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Author Topic:   What do you see it this chart?
LibraSparkle
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posted February 06, 2006 11:54 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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wilsontc
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posted February 06, 2006 05:21 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Libra,

You asked:

quote:
What do you see it this chart?

A fan. According to Tracy Marks' The Art of Astrological Chart Interpretation:
Fan pattern - "All planets but one (or two in close conjunction) are contained within the trine of a bundle pattern...[These one or two conjunct planets] is at least 60 degrees apart from the bundle area and opposes at least one of its planets...uses the handle planet...[(one or two conjunct planets)] as a source of support..."

So Pisces (spirituality) modifying Mars (being, also action) is the handle planet (as indicated below by Day), indicating a need to take spiritual action as a source of support for themselves.

Fanning out,

Tim

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astro junkie
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posted February 07, 2006 08:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe someone who is very creative ... do you know if they are?

------------------
... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness

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DayDreamer
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posted February 07, 2006 08:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A Fan you say...

quote:
FAN AND WHEELBARROW VARIATIONS: In taking Dr. Jones' work further, modern astrologers like Robert Carl Jansky and others have added these variations. The main body of planets in the patterns have the same criteria as in the bundle but there are one (FAN) or two (wheelbarrow) planets placed in the same way as a bucket handle. The planet/s outside the main grouping will act as conduits driving the configuration rather than as outlets as in the bucket. With this difference in mind, the main body of the pattern is interpreted in much the same way as a bundle chart.

http://web.ndak.net/~tarna/mysticrealms/astro/achart.html


Ok so Mars in Pisces "will act as a conduit driving the configuration rather than as an outlet as in the bucket"

MARS IN PISCES:

quote:
Mars in principle expresses initiative, drive, clear cut energy, outer ego-centred values and the "masculine' principles of extroverted action. It is the means by which ego achieves its desires. Masculine is not a word used in a gender sense, but in the sense of animus - describing activity that takes place in the conscious world. Hence Mars as a planet connects to the world around us, to direct action within that sphere.

The sign Pisces and Neptune its ruler, express passivity, reflectiveness, acceptance, inner feeling-centred values and the 'feminine' principles of introverted calm and stillness. Feminine too is not a word used in a gender sense but in the sense of anima - describing activity that takes place in the unconscious reaches of the psyche. Hence Neptune and Pisces connect to inner realms in the 'not-world', to indirect action within that sphere.

So how does the passage of Mars through the waters of Pisces express? As an archetypal drive, the planet is that which expresses its meaning but only does so in terms of the sign it occupies. How does Fiery Mars fulfill its mandate when held in check by the Watery depths? As the planet that urges us to act and achieve, how does it operate in a still calm atmosphere? Truth is, it doesn't because Pisces is not calm and still, it is a mutable force capable of great activity.

There is a tendency in western society to undervalue anything that is not overtly active and seen to be achieving, and archetypes such as Neptune tend to be assigned a lesser value because it does not 'appear' to contribute to success in materialized form in conscious life but is associated with altruism and idealism as though such motifs do not have their own 'drive'. Aptly, Neptune is the planet that is actually counterproductive to ego - if ego is overvalued. Mars is the planet that is counterproductive to Neptune - if altruism and idealism is overvalued. The principles of personal individuation are to find a way to meld and balance the extroverted ego with the introverted soul and we get no better example of contrasts that Mars in Pisces.

Neptune threatens the dynamic participating energy of Mars. Water puts out fire. At the same time fire makes water boil! Poseidon was a fierce water god. He created storms and perpetually invaded the land - constantly at war with Athena, the goddess of mind and intellect. As a chief water deity, he carries a trident, symbol of his power with which he used to shatter rocks, to call forth or subdue storms, to shake the shores, and undermine the land. His chariot is drawn by horses of his own creation with brazen hoofs and golden manes. They draw his chariot over the sea, which become smooth before him, while the monsters of the deep gambolled about his path.

Mars in Pisces suggests a conflict between outer and inner expression, but conflict is only another expression of relationship. Value judgments in the outside world might see Mars in Pisces as ineffective, unable to make its presence felt in a clear-cut way and all of this is perfectly valid astrologically. Note the bold text in the last paragraph. The turmoil becomes smooth before him. This could be taken two ways. Mars in this sign acts in a smoother, less challenging way, as it has the capacity to settle the waves before it makes it's appearance. So when it does appear, it is not in the guise of aggression, but as one that is preceded by feelings. Whether that appearance is accompanied by the hidden monsters of the deep, or invokes storms, is part of the package of surprise that comes with this energy.

In the expression of this placement in a native's chart, a substitute for 'initiative' might need to be found and this could manifest positively in subtle and astute ways for achieving one's own will of ego desires, or negatively in manipulative and deceptive way to achieve those ends. Not all people have to be leaders. Many are more effective in support roles. Many achieve much by first smoothing their own passage through life. The person with Mars in Pisces will often see his actions and initiatives dissolve, perhaps they are flooded by lack of resolve and staying power when the going gets rough. Often though, diverting onto another track will get them there in the end. Not all roads lead directly to Camelot - sometimes you have to take the byways. He might find it difficult to express anger and assertion in the right or acceptable tone but may erupt in a violent outburst when under pressure.

Fire attempting to emerge through water turns to steam, but this image is a useful one in that the 'age of steam' is what created the industrial revolution and initiated many social reforms. It took the common man into the world where he was no longer subservient to the Lord of the Manor, or local gentry! One of the most valuable attributes in this placement is that positive Mars energy is turned towards more artistic, poetic and spiritual matters. Ego is washed in the gestalt of Neptunian love - unconditionally - and so there is compassion surrounding Mars, and those blessed with this placement are often drawn into caring professions as they are drawn into artistic ones.

This position can create turmoil in daily living if one expects the Mars in Pisces native to express his drives dynamically, even clearly, because assertive and aggressive tendencies that come as part of Mars are often what gets one noticed. Witness our sporting fraternity! Anger and assertion, drive and initiative is tentative for the Mars in Pisces native, held back perhaps by fear, dissolved by feelings or simply because there is no identification of purpose in being aggressive.

Neptune can be subversive, undermining the structures of 'real life' in such a way that it becomes a powerful tool for reform. Mars adds a dynamic quality to this, so that one might find the person capable of and needing to make subtle approaches to expressing his Mars drives. He might work in hidden ways to get his own way, because over and above everything else Mars is about self will. And Neptune, no matter how we view it as nebulous, does drive a chariot. True, it is pulled by horses of his own invention, but it moves forward in preference to backward.

So as to achieve any higher sense of purpose or express 'Will' in the overt ego world - one would need to act in an oblique, none threatening way, and so the native needs to be diplomatic - sneakier, more convincing, and he does so because of his imaginative approach. This person is rarely aggressive for the sake of the 'kill' but his aggression can take on mammoth proportions in much the same way as the sea can boil with fury. Make no mistake, the smooth image that goes before has a Dionysian quality that sees him capable of furious and vengeful orgiastic rage - often turned towards him in addictive and escapist ways . Mars as the killer instinct is oftentimes not seen until it is too late. The shark kills its prey by sneaking up on it, not by making loud noises to announce its presence.

The myth of Dionysus explains how in his 'madness' he razed whole populations to the ground, saving only the women who became his slaves. In the same way Mars in Pisces can crusade against materialism and 'save' only that he deems of soul value. He is a torchbearer for truth and his can be a very active ‘evangelical’ quest. Given a strong purpose, one that is aligned with Neptune and its principles of sacrifice of ego for the common good, this person is as fierce in his convictions as any other Mars type. But his 'sacrifice' is driven by ego and a need to be recognized if only for martyrdom.

Ego is sensitized and 'touchy - even slightly paranoid. The outside opinions of the world of material achievement makes constant value judgments on the person and as a result he takes such value judgments to heart, deep into his feeling nature and find himself subverted by it. Yet such a person has more strength to resist than most. The mutable water sign Pisces is super strong in its perceived 'weakness' because it resonates to flexibility, moderation and the ability to flow with the tide.

Mars is about survival -it is instinctive and comes from a primeval root. In Pisces, survival (even after death) of spirit, is important so this person is given both opportunities for survival - that of the material and that of the spirit. He may be called a spiritual warrior, but his ability to shift shape and disappear when he needs to, gives him the most valuable tools to survive - instinct and intuition, sense impression and inner knowledge. Never underestimate this person for he is St George fighting dragons in defense of the fair maiden! Many of his battles are imaginary ones - his imagination if fired up and energized. He has an innate sense of his 'quest' and that quest is not often aligned with materialism. He may be Don Quixote tilting at windmills but the windmills are very real for him, the fight calling on bravery and 'knightly' effort and the final quest an honourable one. When he turns from fighting himself he finds his purpose.

Linda Reid

© 2003


http://www.panplanet.com/library/pisces_mars.html

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GemStar
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posted February 07, 2006 09:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Someone who is having a transiting Pluto square natal Venus transit....along with an upcoming tr. Uranus conjunct natal Mars....
Also..Chiron return....in the middle of his transiting Saturn opposed natal chiron (Heartbreak transit)...tr. Saturn also conjuncting natal Uranus....lots of things happening at once with this person!

Lately I am into transits so much I seem to check every chart for important ones!! You asked!!

GemStar

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GemStar
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posted February 07, 2006 09:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
double post-oopsies!

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LibraSparkle
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posted February 07, 2006 11:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The chart is Mahomoud Ahmadinejad's, Iran's president.

Tim,

Thanks for your input. I really doubt I would have seen that on my own.

Your fan,
LS

FANcy digging, DayDreamer

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4416
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 08, 2006 02:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yikes. Is mine similar, or no?

Mine are over four houses. His are over five. My opposition planet is Saturn in Gemini, though.

Is old man Saturn supporting me?

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wilsontc
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posted February 08, 2006 10:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AcousticGod,

Yes, this does look fan-like to me, although there is no trine between Moon and Jupiter as there would be in a "perfect" fan pattern. The proof is in the behavior of the person. Since your handle planet is Gemini (thinking, also writing) modifying Saturn (duty, also responsibility) focused in the 1rst house (being), do you have a need to write about people being personally responsible?

Fantastically,

Tim

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4416
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 08, 2006 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hear that everybody?

Be responsible!

AG has spoken...er, written!

Do I need the need to write about people being responsible? I don't think so. I can think of some examples where I have. Just yesterday I posted this rant:

quote:

This is true. I am moody moody moody. And certain people seem to set off that aspect of me all the time. Like my roommate may ask me what my plans are, and I'll get angry. I won't explode on him or be too much of a nuisance (because I know he believes it to be an innocent question), but I'll be vague or not answer. The reason for this, so you understand, is that I know the reason he asks me this type of question is because he wants to use me or my things, and it p!sses me off that he plans himself around me and my actions rather than taking care of himself by himself. I wish I had the grace and restraint to explain my disposition in these cases, but I don't and he's too simple to really take it to heart anyway. He never catches a clue/hint ever.

I also participate in the political forum here, which has a bit to do with responsibility. If I had a forum I wouldn't include politics, though.

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 08, 2006 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I notice a few similarities.

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Hexxie
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posted February 08, 2006 12:29 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I noticed that in the 1st chart there is only that 1 opposition between Mars and Jupiter (ok, there are really 2 if you count Uranus opposite Chiron, but i'm not lookin at that right now).

Only having 1 opposition could mean that this person either gets balanced out by, or (more likely) over-excited by outside events (transits) and/or people (whose natal planets oppose theirs).

I would even go as far as to say that if this person isn't so 'conscious' of the effect of the planets on oneself that this person might actually attract opposite type people. I think especially since Mars is involved that opposite peoples & competitions and stuff like that excite this person!

------------------
`Who are you?' said the Caterpillar. This was not an encouraging opening for a conversation. Alice replied, rather shyly, `I--I hardly know, sir, just at present-- at least I know who I WAS when I got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.'
~Lewis Carroll

:::Libra Sun / 29* Gemini Rising / Aquarius Moon:::

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DayDreamer
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posted February 08, 2006 09:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GemStar, seems like he has alot of important transits. What's a Chiron Return like?

I've got Mars opposite Jupiter too. (Only one if you ignore Saturn opp Moon ) But his looks like a very wide aspect...by 8 degrees.

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