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T O P I C R E V I E WathenegoddessHave you ever thought about why the Lovers card is associated with Gemini in tarot but in Astrology Gemini is associated with Mercury? If tarot is correct, wouldn't Gemini be associated with Venus, since Venus represents love and that's what the Lovers card is about?Doesn't it make sense that Gemini is the Lovers because Gemini represents twins which to me is twin flames. And then the Magician is associated with Mercury and Aries in Tarot...I just noticed different associations to the planets in the tarot that is different from western astrology. CeridwenIt probably has to do with the esoteric rulers in astrology, where Venus indeed rules Gemini. http://www.mermaid-uk.net/Esotericrulerships.htm DaniPepper87athenegoddess, I learned that the Lovers isn't about love... but about choices... In some tarots, you have 3 people there, not only 2... the man needs to choose between 2 women... So that's the thing... Gemini is tha facet of woman/man, and I can associate with this...androgenous theory athenegoddess quote:Originally posted by DaniPepper87:athenegoddess, I learned that the Lovers isn't about love... but about choices... In some tarots, you have 3 people there, not only 2... the man needs to choose between 2 women... So that's the thing... Gemini is tha facet of woman/man, and I can associate with this...androgenous theory But love is the foundation of androgyny. Its opposites which are attracted to each other. If Gemini represents woman/man it still makes sense to me that is the Lovers card and what it represents.Plus the lovers card is number 6 which is what two people equate to numerology wise. 6 represents love.athenegoddess quote:Originally posted by Ceridwen:It probably has to do with the esoteric rulers in astrology, where Venus indeed rules Gemini. http://www.mermaid-uk.net/Esotericrulerships.htm That's what I thought and agree with it. I really like how Pluto is actually associated with Pisces since Pisces is the 12th and last sign. CeridwenThe lovers are about a choice, yes, but it is the choice for LOVE, not really for a lover. That is probably why the third one is not really a person, but an angel. Of course that is up to interpretation. This explanation always resonated most with me"You're presenting this as "either/or" (either it's "LOVE!"--with hearts, flowers and wedding bells) or it's "choices" which you seem to be taking as meaning a choice of what to wear in the morning ("Do I wear the red sweater or the green? Boots or tennis shoes?") It's NOT (Let me repeat that several times: it is not, it is not, IT IS NOT) either/or. Love IS choices. Even "LOVE" with hearts, flowers and wedding bells. You have to make choices to find love, get love, have it and keep it. Or you do really imagine that the "positive" version of the Lovers card means that you don't have to make a single choice? Not even choose to say "yes" when he asks if you want to marry him? History of the Card: originally it was called "The amorous one." Meaning, singular, "The Lover." A person who falls in love. And the picture was a guy with cupid and a woman. I.E. cupid deciding (choosing) who should love whom. Later on it was called "Love." Just that. Love. And it often pictured a man with two women--one woman the matchmaker (cupid again, only an Earthly version--choosing who should be with whom). Some of the images suggested a man picking between two women (making a choice). One pretty, one not, and the idea that "Love," true love, is not tricked by what is on the surface. It makes the right choice. And finally you get Waite with his weird Garden of Eden image and the angel. The idea being that Eve came from Adam, and the Angel represents that Gemini "twin-ship." Which is that the "soul" chooses that which it recognizes as belonging to it. It's missing part, it's other half. Hence, the "Love" card becomes the "Lovers" because the two must be together in order to complete each other.Thus the card is the *soul's* choice. What choice does your SOUL make. You see that puppy in the window and why must you have THAT puppy? There's a whole litter there, but only one puppy is YOURS. Why did you decide that? How did you make that choice? Your SOUL made that choice. And that is "love." The Soul's Choice. The card has always meant: knowing what is the "right" choice to make you feel whole, complete, fulfilled. But that doesn't mean it's going to be an easy choice. You ask, "Can't it be positive?" and Wind says, "Can't there be a card about Love?" that's positive? And I say, there is. The Lovers is it. It is about Love. And it can be very positive, as when you find that perfect puppy who will be your best friend forever. But positive DOES NOT MEAN SIMPLE. Which was Grizabella's astute observation. It doesn't mean you get to live happily ever after, the end, no problems, no issues, no complications. Your puppy will chew up your favorite shoes, will get sick and cause you grief, will need training, may growl at every man you bring home, and is going to be an issue when it comes to that new husband who will need to learn to get along with the dog as the dog needs to get along with him. And kids if you have them. Life isn't always negative. But it is complicated. Always. And LOVE--that choice which has you jumping into the deep end, maybe giving up all else and wading blind into an unexpected future, is the most complicated of all. It may be the most wonderful, most positive thing that ever happened, complete with hearts, roses and wedding bells. But that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Choices like this never are, and they wouldn't have any real meaning to them if they were. Yes? THAT is why the Lover's card is a card about choices. Not whether to wear boots or tennis shoes, but the hardest choices you make in life. The ones where your soul knows what it wants, but it's going to change everything if you go along with it. That's Love." http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=178403&page=2 DaniPepper87I was taught this way... there's 2 of cups to mean love and the deeper love as the 9 of cups. My teacher told us that's why he doesn't play rx in tarot: we have everything in the up side... if you'll have some kind of pain, the Universe will make you choose 3 of swords, and so on... You need to get into the stpry of the people who did the tarot. This person also associates the kaballah with tarot, maybe that's the thing... LeeLoo2014To me, the Lovers is the card of love and being in love, the Major Arcana for that, I don't think a Minor Arcana can "trump" that In terms of choices, it shows me a choice has already been made, in the heart, and the Querent must listen to their heart (even if they think they are undecided). It also shows a choice has already been made for them, if this is the spread.Thank you for the history of the Lovers, Ceri that was very nice.I think one side of the Gemini is finding your soulmate, so they fit this card, form this perspective.
If tarot is correct, wouldn't Gemini be associated with Venus, since Venus represents love and that's what the Lovers card is about?
Doesn't it make sense that Gemini is the Lovers because Gemini represents twins which to me is twin flames.
And then the Magician is associated with Mercury and Aries in Tarot...
I just noticed different associations to the planets in the tarot that is different from western astrology.
http://www.mermaid-uk.net/Esotericrulerships.htm
quote:Originally posted by DaniPepper87:athenegoddess, I learned that the Lovers isn't about love... but about choices... In some tarots, you have 3 people there, not only 2... the man needs to choose between 2 women... So that's the thing... Gemini is tha facet of woman/man, and I can associate with this...androgenous theory
But love is the foundation of androgyny. Its opposites which are attracted to each other. If Gemini represents woman/man it still makes sense to me that is the Lovers card and what it represents.
Plus the lovers card is number 6 which is what two people equate to numerology wise. 6 represents love.
quote:Originally posted by Ceridwen:It probably has to do with the esoteric rulers in astrology, where Venus indeed rules Gemini. http://www.mermaid-uk.net/Esotericrulerships.htm
That's what I thought and agree with it. I really like how Pluto is actually associated with Pisces since Pisces is the 12th and last sign.
This explanation always resonated most with me
"You're presenting this as "either/or" (either it's "LOVE!"--with hearts, flowers and wedding bells) or it's "choices" which you seem to be taking as meaning a choice of what to wear in the morning ("Do I wear the red sweater or the green? Boots or tennis shoes?") It's NOT (Let me repeat that several times: it is not, it is not, IT IS NOT) either/or. Love IS choices. Even "LOVE" with hearts, flowers and wedding bells. You have to make choices to find love, get love, have it and keep it. Or you do really imagine that the "positive" version of the Lovers card means that you don't have to make a single choice? Not even choose to say "yes" when he asks if you want to marry him?
History of the Card: originally it was called "The amorous one." Meaning, singular, "The Lover." A person who falls in love. And the picture was a guy with cupid and a woman. I.E. cupid deciding (choosing) who should love whom. Later on it was called "Love." Just that. Love. And it often pictured a man with two women--one woman the matchmaker (cupid again, only an Earthly version--choosing who should be with whom). Some of the images suggested a man picking between two women (making a choice). One pretty, one not, and the idea that "Love," true love, is not tricked by what is on the surface. It makes the right choice. And finally you get Waite with his weird Garden of Eden image and the angel. The idea being that Eve came from Adam, and the Angel represents that Gemini "twin-ship." Which is that the "soul" chooses that which it recognizes as belonging to it. It's missing part, it's other half. Hence, the "Love" card becomes the "Lovers" because the two must be together in order to complete each other.
Thus the card is the *soul's* choice. What choice does your SOUL make. You see that puppy in the window and why must you have THAT puppy? There's a whole litter there, but only one puppy is YOURS. Why did you decide that? How did you make that choice? Your SOUL made that choice.
And that is "love." The Soul's Choice. The card has always meant: knowing what is the "right" choice to make you feel whole, complete, fulfilled. But that doesn't mean it's going to be an easy choice. You ask, "Can't it be positive?" and Wind says, "Can't there be a card about Love?" that's positive? And I say, there is. The Lovers is it. It is about Love. And it can be very positive, as when you find that perfect puppy who will be your best friend forever. But positive DOES NOT MEAN SIMPLE. Which was Grizabella's astute observation. It doesn't mean you get to live happily ever after, the end, no problems, no issues, no complications. Your puppy will chew up your favorite shoes, will get sick and cause you grief, will need training, may growl at every man you bring home, and is going to be an issue when it comes to that new husband who will need to learn to get along with the dog as the dog needs to get along with him. And kids if you have them. Life isn't always negative. But it is complicated. Always. And LOVE--that choice which has you jumping into the deep end, maybe giving up all else and wading blind into an unexpected future, is the most complicated of all.
It may be the most wonderful, most positive thing that ever happened, complete with hearts, roses and wedding bells. But that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Choices like this never are, and they wouldn't have any real meaning to them if they were. Yes? THAT is why the Lover's card is a card about choices. Not whether to wear boots or tennis shoes, but the hardest choices you make in life. The ones where your soul knows what it wants, but it's going to change everything if you go along with it. That's Love." http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=178403&page=2
In terms of choices, it shows me a choice has already been made, in the heart, and the Querent must listen to their heart (even if they think they are undecided). It also shows a choice has already been made for them, if this is the spread.
Thank you for the history of the Lovers, Ceri that was very nice.
I think one side of the Gemini is finding your soulmate, so they fit this card, form this perspective.
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