posted April 07, 2005 02:42 AM            

So I had to decide which one to get and Liz's book was cool, but this one seemed a little more hopeful and less tragic. I'm in a cheery mood tonight.

Here's an excerpt:

Of all the general meanings of Saturn, probably the most important is that Saturn represents CONCENTRATED experience and learning which comes only through life in the physical body, in the material plane. Through the resistance of matter and through the pressure of being incarnate in the physical body, we have the opportunity for developing a greater level of concentrated understanding and greater patience in our attitude toward life itself. Saturn is often said to "rule" the dense material plane. When one incarnates into the physical world, the energy field is constricted and thus CONCENTRATED. That is why an earthly life is such a good learning experience, for here we learn through DEPTH of experience, concentrated work, and through seeing the immediate results of our actions. The pain, tension, and pressure of earthly life therefore has an evolutionary and developmental purpose. The material plane is, as the poet T.S. Eliot writes, the point of intersection of the timeless with the time. Saturn is the planet of time; and, through the Saturnian experience of living in the material world, where everything moves so slowly and where we have to work so hard to make anything happen or to grow in any way, one can make the greatest spiritual progress. It often seems to go too slowly, and our patience is tested at every point along the way, but persevering through the inert resistance of matter clearly shows us what is enduring and what isn't, where we meet the tests and where we fail. Saturn's action clearly shows us the cost of our desires and attachments; it starkly reveals the limitations of our ego; and it shows us that a highly concentrated consciousness and in-depth understanding are the main things we can take from this world when we leave it. It shows us the value of work, for all the wonderful beliefs and ideals ever thought of by human beings are of little value if they are not applied to everyday life through effort.

Saturn's pressure should therefore be taken as a helpful push toward doing the work that we need to do in order to develop at a deep level, rather than as something to dread and try to escape from.

posted April 07, 2005 02:56 AM            

Saturn's heat and pressure are needed on order that we can develop what Buddhists call the "diamond soul" or "diamond body," which is a way of saying our fundamental, innermost nature.

However, Saturn alone, without love and lightness, is rigidity and death.

When mental and emotional fixations and blockages result from the extreme expression of Saturn's principle, the negativity that builds up crowds out the true Love essence and energy of life, and the soul starves and withers since it then lacks the very water of life.

Hence, complementing Saturn is Jupiter (and--in some cases--Neptune). For we need not only effort (Saturn) but also grace (Jupiter/Neptune), not only immediate experience and reliance on proven facts (Saturn) but also faith (Jupiter/Neptune).

Effort and grace operate simultaneously; they are two sides of the same coin. Through effort one opens a channel through which grace may flow. Without one's making that effort, the grace doesn't readily come into the person's life.

However, it should be pointed out that an individual rarely makes any effort in the field of spiritual growth unless grace prompts him or her to do so. Hence, there is little grace without effort; but neither is there effort without grace.

posted April 07, 2005 03:03 AM            

If anyone wants an aspect or planet in house, let me know. Maybe Raaz? I can't seem to find natal Saturn in 10th house, but it has Saturn transits through the houses, so maybe saturn in the 10th transit is similar to natal....????

posted April 07, 2005 07:15 AM              

Thanx zoso so nice of you to ask

posted April 07, 2005 08:58 AM            

My own thinking is more in line with the contemplative mystics of all time, who will tell you that everything depends on grace (or the will of God), and grace depends on nothing.

If "faith without works is dead", it is only because works spring naturally from faith, like fruit from a tree, and, where there is no fruit, the tree is already dead. The tree does not die from its failure to produce fruit, and consequently, seed. Likewise, we do not lose faith, or fall from grace, due to our failure to make the effort to produce works. Rather, wherever faith lives, it inspires us to make the effort, and works come into being. But without faith, without the grace of God, to inspire us, it would not even occur to us to make the effort in the first place.

posted April 07, 2005 10:44 AM              

Would you be so kind as to give me a little blurb of that? Don't know how long it is, but if it's quite long, then just the highlights would be fine.

I've been looking for this book, but it doesn't seem to be on the shelf at any bookstore in my neck of the woods, and I'm not inclined to order it online.

posted April 07, 2005 09:48 PM            

Also, for that guy I'm interested in (you remember -- the "dark-haired man" your Answer Deck said would be in my future!), any of the following:
Saturn in Scorpio
Saturn trine Jupiter, Uranus and Venus
Saturn sextile Moon

posted April 09, 2005 12:47 AM            

This period can emphasis any or all of the following dimensions in life: financial, sexual-emotional, psychological, or spiritual. Since the 8th house is associated with Pluto and Scorpio, this period is particularly important as a time of terminating many old life-patterns and--through letting go of some intense desire or attachment--experiencing a kind of rebirth once this phase is completed. The need to discipline one's desires and to structure one's emotional attachments is usually made clear either by circumstances compelling you to face certain facts through the pressure of frustration or by your realizing within yourself the ultimate ramifications of your desires and how you have been using all forms of power: financial, sexual, emotional, occult, and spiritual. Many people experience this period as a time of deep suffering; the cause of which is difficult to pinpoint. Some people even describe it as feeling as though they were going through a hell or purgatory, in which their desires and attachments are being refined and their awareness of the deeper energies of life is being awakened. It is, in short, a time to face the ultimates of life, the core experiences which are so often ignored or neglected. Many people seems preoccupied with the essential realities of soul life, afterlife, and death itself during this period. It is a time to face the inexorable fact of death more realistically, and the awareness of the inevitability of death often prompts people to put energy into organizing their estates, joint finances, and wills. Other major financial dealings are also frequent at this time, but the common factor is that the individual is seeking to protect himself and often to establish some kind of “soul security” at the deepest level possible.

posted April 09, 2005 01:14 AM            

A. Saturn in the natal chart shows where you’re too attached and rigidly ego-centered, so that you try to control yourself in that area of life in too extreme a way; hence, you often react defensively in that area of life since you are tied up in a knot of negativity. Hence, one must experience some hard lessons in that area of life in order to wear down the walls of defensiveness and egocentric attitudes.

B. As one spiritual teacher has written, “Duty and responsibility (Saturn) is the dam that holds the mind in check.” Hence, that area of the chart wherein we find Saturn is an area where we experience specific karmic duties and responsibilities which serve to help us discipline our minds and desires. This discipline in turn helps us to begin to take responsibility for own actions, desires, and involvements in this area. The discipline may for a time be experienced as frustration or inhibition, but—as every counselor or psychotherapist should know—frustration may be therapeutic in that it throws the person back on himself, thus giving him the opportunity to develop an inner strength by drawing on his own deeper resources.

C. In the natal chart, Saturn symbolizes a point of great sensitivity , an area of life where one may strive to overcome limitation through a serious, thorough, efficient approach. (Or the person may react by building a wall around himself in that area of life for self-protection, thus insuring that a deepening negativity will develop over the years.) Saturn can indicate where feelings of inferiority, self-consciousness, or oppression afflict us, thus eventually causing resentment and bitterness if the challenges are not appropriately met. However, if one accepts the challenge of Saturn to work at building a new structure and set of attitudes in that area of life, then Saturn’s position can reveal where we can experience some of the deepest satisfaction in our entire lives.

D. Saturn’s position reveals gravity’s hold over you, where you find experience to be weighty and important, where you therefore often feel like working harder in order to establish security and stability. It is here that one must adjust to the practical necessities of life, in spite of any fear or anxiety that may be felt , by putting in extra effort and taking on extra responsibilities.

posted April 09, 2005 01:28 AM            

Arroyo goes over Saturn conjunct, square , or opposite Venus, but here is a blurb on “harmonious” aspects to planets:

posted April 09, 2005 01:48 AM            

Saturn conjunct, square, or opposite Moon or Sun

Often a fear of expressing what one truly is in very essential ways; fear of criticism or of being wrong or inadequate often leads to a fear of trying anything new. One must stabilize and structure one’s sense of self and one’s self-image in a new way, in the light of one’s current abilities, achievements, and strengths rather that in reference to past errors, faults, or limitations (i.e. one’s karmic inheritance). One must take responsibility for one’s self with new courage and learn to take some risks in self-expression and mode of life in order to realize most deeply what one is capable of doing or expressing. Projection of one’s fears onto others is a common manifestation of the opposition aspects.

Cardinal—Saturn here has to do with organization and utilization of one’s energies. A primary mode of active energy expression (either water, earth, air, or fire) tends to be blocked or held back, indicating the need to stabilize that type of self-expression and to work at developing that quality through effort.

Fixed—Saturn here is almost always indicative of strong willfulness and rigid habit patterns that block the flow of the love energy of life. Here, the expression of the essence of the life force, the innermost self, and one’s essential vitality must be restructured. There is often a lack of trust, and usually a lack of true givingness and love. This may of course be compensated for, but the tendency is present nevertheless. This may sound like a large generalization, but one only needs to ask oneself: “Have I ever met anyone who has Saturn in Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, or Aquarius who is truly a giving person, who is spontaneous in expressing affection, and who is flexible in meeting the needs of others?” Such people are rare indeed!

posted April 09, 2005 08:29 AM              

THANK YOU!!!

I do have saturn transiting 8th house at the moment. It is more than halfway throgh it now. I have always had questions about death. But recently I have been thinking of the emotinoal attachments. I have been evaluating my life in this regard. But I have not been depressed for a long time now. Big or little emotional downs are part of life I guess but no major depression as such for me.

posted April 10, 2005 07:03 PM            

I can appreciate this.......

quote:

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Often a fear of expressing what one truly is in very essential ways; fear of criticism or of being wrong or inadequate often leads to a fear of trying anything new.

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quote:

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if only you knew what's inside of me now, you wouldn't want to know me somehow

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If you want any Pluto (Stephen Forrest) or Uranus (John Townley) aspects, address me a thread and I'll copy them in for you!