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T O P I C R E V I E WListensToTrees'Twas another thread which got me 'rambling'....i just wanted to share these words with You.Forgiveness is one of the most powerful and purest spiritual teachings. I feel. It has the power to transform everything. Just thinking, writing about it I can feel something magical happening in my heart.I don't believe that it is necessary to experience every good or bad thing we may have done to others. This feels like a false teaching to me. To do something good for someone in hope of gaining more points for oneself evades the truth....which is simply the spiritual knowledge inside...that we are all connected; to hurt another is really to hurt oneself.I believe, that to realize fully one day (perhaps in the after life, or here...it doesn't matter where)....exactly what they have done to hurt someone....to fully empathize with this person or animal or whoever....is punishment ENOUGH.I don't know if anyone has seen the film 'Powder'. It is a film about an albino boy, born with supernatural powers. He was raised in total isolation by his parents, until one day they died and he was taken away into the outside world, where this beautiful soul was ostracized by other teenagers at his school.Anyway, one of his powers was having total empathy. One day, he found a wounded deer, lying, dying on the ground. He knelt down, beside the deer, witnessed by others who were with him, his heart bleeding. The huntsman, who had shot the deer came forward. Placing one hand on the deer, and the other on the huntsman, he transferred everything the deer was feeling into the huntsman. The man freaked out and was never, ever able to lay a finger on his gun ever again.A similar thing happens at the end of the original 'The Crow' movie.The only real evil is ignorance itself. We are only blinded by our own amnesia....which is forgetting who we truly are. Whenever we hurt other beings, we cut ourselves off more and more from the spirit. It is fear and hatred that makes people sink deeper and deeper into forgetfulness. It is this illusion that we are all separate when we are not. The most evil people in the world are living their lives with their souls asleep. To feel like this must feel so NUMB!!!And yet, underneath it all, there is still some goodness in everyOne.Enigma: 'In every colour, there's the light, In every stone sleeps a crystal'.Yes, there is definetly something very powerful about the teaching of forgiveness and the one who came to teach this.And if people could only REAL-EYES the truth...this real Oneness which permeates all life....Then there would be no desire for anyone to ever be evil to another ever again.BlueRoamerWELL I'LL BE THE MOTHERLESS SON OF A GOATListensToTreesFeeling frivolous, BlueRoamer? Frivolry rocks. As Jim Carey said in 'Me, Myself and Irene': "Just 'cos I like to ROCK don't mean I'm made of STONE"!!! BlueRoamerWELL AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH LTT.WHAT DO THE TREES TELL YOU?THEY TELL ME TO BARKListensToTreesAre you making fun of me, BlueRoamer? BlueRoameryes, if that's how you perceived.Your perception is all that matters really, if you felt slighted it was real enough was it not? What do you feel my intention was?ListensToTreesI dunno really.....just felt a little malicious but perhaps I'm being over-sensitive.(Cool Angelina Jolie picture- edited for content of a swear word). Gemini Sun, Capricorn Ascendant, Libra Moon conjunct Pluto (Moon conjunct Pluto= lunatic) BlueRoamerIT WAS PROBABLY THE CAPS THAT MADE YOU FEEL THAT WAY.TYPING IN CAPS MAKES ME FEEL INSANE AND I LIKE ITListensToTreesWhat time is it where you are, BR? Are you drunk? ListensToTrees"Just 'cos I like to ROCK don't mean I'm made of STONE"- Jim Carey Neither are you, BlueRoamer...MADE OF STONE THAT IS...you're just pretending to be right now ListensToTreesQuote: WELL AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH LTT.WHAT DO THE TREES TELL YOU?THEY TELL ME TO BARK Haha. Bark. I get it (yeah, I did the first time).But actually, to answer your question....I rather prefer to HOWL ListensToTrees http://www.myspace.com/u2 The shackles are undoneThe bullets quit the gunThe heat that's in the sunWill keep us when there's noneThe rule has been disprovedThe stone it has been movedThe grave is now a grooveAll debts are removed, oohOh can't you see what love has done?Oh can't you see what love has done?Oh can't you see what love has done?What it's done to me?Love makes strange enemiesMakes love where love may pleasethe soul and its stripteaseHate brought to its kneesthe sky over our headwe can reach it from our bedyou let me in your heartAnd out of my head, head...Oh can't you see what love has done?Oh can't you see what love has done?Oh can't you see what love has done?What it's done to me?Oh, oh, oh, oh...Oh, oh, oh, oh...Please don't ever let me out of youI've got no shameoh no, oh noOh can't you see what love has done?Oh can't you see?Oh can't you see what love has done?What it's doing to me?(I know I hurt you and I made you cryDid everything but murder but you and IBut love left a window in the skiesAnd to love I rhapsodizeto every broken heartfor every heart that criesLove left a window in the skiesAnd to love I rhapsodize)-U2 WINDOW IN THE SKIESListensToTreeshttp://www.projectplaylist.com/musicsearch?searchfor= jeff+Buckley+new+year%27s+prayer&search.x=0&search.y=0&search=search Jeff Buckley- New Year's PrayerOooooo, Fall in light, fall in light. Fall in light, fall in lightFeel no shame for what you are (x5)As you now are in your bloodFall in lightFeel no shame for what you areFeel no shame for what you areFeel it as a water fallFall in light, oohFall in light, fall in light, Fall in light, oohFall in light, fall in light, fall in lightGrow in lightStand absolved behind your electric chair, dancingStand absolved behind your electric chair, dancingPast the sound within the soundPast the voice within the voiceLeave your officeRun past your funeralLeave your home, carLeave your pulpitJoin us in the streets where weJoin us in the streets where weDon’t belong, don’t belongYou and the starsThrowing lightOooooohFall, fallOooooohFall in light, fall in light. fall in lightOoooohFall in light, fall in light fall in lightGrow in lightListensToTrees"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.We ask ourselves, "Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?"Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God.Your playing small doesn't serve the world.There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so thatother people won't feel insecure around you.We are all meant to shine, as children do.We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone.And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously giveother people permission to do the same.As we're liberated from our own fear,our presence automatically liberates others."~by Marianne Williamsonin A Return to Love: Reflections On The Principles of A Course In Miracles,p. 165, HarperCollins, 1992BluemoonDON HENLEY lyrics - "The Heart Of The Matter" I got the call today, I didn't wanna hearBut I knew that it would comeAn old true friend of ours was talkin' on the phoneShe said you found someoneAnd I thought of all the bad luck,And the struggles we went throughAnd how I lost me and you lost youWhat are these voices outside love's open doorMake us throw off our contentmentAnd beg for something more?I'm learning to live without you nowBut I miss you sometimesThe more I know, the less I understandAll the things I thought I knew, I'm learning againI've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the MatterBut my will gets weakAnd my thoughts seem to scatterBut I think it's about forgivenessForgivenessEven if, even if you don't love me anymoreThese times are so uncertainThere's a yearning undefined...People filled with rageWe all need a little tendernessHow can love survive in such a graceless ageThe trust and self-assurance that can lead to happinessThey're the very things we kill, I guessPride and competition cannot fill these empty armsAnd the work I put between us,Doesn't keep me warmI'm learning to live without you nowBut I miss you, BabyThe more I know, the less I understandAll the things I thought I figured out, I have to learn againI've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the MatterBut everything changesAnd my friends seem to scatterBut I think it's about forgivenessForgivenessEven if, even if you don't love me anymoreThere are people in your life who've come and goneThey let you down and hurt your prideBetter put it all behind you; life goes onYou keep carrin' that anger, it'll eat you insideI've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the MatterBut my will gets weakAnd my thoughts seem to scatterBut I think it's about forgivenessForgivenessEven if, even if you don't love me anymoreI've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the MatterBecause the flesh will get weakAnd the ashes will scatterSo I'm thinkin' about forgivenessForgivenessEven if, even if you don't love me anymore Mirandee quote:Yes, there is definetly something very powerful about the teaching of forgiveness and the one who came to teach this.And if people could only REAL-EYES the truth...this real Oneness which permeates all life....Then there would be no desire for anyone to ever be evil to another ever again. I very much liked what you said here, LTT. You expressed it very well. Yes, Love and forgiveness are everything. Though I don't think that forgiveness necessarily has to happen immediately. Maybe the desire to forgive is immediate but depending on the circumstances and the hurt it might take awhile and I feel that is okay. As long as forgiveness is the final outcome it can take as long as necessary. I don't think that healing can begin though until we do forgive and let go. BR, I love your sense of humor but I feel that when someone is speaking from the soul and heart as LTT was doing on this thread it is not the time for flippant remarks. That is disrespectful. You can tell that LTT put much thought into this post. She deserves better than that. MirandeeBeautiful song, Bluemoon. Dulce LunaArrrghh, unfortunately forgiveness is sooo damn hard. It really is. Because its like just when you thought your had forgiven something and were over it, then the resentment and all the other bad feelings come back. That's why it takes me months and sometimes years to forgive when one hurts or betrays me really badly. And of course, it always depends on the person's intentions; ie. did they mean well? Were they just being thoughtless? Or did they have malicious intentions? Because I think it wouldn't take me long to get over the hurt if they meant well. But if they were being really thoughtless or malicious, that's where its hard for me to forgive. And even then, I know that forgiving doesn't always mean I have to be good friends with them again. Sometimes it just means that while I will distance myself from the person (usually for good), I don't harbor any bad feelings towards them. Because once the trust is broken, I'm not comfortable with the person again, so I have to cut myself off from them while trying to forgive them at the same time. Not easy.BlueRoamerOH MIRANDEE IF ONLY YOU KNEW BABYMY INSANITY MAKES ME UNABLE TO READ ANY POST LONGER THAN A FEW LINESIF I DO MY HEAD WILL EXPLODEEVERYTHING ILWL SAYS IS TRUE, FORGIVENESS IS A MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS AND IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL FORCES ON EARTH, SO I FORGIVE YOU FOR BEING IRRITATED AT MY APPARENT INSANITY AND FLIPPANCYListensToTreesThat's ok, BlueRoamer. I think we all need to remember not to always take ourselves too seriously, and to always keep a good sense of humor. You were here to remind me of this But, like Mirandee said, I was speaking so directly from the heart, even with my good sense of humour, I couldn't help but feel hurt slightly by your remark but I understand. I suggest you don't try to overwhelm yourself with something that exceeds your attention span. I too have a short attention span, when it comes to the years I wasted when I was younger trying to decide what I wanted to do for a career, etc, not wanting to be a slave to monontony or to feel like one of the 'Borg' So, in a way, I understand....but please try to understand others too ListensToTreesDulce Luna.... I know what you are saying. I have been betrayed. When I was a teenager, I forgave the girl who bullied me and became friends with her, but she assaulted me again, one evening, unexpectedly, in a group of 3, for NO other reason except pure spite- so I do understand betrayal.I think forgiveness means that you acknowledge inside we are all equal but some commit evil acts due to their ignorance. It is natural to take some Time to forgive the most evil of acts, maybe a life-time or more. But we are all capable of REDEEMING ourselves, no matter how evil some of us may be This is the real beauty of forgiveness.It does not mean that we should all be pacifists....though that is a complicated topic in itself....we should be strong and prevent all abusers from abusing, wherever possible....it is difficult to know whether Governments can be trusted when it comes to the question of joining an army Perhaps one day, the world will be more Pure.Those who abuse others should face the consequences of their actions and be prevented from being able to do it again. However, we should not HATE the actual SOUL of this person.This is what I am trying to say. Dulce LunaVery true, LTT.
Forgiveness is one of the most powerful and purest spiritual teachings. I feel. It has the power to transform everything. Just thinking, writing about it I can feel something magical happening in my heart.
I don't believe that it is necessary to experience every good or bad thing we may have done to others. This feels like a false teaching to me. To do something good for someone in hope of gaining more points for oneself evades the truth....which is simply the spiritual knowledge inside...that we are all connected; to hurt another is really to hurt oneself.
I believe, that to realize fully one day (perhaps in the after life, or here...it doesn't matter where)....exactly what they have done to hurt someone....to fully empathize with this person or animal or whoever....is punishment ENOUGH.
I don't know if anyone has seen the film 'Powder'. It is a film about an albino boy, born with supernatural powers. He was raised in total isolation by his parents, until one day they died and he was taken away into the outside world, where this beautiful soul was ostracized by other teenagers at his school.
Anyway, one of his powers was having total empathy. One day, he found a wounded deer, lying, dying on the ground. He knelt down, beside the deer, witnessed by others who were with him, his heart bleeding. The huntsman, who had shot the deer came forward. Placing one hand on the deer, and the other on the huntsman, he transferred everything the deer was feeling into the huntsman. The man freaked out and was never, ever able to lay a finger on his gun ever again.
A similar thing happens at the end of the original 'The Crow' movie.
The only real evil is ignorance itself. We are only blinded by our own amnesia....which is forgetting who we truly are. Whenever we hurt other beings, we cut ourselves off more and more from the spirit. It is fear and hatred that makes people sink deeper and deeper into forgetfulness. It is this illusion that we are all separate when we are not. The most evil people in the world are living their lives with their souls asleep. To feel like this must feel so NUMB!!!And yet, underneath it all, there is still some goodness in everyOne.
Enigma: 'In every colour, there's the light, In every stone sleeps a crystal'.
Yes, there is definetly something very powerful about the teaching of forgiveness and the one who came to teach this.And if people could only REAL-EYES the truth...this real Oneness which permeates all life....
Then there would be no desire for anyone to ever be evil to another ever again.
WHAT DO THE TREES TELL YOU?
THEY TELL ME TO BARK
Your perception is all that matters really, if you felt slighted it was real enough was it not? What do you feel my intention was?
(Cool Angelina Jolie picture- edited for content of a swear word).
Gemini Sun, Capricorn Ascendant, Libra Moon conjunct Pluto (Moon conjunct Pluto= lunatic)
TYPING IN CAPS MAKES ME FEEL INSANE AND I LIKE IT
Neither are you, BlueRoamer...MADE OF STONE THAT IS...you're just pretending to be right now
Haha. Bark. I get it (yeah, I did the first time).
But actually, to answer your question....I rather prefer to HOWL
The shackles are undoneThe bullets quit the gunThe heat that's in the sunWill keep us when there's none
The rule has been disprovedThe stone it has been movedThe grave is now a grooveAll debts are removed, ooh
Oh can't you see what love has done?Oh can't you see what love has done?Oh can't you see what love has done?What it's done to me?
Love makes strange enemiesMakes love where love may pleasethe soul and its stripteaseHate brought to its knees
the sky over our headwe can reach it from our bedyou let me in your heartAnd out of my head, head...
Oh, oh, oh, oh...Oh, oh, oh, oh...Please don't ever let me out of you
I've got no shameoh no, oh no
Oh can't you see what love has done?Oh can't you see?Oh can't you see what love has done?What it's doing to me?
(I know I hurt you and I made you cryDid everything but murder but you and IBut love left a window in the skiesAnd to love I rhapsodizeto every broken heartfor every heart that criesLove left a window in the skiesAnd to love I rhapsodize)
-U2 WINDOW IN THE SKIES
Jeff Buckley- New Year's Prayer
Oooooo, Fall in light, fall in light. Fall in light, fall in lightFeel no shame for what you are (x5)As you now are in your bloodFall in light
Feel no shame for what you areFeel no shame for what you areFeel it as a water fallFall in light, oohFall in light, fall in light, Fall in light, oohFall in light, fall in light, fall in lightGrow in light
Stand absolved behind your electric chair, dancingStand absolved behind your electric chair, dancingPast the sound within the soundPast the voice within the voice
Leave your officeRun past your funeralLeave your home, carLeave your pulpitJoin us in the streets where weJoin us in the streets where weDon’t belong, don’t belongYou and the starsThrowing light
OooooohFall, fallOooooohFall in light, fall in light. fall in lightOoooohFall in light, fall in light fall in lightGrow in light
~by Marianne Williamsonin A Return to Love: Reflections On The Principles of A Course In Miracles,p. 165, HarperCollins, 1992
I'm learning to live without you nowBut I miss you sometimesThe more I know, the less I understandAll the things I thought I knew, I'm learning againI've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the MatterBut my will gets weakAnd my thoughts seem to scatterBut I think it's about forgivenessForgivenessEven if, even if you don't love me anymore
These times are so uncertainThere's a yearning undefined...People filled with rageWe all need a little tendernessHow can love survive in such a graceless ageThe trust and self-assurance that can lead to happinessThey're the very things we kill, I guessPride and competition cannot fill these empty armsAnd the work I put between us,Doesn't keep me warm
I'm learning to live without you nowBut I miss you, BabyThe more I know, the less I understandAll the things I thought I figured out, I have to learn againI've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the MatterBut everything changesAnd my friends seem to scatterBut I think it's about forgivenessForgivenessEven if, even if you don't love me anymore
There are people in your life who've come and goneThey let you down and hurt your prideBetter put it all behind you; life goes onYou keep carrin' that anger, it'll eat you inside
I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the MatterBut my will gets weakAnd my thoughts seem to scatterBut I think it's about forgivenessForgivenessEven if, even if you don't love me anymore
I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the MatterBecause the flesh will get weakAnd the ashes will scatterSo I'm thinkin' about forgivenessForgivenessEven if, even if you don't love me anymore
quote:Yes, there is definetly something very powerful about the teaching of forgiveness and the one who came to teach this.And if people could only REAL-EYES the truth...this real Oneness which permeates all life....Then there would be no desire for anyone to ever be evil to another ever again.
I very much liked what you said here, LTT. You expressed it very well.
Yes, Love and forgiveness are everything. Though I don't think that forgiveness necessarily has to happen immediately. Maybe the desire to forgive is immediate but depending on the circumstances and the hurt it might take awhile and I feel that is okay. As long as forgiveness is the final outcome it can take as long as necessary.
I don't think that healing can begin though until we do forgive and let go.
BR, I love your sense of humor but I feel that when someone is speaking from the soul and heart as LTT was doing on this thread it is not the time for flippant remarks. That is disrespectful. You can tell that LTT put much thought into this post. She deserves better than that.
And of course, it always depends on the person's intentions; ie. did they mean well? Were they just being thoughtless? Or did they have malicious intentions? Because I think it wouldn't take me long to get over the hurt if they meant well. But if they were being really thoughtless or malicious, that's where its hard for me to forgive.
And even then, I know that forgiving doesn't always mean I have to be good friends with them again. Sometimes it just means that while I will distance myself from the person (usually for good), I don't harbor any bad feelings towards them. Because once the trust is broken, I'm not comfortable with the person again, so I have to cut myself off from them while trying to forgive them at the same time. Not easy.
MY INSANITY MAKES ME UNABLE TO READ ANY POST LONGER THAN A FEW LINES
IF I DO MY HEAD WILL EXPLODE
EVERYTHING ILWL SAYS IS TRUE, FORGIVENESS IS A MANIFESTATION OF CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS AND IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL FORCES ON EARTH, SO I FORGIVE YOU FOR BEING IRRITATED AT MY APPARENT INSANITY AND FLIPPANCY
I think forgiveness means that you acknowledge inside we are all equal but some commit evil acts due to their ignorance. It is natural to take some Time to forgive the most evil of acts, maybe a life-time or more. But we are all capable of REDEEMING ourselves, no matter how evil some of us may be This is the real beauty of forgiveness.
It does not mean that we should all be pacifists....though that is a complicated topic in itself....we should be strong and prevent all abusers from abusing, wherever possible....it is difficult to know whether Governments can be trusted when it comes to the question of joining an army Perhaps one day, the world will be more Pure.
Those who abuse others should face the consequences of their actions and be prevented from being able to do it again. However, we should not HATE the actual SOUL of this person.
This is what I am trying to say.
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