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Author Topic:   Orbs in Synastry!
Venus De Milo
Knowflake

Posts: 267
From: the planet of love
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 18, 2007 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Venus De Milo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, I have always used very tight orbs in Synastry. 0 - 1 degrees for everything other than conjunctions which I go up to 5 degrees. Sometimes I'll entertain the idea of an aspect if it's a 2 degree orb, but not really.

Well... I belong to this other fitness forum and there's a guy on there that as soon as he started posting he caught my eye. He had no pics uploaded, there was just something about him and the tidbits of his life I caught... I instantly had a cyber crush on him and the overwhelming feeling of "ooooh! he is totally my type"... but I used to tell myself not to be silly and that he's probably fug, lol. I also used to purposely ignore him and not respond to any of his posts. This was my remedy for my "silliness"... lol. So this is all going back about 2 years now!

We've even snarked each other and been mean and sarcastic, and that's about the extent of the interaction, lol. So I used to think he didn't like me or my posts.

Well, recently we've started interacting more, and it's progressed to email flirting and exchanging pics. He's not a 10, but he's hot and there's something about him that makes me crazy with passion. And he's also said he thought I didn't like him, so he would be mean and snarky with me too. And he's also made the comment that I'm totally his type and that the attraction is really overpoweringly "primal".

So get this, I finagle his date of birth (but no time) and we really don't have that much going on... but... I have the Sun and Mars at 4 & 5 of Aquarius and he has Mars at 12 of Aquarius.

So... ORBS... I would have always thought that was out of orb and not counted it, but I KNOW we both feel it intensely. I felt it as soon as he started posting, that's always been my impression of him "omg, you are sooo my type!"... and thats the exact interp for Sun conjunct Mars in synastry.

So really.. whats the deal with orbs???

(NOTE: this guy is just an email flirtation, he's fun to email back and forth with and we have tons in common [great Mercury aspects!] but it's not anything I'm pursuing at all, either is he... I'm just really interested in the wide orb in our synastry that is so intensely felt... what could explain it?)

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted August 18, 2007 10:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your post made me smile.
That is probably the way I would have reacted to "remedy my silliness".

But concerning your question. I tend to think that maybe some of the wider orbed aspects are still felt, even though a bit weaker than exact aspects. But the way you described it, it seems you felt that Sun-Mars quite strongly.
So maybe you have similar connections?

Do both of you have Sun-Mars, Moon-Mars, Sun-Venus or Moon- Venus connections in your natal charts? Those would be complimentary and can be a sign of attraction, too.
By connection I mean various things: planetary aspects (preferably strong ones which excludes the sextile unless exact, quinkunx and all minor aspects), houseplacements like your Mars in 5th house would be similiar to a Sun-Mars-aspect, or the ruler of your 7th house in your 5th house (Venus-Sun).
So do you have anything of this?

Or does your Sun/Mars fall onto his Sun-Mars-midpoint? OR aspects it?
Does he have any personal planet (especially Sun, Venus, ASC, chartruler) on 3° - 6° Taurus, Leo, Scorpio or Aquarius? (those planets would trigger your Sun/Mars-mp).

Does his Mars fall into your 5th house? Or yours in his?
How about an aspect of Mars to the ascendant? Or Mars in the 1st house of the other one?

Or if nothing of this applies, maybe there had been a transiting planet on 8° aquarius, pulling these planets in your synastry together? Or do you have synastrically a planet on 8° Aquarius, which would be conjunct your Sun and Mars and his Mars, too? I believe, such a planet could act like a "transfering planet", making you feel this aspect, even though the orb is wide.
For example: There was someone I was quite crazy about; I could have sworn we had a Venus-Mars-conjunction. But it turned out his Venus was 9° from my Mars, much too wide to count as an aspect I guess. But still I felt it!
However, his Mercury fell onto 2° Sagittarius; and that Mercury was conjunct his own Venus (6°) and conjunct my Mars (3°), so I guess Mercury pulled our Venus and Mars together. And interestingly it was his voice I fell for instantly.

DD

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Venus De Milo
Knowflake

Posts: 267
From: the planet of love
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 18, 2007 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Venus De Milo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi DarkDreamer, you know, you pointed out some really interesting things to look at, so I did some more thorough investigating of our charts. To be honest, I've only looked over it very quickly to check for the "obvious" things.

So with midpoints, I did discover something interesting... my Pluto is exactly conjunct his Venus/Pluto midpoint! That would create a very sexual, primal attraction, I'd imagine... BUT... wouldn't he have that with everyone born in 78/79? I do think it does play a part though. Probably.

These are his planets in my houses:
Sun in 3rd House
Moon in 7th House
Mercury in 3rd House
Venus in 2nd House
Mars in 5th House
Jupiter in 1st house
Saturn in 7th House
Uranus in 1st House (exactly on ASC)
Neptune in 3rd House
Pluto in 12th House

Unless he was born really early in the morning, his Moon is in my 7th house. This also plays a big part I clash with male Aries Suns, but I have a thing for guys with other Aries placements, like the Moon and Venus. Also.. his Mars is in my 5th. Attraction! Sex! Hot Hot Hot! lol.

If he was born at 12 noon, his moon is exactly trine my Venus/Neptune conjunction... but I doubt it!

These are the synastry aspects with the orb in brackets:
Sun/Neptune sextile Mercury (2)
Moon? trine Venus/Neptune (0)
opposed Pluto (0)
Venus sextile Moon (2)
Mars conjunct Mars/Sun (6 & 7 degrees)
Jupiter square Mercury (2)
Saturn conjunct Chiron (2)
square Sun/Moon (1 & 2)
trine IC (1)
Pluto trine Mercury (0)
NN trine Uranus (2)
square Venus/Neptune (1)

Those are his planets making aspects to mine.

My Saturn is also exactly sextile his Venus. There is lots of Saturn aspects, eh?

Who knows whats going on with his angles, too???

Also, I was thinking... my Sun/Mars (4 & 5 of Aqua)conjunction is the focal point of my chart. Jupiter (3 of Leo) is opposed this conjunction... so it's a very strong planetary energy at work. So maybe a wider orb is felt on anything that touches this point in my chart?

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CoralFrequency
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Registered: Aug 2009

posted August 18, 2007 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CoralFrequency     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey, what degrees are your moons at?

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted August 18, 2007 04:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Venus de Milo,


well, you have some strong stuff there.


quote:
my Pluto is exactly conjunct his Venus/Pluto midpoint! That would create a very sexual, primal attraction, I'd imagine... BUT... wouldn't he have that with everyone born in 78/79?

On first glance the Venus/Pluto = Pluto sounds awesome, but I would agree, it`s a generational aspect.
With midpoints I usually only consider Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, ASC, MC and the Nodes.
But there is one exception to this rule for me, and that is, if a generational planet like Pluto is the ruler of ASC / DSC / MC / IC or 5th house (because then you have the Mars, Venus, Moon and Sun-houses in rulership). Maybe Pluto would even play a greater role if a person had personal planets in Scorpio, but I`m not totally sure about that. So, if he had a Scorpio-ascendant I would totally accept that midpoint as awesome.


quote:
Mars in 5th house

That is like a Mars-Sun-aspect! Actually even stronger, because the houses are connected to your exact birthtime.
Mars in the 5th house - jip, I can only imagine the energy, enthusiasm and passion that is aroused here.


quote:
so it's a very strong planetary energy at work. So maybe a wider orb is felt on anything that touches this point in my chart?

That could very well be. Also, I think maybe a 2° orb is too narrow. Sometimes you have to widen the orbs a bit to see the big picture.
Just imagine you cut everything at an orb of 2° and so you maybe don`t notice that with a 3° orb you would have a T-square with him. I definitely think if there are multiple planetary configurations, a wider orb is justified.
I don`t really know how wide I would allow. I`m still struggling with the orb-question myself, especially if it comes to the sextile.
Do I still count a sextile with 4°?
Well, maybe I could, since a transiting planet in the middle would activate both planet.
Example:
His Moon on 00° Scorpio, my Sun on 26° Sagittarius. Let`s say there was transiting Mars on 28° GEmini (it will happen in some weeks).
That transiting Mars would definitely be trine his Moon, and the opposition to my Sun would still be felt (even though it`s a separating aspect), so his Moon and my Sun would be activated at the same time, which makes me think that maybe this sextile is still effective.
Or maybe I`m just grasping. *sighs*

I hate orbs!!!!

DD


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Venus De Milo
Knowflake

Posts: 267
From: the planet of love
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 18, 2007 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Venus De Milo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Orbs are really confusing.

It's like, I don't want to be kidding myself and reaching to convince myself it's something it is not, but then, if I feel it so overwhelmingly and it's so wide, then it calls into question all this strict narrow orb business I've practised with every other analysis I've done.

Like the Pisces Psycho. All the aspects I have with him that I mention are 0 - 1. If I open the orb up to 2 or 3, there are EVEN MORE aspects, and I just thought that was too crazy, you know? The only one I thought we felt, but maybe I was "reaching" that comes to mind is a Sun/Moon sextile. My Moon at 10 Cap, his Sun at 8 of Pisces. Hhhhmmm. Who knows. Also, my Venus/Neptune conjunction is at 19 of Sag and his Sun/Moon midpoint is at 16.5 of Sag and he has Karma at 16 of Gemini. So I've always been confused about whether I should count that conjunction. I definitely count the opposition with Karma, but a conjunction to the Sun/Moon midpoint should be more strict, no?

Or maybe with all that synastric activity between 16 - 19 of Sag, it is deeply felt anyway? Is it another "focal" point? *confused*

Also, what you said about Pluto... he is heavily Scorpionic. He has a Sun/Neptune conjunction at 28 of Scorpio. Mercury is also conjunct at a critical degree at 0 Sag. He has Venus in Scorpio too, sextile my Moon... depending on his birthtime, it's either a 1 - 2 degree orb.

Coral Frequency, hey... my Moon is at 10 of Capricorn... his is somewhere between 13 - 25 of Aries. A noon birthtime puts it at 19 of Aries... which perfectly trines my Venus/Neptune conjunction. That would be big if that were the case. Double whammy Venus/Moon aspect, yikes!!!

My ex-husband was an Aries Moon... they are so emotionally petulant, it's exhausting, lol But what I do like about them is their honesty. You never have to guess what is going on in their minds and hearts. That's a wonderful thing.

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted August 19, 2007 08:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Venus de Milo,

quote:
It's like, I don't want to be kidding myself and reaching to convince myself it's something it is not

I know what you mean. But I think 2° orbs are definitely felt!
I actually think orbs up to 3° are felt in any case; conjunctions may be felt up to 5° in any case. Well, I guess there must be a reason most astrologers prefer a 3° - 5° orb in synastry.
Of course a solar ecclipse, which is a kind of fullmoon, only lasts 3,5 hours - only then it would be exact.
Well, if you transfer this to a chart, this would be an 1° orb, which is defined as "exact aspect", but an author once wrote that a fullmoon approximately lasts for 12 hours (then the moon still is perfectly round), which would make for an orb of 6°.
3° applying, 3° seperating. So I think, we are perfectly fine with a 3° orb.
I still would consider conjunctions with a 5° orb, just because they are so important.

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted August 19, 2007 08:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
aching" that comes to mind is a Sun/Moon sextile. My Moon at 10 Cap, his Sun at 8 of Pisces.

I`d still count this one.
But even though this is a sexile, it`s the combination of cardinal Earth / Saturn and movable water / Neptune; I donīt think sextiles between Pisces and Capricorn are as easy going as they make you believe; they are absolutely different from a sextile that may be between Leo and Libra - Sun and Venus, they definitely get better along than SAturn and Neptune. Pisces and Capricorn are very different signs in my opinion. That doesn`t mean there is nothing good in here, actually the opposite; your Capricorn Moon could give some security, stability to his "flowing self", while hse could have taught you to waste a little bit time with daydreaming. But of course there are other aspects to be taken into account, too.


[quote] Hhhhmmm. Who knows. Also, my Venus/Neptune conjunction is at 19 of Sag and his Sun/Moon midpoint is at 16.5 of Sag and he has Karma at 16 of Gemini.[/]
Oh wow, then he has got his karma exactly my Karma. But I am not a Psyche, am I? lol
His Sun/Moon mp opposite your Karma definitely counts.
I`m also inclined to count your Venus/Neptune opposite his Karma, even though it`s over 3°, but oppositions are strong aspects; I feel with the dynamic aspects maybe wider orbs are justified. ?
But for midpoints I actually would limit the orb strictly to 2°, and I am very generous with that, too; some only use 1° orb.

And you got to love those Aries-Moons, my best friend has an Aries-moon and I think that is the reason we get along so well. She has much Cancer-Libra-action otherwise, and this ARies-Moon is just her saviour, and I like how direct she can sometimes be. Never in public. Only with me or other people she really trusts, which comes down to her husband and me, I fear. *sighs* She didn`t have it all that easy. But she`s a fighter with that ARies-Moon opposite her Pluto and Mars, which in turn conjunct her Venus.

DD

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted August 19, 2007 10:50 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just remembered something.

Some years ago I used to give different aspects and orbs some points to classify the most important ones.

Something like:

Conjunction: 5 points
Opposition: 4 points
Square: 3 points
Trine: 2 points
SExtile: 1 points
Quinkunx: 0 point (only important, if close orbed)

0° - 1°: 5 points
1° - 2°: 4 points
2°-3°: 3 points
3°-4°: 2 points
4° - 5°: 1 points


And then I would look at the aspects; for example:

let`s say there was
Sun conjunct Venus with 1,5° orb
Sun square Pluto with 0,5° orb
Sun sextile Moon with 2,5° orb

Then my "points" would add up to:

Sun conjunct Venus: 9 points
(of 10 possible; that makes for about 90% strength)

Sun square pluto: 8 points (80% strength)

Sun sextile Moon: 4 points (40% strength)


WEll, the result is as we would have expected, conjunction , square, sextile.


But another example could be:

Sun sextile Moon with 0° orb
Venus opposite Uranus with 2,5° orb
Venus trine Pluto with 2,5° orb
Moon conjunct Southern Node with 1° orb


Sun sextile Moon: 6 points (60%)
Venus opposite Uranus: 7 points /70%)
Venus trine Pluto: 5 points (50%)
Moon conjunct SN: 9 points (90%)

So, in this case the Sun sextile Moon would actually be more significant than the Venus-Pluto-trine due to its exactness; but you can also see that the opposition of VEnus and Uranus would be stronger than the exact sextile of Sun and Moon, because of the strength of the aspect itself.

WEll, I did that to see the really important aspects, so I couldn`t fool myself anylonger by that wonderful Moon - Venus-conjunction of 7°, while completely ignoring the exact Mars-Saturn-square, which would have been much stronger in effect. It was just a way to discipline myself.

I think I even made categories of strength according to the percentages like:

00% - 20%: (maybe a trine with 3,5°)
20% - 40%: (maybe a sextile with 2,5°)
40% - 60%: (maybe an exact quinkunx)
60% - 80%: (maybe a square with 1,5°)
80% - 100% (maybe a conjunction of 1,5°).

Everything above 50% I would have considered as definitely "noteable", everything over 70% I would have considered very strong. like in: I can`t help myself.

00% - 20%: very weak
20% - 40%: weak
40% - 60%: average
60% - 80%: strong
80% - 100%: very strong

Of course it means, there are only little aspects that can be classified as "very strong": conjunction with 3° orb; opposition with 2° orb; an exact square. Sextiles and quinkunxes could never even come close to that category, which would fit the general idea that those are weaker aspects, I guess.

I don`t know sometimes I have fun with such "categorizing games".
Maybe I will apply this again to my synastries.

Hmm, let`s see there is a venus-Mars-conjunction of 3,5°. Would that still be in effect? Well, it would have 70%, not too bad.
But the exact Mars-Pluto-square might be stronger: 80%.

And that 4° Moon-Sun-sextile I want so much? 30% - I think we can drop it.


So, in your case that Sun-Mars-conjunction of 7°; mmh 7° are out of my categories, maybe I should give minus-points?
So, it would be 2 minuspoints?
Conjunction would have 5 points, so the result would be about 30%. It`s still there, but shouldn`t be felt that strong.
That`s the problem with such categories; life never completely fits in there.
But they are a guideline to see where the focus lies. And I actually think his Mars in your 5th house is definitely more focus than the weak conjunction.
However, maybe I should make a system, in which I can weigh aspects, houseoverlays, natal signs, houses and aspects.
Or I could just drop it now. lol

DD

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Venus De Milo
Knowflake

Posts: 267
From: the planet of love
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 21, 2007 01:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Venus De Milo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
actually think orbs up to 3° are felt in any case; conjunctions may be felt up to 5° in any case. Well, I guess there must be a reason most astrologers prefer a 3° - 5° orb in synastry.
Of course a solar ecclipse, which is a kind of fullmoon, only lasts 3,5 hours - only then it would be exact.

that is a fantastic point!

about the sun-moon sextile, i would tend to agree. i had that aspect with my ex-husband also, except i was the sun and it was between aquarius/aries... it was much more... expressive and open. so much less inhibited.

omg... lol... me and the guy i originally wrote about from the fitness board have been snarking each other all day on the public forum as we usually do, but sending flirty messages simultaneously via email, lol.

but... um... back to the cap-pisces sextile... we were both somewhat more reserved and restrained, since he had a virgo moon... MUCH easier to deal with for me and more natural than dealing with an aries moon's emotional shenanigans!!! lol... or so it seems. at least you always know what the lunar aries is thinking.

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stpahd
Newflake

Posts: 13
From: vancouver, wa usa
Registered: Jul 2019

posted October 21, 2020 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for stpahd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is there a program like astro dot com that formulates all these midpoints automatically? I don't have my own software, the math formulations are too hard lol and I just want it to pop up! Hahahaha

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 132864
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 21, 2020 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome!

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Hikaru29
Knowflake

Posts: 2860
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018

posted October 22, 2020 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stpahd:
Is there a program like astro dot com that formulates all these midpoints automatically? I don't have my own software, the math formulations are too hard lol and I just want it to pop up! Hahahaha

Try astro-seek.com

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 132864
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 22, 2020 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moving this to Interpersonal Astrology.

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