ignored Ophiuchus, even though they knew that the sun drifted through that area.”The constellation’s borders have been established by astronomers since 1930, Waxman said. “There are really 13 regions of the sky. They are like states in the US," he explained. “The sign, which is Ophiuchus, really does exist in astronomy.”But this is not all. The dates of the modern horoscopes and corresponding signs are off by about 21 days, astronomers say. This is because our planet wobbles around its axis and completes the loop in every 26,000 years. Every 78 years the Earth moves by a degree, which represents a day difference in the zodiac system.“Each year the Earth is in a slightly different position in June,” said Waxman. This causes the sun to appear in front of a “slightly different amount of stars,” he added. So why is this information not in astrology books and horoscopes? One answer is that modern astrology books still use an old system that the ancient Egyptians and Babylonians once used. But Waxman offers more explanations to the question of why the astrology information is not updated.“Because it doesn’t matter,” said Waxman. He said he doesn’t believe that astrology dictates or predicts who you are. “If they add a new sign, people are going to be upset,” he added. Another reason for omitting Ophiuchus is marketing, said Waxman. “If you change it all of a sudden, people might start buying less magazines, less horoscope booklets and people will lose money.” Waxman, who believes in aliens and brings 4.5 billion-year-old meteorites to his class, breaks the news of 13 signs to his students every semester and receives mixed reactions. “Most (students) think it’s funny,” he said. “Most are not that serious about their sign as far as letting it govern their life. But some are. Some people have had tears in their eyes when they read it.”“I’m still me,” said Chris Colson, a 21-year-old psychology major who just found out that his real sign is Aries, not Taurus. But he wasn’t disturbed by the news because he doesn’t feel attached to his sign, he said. Huckleberry Greenlee, 31, a SF State student enrolled in a masters program, thought she was a Scorprio. When she found out that her “real” sign is Virgo, she wasn’t bothered too much. “I think the whole system is pretty vague,” she said. “I don’t think it matters how you set it up with 12 or 13 signs.” But she did have plans on getting a Scorpio tattoo. These plans are now placed on hold, she said.Check out how the new zodiac configuration affects the various signs.Sign Old Dates New Dates Capricorn Dec. 23-Jan. 20 Jan. 9- Feb. 15 Aquarius Jan. 21-Feb. 19 Feb. 16-Mar. 11 Pisces Feb. 20-Mar. 20 Mar. 12-Apr. 18 Aries Mar. 21-Apr. 20 Apr. 19-May 13 Taurus Apr. 21-May 21 May 14-June 19 Gemini May 22-June 21 June 20-July 20 Cancer June 22-July 22 July 21-Aug. 9 Leo July 23-Aug. 21 Aug. 10-Sept. 15 Virgo Aug. 22-Sept. 23 Sept. 16-Oct. 30 Libra Sept. 24-Oct. 23 Oct. 31-Nov. 22 Scorpio Oct. 24-Nov. 22 Nov. 23-Nov. 29 Ophiuchus Not a Part of the Zodiac Nov. 30-Dec. 17 Sagittarius Nov. 23-Dec. 22 Dec. 18-Jan. 8 AcousticGodI don't buy it. The reason is this:I was reading Love Signs by Linda, and she SO accurately portrayed my Taurus best friend I had to call him to find out his sign. Sure enough he IS a Taurus. This system would make him an Aries, and he acts nothing like any of the Aries I know.Now it would logically follow that if there were a 13th sign that all of the information we currently assign to signs would have to be re-evaluated, and the descriptions would all have to be re-written. Can you imagine the new brash, arrogant Pisces with their new love of history and war? Yikes! I can't.AcousticGodBut now I'm thinking about it.I'd love to read the book if anyone ever attempted to put the signs straight according to this theory.whalewasp78If so, I think the Egyptians would have made their interstellar masterpiece, The Great Pyramid, fitting to it. Unless of course what we, the public know, that which is kept from us.Check out Graham Hancock's 'Fingerprints of the Gods'. Very scientifically minded, and not as exhuberant as Von Daniken.Tranquil PoetI'm really a taurus? HUH.------------------Gemini sun, Cancer rising, Taurus moon------------------------------I would fly to the moon and back...If you'll be my baby.BlueRoamerThe thing is, who cares if the signs are shifted off by another constellation. Astrology is based on millenia of empirical observations of people born in THAT time of year, or with a planet in a certain part of the sky.What constellation is there doesn't even matter, they're just guideposts. Perhaps astrology does need a makeover and needs to readjust, but are you gonna do it?nove731It says I'd be a Pisces. That would be so weird, I think.I tend to notice in people I know, that their sun doesn't really shine through in their personalities, but when I listen to them talk about their lives, it shines through like a direction they take. Kinda like a path illuminated for them. Hmm...From what I know about Pisces, I haven't been going down that path, and from what I know about Aries, I have been going down that path.Archer5th december 1983damn! i want to remain a sagittarius...AcousticGodYeah, right now everything is evenned out. 4 elements, three quarters, etc. If a 13th were to arrive it would throw off the balance that currently exists.artlovesdawn.Tranquil Poet http://starsandcoffee.christian-astronomers.org/zodiac.shtml ------------------Gemini sun, Cancer rising, Taurus moon--------------------------------------------------*I would fly to the moon and back...If you'll be my baby.MoonDuchess88some astrologer(don't remember who)disputed this along time ago because they basically explained that there ARE other constellations in between the 12 original that aren't included, this is nothing new. Besides...I think the sign cancer sooo describes my inner nature way better than geminiMAGUS of MUSIC Ive heard this befoer, sadly havent seen it shot down enough times like should easily be. Besides the old callender and observations are still working. Do the constelations not come back into a circle every so often, as stated above ? 26,000 years. Theres no way I can be the only one who has already thought of this anser to all this... Time doesnt exist. Certainly not like most peaepl see it. The old zodiac still works because when it comes to it ,the time and original point of record still is happening at all the other moments of the 26,000 Earht years. Similar idea aplies to Earths amount of minuits a day changing. If our generations could live long enough Im sure we could learn to utilize the differnt backdrops of the constilations and other constelations into our current astrology. Maybe an astrologer will start this revolutioinizing by learning how to use the different aspects of Ophiuchus to the other already familiar 12 signs. I wonder if the average human mind owuld have a hard time concieving and obsorbing the further incite this would show beyond what even our best current astrologers can handle. LibraSparkleSheaa posted something about this a while back... if not here, then in the Free Astrology Course. I'll see if I can dig it up.LibraSparkleIn Astrology: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003758.html Here's another in the Free Astrology Course (you have to sign up to enter): http://www.linda-goodman.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=displayprivate&number=12&topic=000253 ScotScorpI was stargazing last nite w/a astronomy nut and actually searched for a cluster inside Ophiuchus.I really don't believe it. If it was meant to be, it would have been. Great men from long ago knew alot more about stars that most people today do, and they did it w/the naked eye. Angela------------------Scorpio/Leo/Leo"All things are bound together. All things connect." Chief SeattleSecretGardenAgainMAGUS, thank you for clarifying with something concrete... its not that i dont understand where other people are coming from, but i really dont see how 'i dont want to be a taurus/aries/gem/scorp etc' is a valid excuse to deny soemthing. Some people dont really relate to their sun sign and thus discard astrology completely. I myself dont really relate to my sun sign (but I Dont to Taurus either, which Im supposed to be ) The point is, to refute the argument with a valid, logical argument, and not 'Coz I dont want it that wayyyy'. LoveSGSecretGardenAgainHaha TP that link is crazy quote:Promises - Empty promises, lying and exaggeration are commonplace among people today. What a difference, then, to find that the Bible is full of true promises - promises given by God, not empty, and given for those who sincerely seek to know God. These promises give us purpose, direction, strength and help. We WANT predictions, but we NEED promises. Examples: Psalm 145:18 The Lord is near to all who call upon him, to all who call upon him in truth. Luke 11:9 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. Philippians 4:19 My God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Read about more of the many hundreds of God's promises for living rich fulfilling meaningful lives.SO WHO CAN I TRUST?The heavens are there to declare the glory of God, not to tell us our future. Only God knows our future - He tells us that all the days planned for us were written in his book before one of them came to be. (Read Psalm 139 for more.) He tells us what we NEED to know, not what we WANT to know. So why not check your prospects with someone you CAN trust? Read on for what God has already revealed to us. this guy seems like hes out to disprove astrology simply because in his/her mind it conflicts with the christian ideal he/she grew up with . maybe he/she should actually read about aspects, houses, risings and find out more about him/herself before jumping to judge astrology. Id like to know exactly what empirical evidence he has to prove that astrology is incorrect or wrong and only religion can tell us what is going to happen. so i should stop following my transits apparently and just read the Bible to see if I should date the Aries or the Aqua man right if the guy wasnt so naive and plain silly it might even be blood boiling. BESIDES the fact that he has a link at the very bottom of the page called 'how to avoid the TRAP of astrology/zodiac' as if we're all weirdo astrologers out there zapping people with our mind numbing traps. um.....yeah LoveSGMAGUS of MUSIC No prob Secred Garden. My pleasure, and thanks to growing up with my father I do have a tallent for defeating debates with simple truth over their logic when I decide to apply my self to it... This subject was easy for me to combat since its been on my mind for a long time now... And Im not about to let your typicaly mortaly ignorants und skeptics win this "masterdebation " that easily ! Besides,,, I realy dont think it was our particular species of human who originaly gave us the plotting, recording , and zodiac of hte stars views form Earth... I truly beleive what Sumerian tablets have claimed,,, that it was the two Annukia's known as ENKI and RAH [Father and son] who first recorded the heavenns views from Earths moon. Probably even before the Age of Leo . I have no doubt those two were already aware of simple things like how itme realy works , and how to fully utilize astrology---- no matter wich point in the UniVerse you view it from. After all- the both of them already knew how to use this ancient science and art on their own plannet, maybe more.MAGUS of MUSIC woops. I ment to say defeating debates with simple truth over thier acts of facts when I decide to apply my self to it... Little drunk here today !LeylaLeFay1) The Three "Wise Men" were Astrologers2) The Dead Sea scrolls have page after page of Astrology charts of Jewish Leaders3) The Kaballah teaches mysticismBattle of EvermoreJust scanned through this....If I were a Leo, I think I would be a real a$$hole, because I have a Leo stellium. My Virgo Sun cancels that out alot. Maybe we are just programmed to act like the 12 signs we know though?MAGUS of MUSIC Battle of Evermore- First let me say I think you have the coolest name of all here in LL ! Maybe we are just programmed to act like the 12 signs we know though?..... If that could be used as an argument against our current zodiacal map, then as Ive read and studyed astrology more and more- it would have been the ones I observe who dont have a clue about the traits of there Sun sign or others that would be the least like theri sign or personal natal charts description's. Yet these peaple more then any other seem to fit their Sun traits more then alot of my freinds who do study and read up on astrology. To the T. Start with my ever debating father. He wont read a single book on astrology. He will argue and debate it to the teath. Even if it becomes evident even to himself that I just shot his debate into the water, and he is left theri feeling like a fool, he will still try and save face, and keep running his stuburn mouth. He,,,, is,,,, a,,,, Taurus. Neither Aries, Pisces, Gemini, or Cancer fit him and his personality what so ever. If he knew of astrology, and therefor studyied it and used it to learn how to keep his mouth shut when he hasnt researched what he is talking about what so ever,,,, then I and other peaple watching who dont know his birthday wouldnt be able to spot out his bull like resistance to budge, even when logic and truth have forced him to loose his arguments.Battle of EvermoreThanks And yes, that IS usually true.
What's Your Real Sign?13th constellation amuses astrologers and astronomers alike. by Oksana Koval, staff writer March 30, 2004 03:00 PM
Horoscopes and most astrology books list 12 zodiac signs, few people know that there are actually 13 signs. According to astronomers, Ophiuchus (November 30-December 17) is the one sign that has been ignored for thousands of years.
While Earth orbits around the sun, the sun appears in our sky in front of 13 groups of stars called constellations of the zodiac. People who were born during the time when the sun was in front of a certain constellation, get assigned their zodiac sign accordingly. Astrology books have identified 12 zodiac signs. But Ophiuchus, the 13th sign, was omitted.
“People might have known this for 4000 years," said Keith Waxman, an SF State astronomy teacher. “They may have ignored certain areas and divided the sky into 12 constellations and ignored Ophiuchus, even though they knew that the sun drifted through that area.”
The constellation’s borders have been established by astronomers since 1930, Waxman said. “There are really 13 regions of the sky. They are like states in the US," he explained. “The sign, which is Ophiuchus, really does exist in astronomy.”
But this is not all. The dates of the modern horoscopes and corresponding signs are off by about 21 days, astronomers say. This is because our planet wobbles around its axis and completes the loop in every 26,000 years. Every 78 years the Earth moves by a degree, which represents a day difference in the zodiac system.
“Each year the Earth is in a slightly different position in June,” said Waxman. This causes the sun to appear in front of a “slightly different amount of stars,” he added.
So why is this information not in astrology books and horoscopes? One answer is that modern astrology books still use an old system that the ancient Egyptians and Babylonians once used. But Waxman offers more explanations to the question of why the astrology information is not updated.
“Because it doesn’t matter,” said Waxman. He said he doesn’t believe that astrology dictates or predicts who you are. “If they add a new sign, people are going to be upset,” he added.
Another reason for omitting Ophiuchus is marketing, said Waxman. “If you change it all of a sudden, people might start buying less magazines, less horoscope booklets and people will lose money.”
Waxman, who believes in aliens and brings 4.5 billion-year-old meteorites to his class, breaks the news of 13 signs to his students every semester and receives mixed reactions.
“Most (students) think it’s funny,” he said. “Most are not that serious about their sign as far as letting it govern their life. But some are. Some people have had tears in their eyes when they read it.”
“I’m still me,” said Chris Colson, a 21-year-old psychology major who just found out that his real sign is Aries, not Taurus. But he wasn’t disturbed by the news because he doesn’t feel attached to his sign, he said.
Huckleberry Greenlee, 31, a SF State student enrolled in a masters program, thought she was a Scorprio. When she found out that her “real” sign is Virgo, she wasn’t bothered too much. “I think the whole system is pretty vague,” she said. “I don’t think it matters how you set it up with 12 or 13 signs.” But she did have plans on getting a Scorpio tattoo. These plans are now placed on hold, she said.
Check out how the new zodiac configuration affects the various signs.
Sign Old Dates New Dates Capricorn Dec. 23-Jan. 20 Jan. 9- Feb. 15 Aquarius Jan. 21-Feb. 19 Feb. 16-Mar. 11 Pisces Feb. 20-Mar. 20 Mar. 12-Apr. 18 Aries Mar. 21-Apr. 20 Apr. 19-May 13 Taurus Apr. 21-May 21 May 14-June 19 Gemini May 22-June 21 June 20-July 20 Cancer June 22-July 22 July 21-Aug. 9 Leo July 23-Aug. 21 Aug. 10-Sept. 15 Virgo Aug. 22-Sept. 23 Sept. 16-Oct. 30 Libra Sept. 24-Oct. 23 Oct. 31-Nov. 22 Scorpio Oct. 24-Nov. 22 Nov. 23-Nov. 29 Ophiuchus Not a Part of the Zodiac Nov. 30-Dec. 17 Sagittarius Nov. 23-Dec. 22 Dec. 18-Jan. 8
I was reading Love Signs by Linda, and she SO accurately portrayed my Taurus best friend I had to call him to find out his sign. Sure enough he IS a Taurus. This system would make him an Aries, and he acts nothing like any of the Aries I know.
Now it would logically follow that if there were a 13th sign that all of the information we currently assign to signs would have to be re-evaluated, and the descriptions would all have to be re-written. Can you imagine the new brash, arrogant Pisces with their new love of history and war? Yikes! I can't.
I'd love to read the book if anyone ever attempted to put the signs straight according to this theory.
Check out Graham Hancock's 'Fingerprints of the Gods'. Very scientifically minded, and not as exhuberant as Von Daniken.
------------------Gemini sun, Cancer rising, Taurus moon------------------------------I would fly to the moon and back...If you'll be my baby.
What constellation is there doesn't even matter, they're just guideposts. Perhaps astrology does need a makeover and needs to readjust, but are you gonna do it?
I tend to notice in people I know, that their sun doesn't really shine through in their personalities, but when I listen to them talk about their lives, it shines through like a direction they take. Kinda like a path illuminated for them. Hmm...From what I know about Pisces, I haven't been going down that path, and from what I know about Aries, I have been going down that path.
damn! i want to remain a sagittarius...
------------------Gemini sun, Cancer rising, Taurus moon--------------------------------------------------*I would fly to the moon and back...If you'll be my baby.
Besides the old callender and observations are still working.
Do the constelations not come back into a circle every so often, as stated above ? 26,000 years. Theres no way I can be the only one who has already thought of this anser to all this...
Time doesnt exist. Certainly not like most peaepl see it. The old zodiac still works because when it comes to it ,the time and original point of record still is happening at all the other moments of the 26,000 Earht years.
Similar idea aplies to Earths amount of minuits a day changing.
If our generations could live long enough Im sure we could learn to utilize the differnt backdrops of the constilations and other constelations into our current astrology. Maybe an astrologer will start this revolutioinizing by learning how to use the different aspects of Ophiuchus to the other already familiar 12 signs. I wonder if the average human mind owuld have a hard time concieving and obsorbing the further incite this would show beyond what even our best current astrologers can handle.
Here's another in the Free Astrology Course (you have to sign up to enter): http://www.linda-goodman.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=displayprivate&number=12&topic=000253
I really don't believe it. If it was meant to be, it would have been. Great men from long ago knew alot more about stars that most people today do, and they did it w/the naked eye.
Angela
------------------Scorpio/Leo/Leo
"All things are bound together. All things connect." Chief Seattle
its not that i dont understand where other people are coming from, but i really dont see how 'i dont want to be a taurus/aries/gem/scorp etc' is a valid excuse to deny soemthing. Some people dont really relate to their sun sign and thus discard astrology completely. I myself dont really relate to my sun sign (but I Dont to Taurus either, which Im supposed to be ) The point is, to refute the argument with a valid, logical argument, and not 'Coz I dont want it that wayyyy'.
LoveSG
quote:Promises - Empty promises, lying and exaggeration are commonplace among people today. What a difference, then, to find that the Bible is full of true promises - promises given by God, not empty, and given for those who sincerely seek to know God. These promises give us purpose, direction, strength and help. We WANT predictions, but we NEED promises. Examples: Psalm 145:18 The Lord is near to all who call upon him, to all who call upon him in truth. Luke 11:9 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. Philippians 4:19 My God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Read about more of the many hundreds of God's promises for living rich fulfilling meaningful lives.SO WHO CAN I TRUST?The heavens are there to declare the glory of God, not to tell us our future. Only God knows our future - He tells us that all the days planned for us were written in his book before one of them came to be. (Read Psalm 139 for more.) He tells us what we NEED to know, not what we WANT to know. So why not check your prospects with someone you CAN trust? Read on for what God has already revealed to us.
SO WHO CAN I TRUST?The heavens are there to declare the glory of God, not to tell us our future. Only God knows our future - He tells us that all the days planned for us were written in his book before one of them came to be. (Read Psalm 139 for more.) He tells us what we NEED to know, not what we WANT to know. So why not check your prospects with someone you CAN trust? Read on for what God has already revealed to us.
this guy seems like hes out to disprove astrology simply because in his/her mind it conflicts with the christian ideal he/she grew up with . maybe he/she should actually read about aspects, houses, risings and find out more about him/herself before jumping to judge astrology. Id like to know exactly what empirical evidence he has to prove that astrology is incorrect or wrong and only religion can tell us what is going to happen. so i should stop following my transits apparently and just read the Bible to see if I should date the Aries or the Aqua man right
if the guy wasnt so naive and plain silly it might even be blood boiling.
BESIDES the fact that he has a link at the very bottom of the page called 'how to avoid the TRAP of astrology/zodiac'
as if we're all weirdo astrologers out there zapping people with our mind numbing traps.
um.....yeah
This subject was easy for me to combat since its been on my mind for a long time now... And Im not about to let your typicaly mortaly ignorants und skeptics win this "masterdebation " that easily !
Besides,,, I realy dont think it was our particular species of human who originaly gave us the plotting, recording , and zodiac of hte stars views form Earth... I truly beleive what Sumerian tablets have claimed,,, that it was the two Annukia's known as ENKI and RAH [Father and son] who first recorded the heavenns views from Earths moon. Probably even before the Age of Leo . I have no doubt those two were already aware of simple things like how itme realy works , and how to fully utilize astrology---- no matter wich point in the UniVerse you view it from. After all- the both of them already knew how to use this ancient science and art on their own plannet, maybe more.
Little drunk here today !
2) The Dead Sea scrolls have page after page of Astrology charts of Jewish Leaders
3) The Kaballah teaches mysticism
Maybe we are just programmed to act like the 12 signs we know though?.....
If that could be used as an argument against our current zodiacal map, then as Ive read and studyed astrology more and more- it would have been the ones I observe who dont have a clue about the traits of there Sun sign or others that would be the least like theri sign or personal natal charts description's. Yet these peaple more then any other seem to fit their Sun traits more then alot of my freinds who do study and read up on astrology. To the T. Start with my ever debating father. He wont read a single book on astrology. He will argue and debate it to the teath. Even if it becomes evident even to himself that I just shot his debate into the water, and he is left theri feeling like a fool, he will still try and save face, and keep running his stuburn mouth. He,,,, is,,,, a,,,, Taurus. Neither Aries, Pisces, Gemini, or Cancer fit him and his personality what so ever. If he knew of astrology, and therefor studyied it and used it to learn how to keep his mouth shut when he hasnt researched what he is talking about what so ever,,,, then I and other peaple watching who dont know his birthday wouldnt be able to spot out his bull like resistance to budge, even when logic and truth have forced him to loose his arguments.
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