posted January 18, 2012 06:47 AM            

I've gotten to the point in my life where I've come to take it for granted that, no matter how soft-spoken or not-sterotypically masculine a man is, he wants to be The Hero to his partner. When he makes her smile or she shows pride and trust in him, he glows. When she is saddened or disappointed, he's crushed a little bit on the inside.

..but then I realized that my long-term relationships have been primarily with men with masculine Suns. My husband, in particular, embodies this with a Gemini Sun, Saggi Moon, and Mars and Venus conj in Aries. Now, not many would count him as a "manly man" by our society's standards (he's seriously studied art and music, has a Master's in Lit, and describes himself as a feminist), but (to me, anyway) he's masculine in all the best, frankly "classic" ways (he's protective of those he loves - yeah, my Pisces Sun eats that up -; can be assertive and passionate in the defense of ideas; and is a devoted, doting, and caring husband and father).
...so I could be operating under a false assumption.

My questions:

In heterosexual relationships, do men in general manifest the desire to be The Hero to their partner?
If not, would you link that desire to masculine Sun, Moon, and/or Mars placements?
If so, would you constrain it to one culture or cultral tradition, or would you say it spans humanity?

Also, if so, (if you have any insight or experience) does this tendency play out in homosexual relationships?

posted January 19, 2012 09:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
There is no perfect relationship, but if a woman understands how a man needs to feel like a man...and not be belittled or have his masculinity stripped away...then that man would be hard-pressed to stray.

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posted January 19, 2012 11:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Yes. It's true. We can't all save the world. We can't all be 007. But all we need is to be a hero to the one we love. And that doesn't mean it has to be something big. Inside every woman is a Princess. Inside every man is a Knight.

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Thank you for your feedback, Randall!
Most of my friends are guys, too, and they almost all are crushed when their love doesn't honor this. I was cautious of selection bias, though, because most of my friends are also pretty geeky (a population subset which I've noticed tends to have, perhaps surprisingly, old-fashioned and genteel romantic ideals).

posted January 19, 2012 01:22 PM            

BUT...

HOW do you honor that in a guy? My chart is nothing but masculine energy. I have a problem letting the guy be the hero.

posted January 19, 2012 04:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anongrl10:
Strength of character means the world to me.
That man is my hero regardless of how he's expressing this energy. I think it's a bit more complicated than feminine-masculine signs. Getting to know the other person well helps.

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I think that some of it may be that not everyone needs to be a "hero" in the same way. It can be the sum of myriad small things, the little ways in which he shows appreciation for you.

Someone doesn't necessarily have to have a dominating personality to be heroic - ...and I was going to write more, but I'll be off of the computer for a bit. TBC.

posted January 19, 2012 05:21 PM            

quote:

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A woman can be strong and fiercely independent and still lay her head on her man's shoulders or chest and wrap her arms around his...and small gestures like this make us feel like we are heroes--if only to her, and if she is the one we love, then that's enough.

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Damn right! 'Nough said!

posted January 19, 2012 05:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Yes. It's true. We can't all save the world. We can't all be 007. But all we need is to be a hero to the one we love. And that doesn't mean it has to be something big. Inside every woman is a Princess. Inside every man is a Knight. There is no perfect relationship, but if a woman understands how a man needs to feel like a man...and not be belittled or have his masculinity stripped away...then that man would be hard-pressed to stray.

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It's interesting that you say that, because I was imagining/daydreaming early this morning about what it would be like to be married to someone whom I loved, and I had the exact thought verbatim that "He would be my lord, and I would be his lady" ("lord" in the 'knight' sense, not the "God" sense). I like the idea of being a sort of 'maiden' that the knight would want to impress and whose devotion he would like to earn. I would also like too to be seen as a wise companion--as the sort of "lady" who is good counsel to her knight. I would want to be a "lady" who isn't just the trophy kind of lady, but who is truly valued and cherished.

And for my part, I would want my 'knight' to be someone of whom I could be proud. He needn't slay dragons, but a man (or woman, for that matter) who has that rare and beautiful balance of strength and softness, of bravery and chivalry, is someone to be admired.

posted January 19, 2012 05:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Real men are not intimidated by strong women; in fact, they seek them out. It's more about femininity than being docile. The masculine and feminine complement each other, and there's nothing wrong with women having strong energy and men being in touch with their emotions (as long as it's not extreme). No woman would be okay with a man crying all the time. lol A strong man who can be leaned on (at times any woman might need this--no matter how strong she is) can make a woman feel comfortable in her skin and exude her internal femininity to complement the strength her man presents. A woman should (at least some of the time) feel like a beautiful Princess--and she should know that that's the way her man (her Knight) sincerely and genuinely views her. A woman can be strong and fiercely independent and still lay her head on her man's shoulders or chest and wrap her arms around his...and small gestures like this make us feel like we are heroes--if only to her, and if she is the one we love, then that's enough.

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posted January 19, 2012 05:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
It's interesting that you say that, because I was imagining/daydreaming early this morning about what it would be like to be married to someone whom I loved, and I had the exact thought verbatim that "He would be my lord, and I would be his lady" ("lord" in the 'knight' sense, not the "God" sense). I like the idea of being a sort of 'maiden' that the knight would want to impress and whose devotion he would like to earn. I would also like too to be seen as a wise companion--as the sort of "lady" who is good counsel to her knight. I would want to be a "lady" who isn't just the trophy kind of lady, but who is truly valued and cherished.

And for my part, I would want my 'knight' to be someone of whom I could be proud. He needn't slay dragons, but a man (or woman, for that matter) who has that rare and beautiful balance of strength and softness, of bravery and chivalry, is someone to be admired.

In all honesty, I think that it's sweet and endearing when a guy is protective (without being controlling) and when he likes to be a hero. It's important, of course, that it not get out of hand or go too far, but I would find it comforting if a man whom I loved wanted to be a hero for me and really wanted to earn my respect. At the same time, I'd also want a man who was with me to feel like he could be vulnerable if he needed to or that he could show his softer, more tender side without fear of ridicule, in private moments.

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Nicely put, Regardes!

You guys are giving words to fairy-tales!

Every time I looked for someone like that I got disappointed in the end. In real life, it doesn't work this way 24/7. There will be mundane problems to deal with, the lack of romanticism in the daily routine, a million people getting between you two, etc etc. Real life is a bit more complicated than the fairy-tale.

posted January 19, 2012 05:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anongrl10:

Nicely put, Regardes!

You guys are giving words to fairy-tales!

Every time I looked for someone like that I got disappointed in the end. In real life, it doesn't work this way 24/7. There will be mundane problems to deal with, the lack of romanticism in the daily routine, a million people getting between you two, etc etc. Real life is a bit more complicated than the fairy-tale.

I guess in the end it's up to us both (in a couple) to keep the balance right.

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ha...well, for some reason--I don't really understand why--but I've been feeling very "lovey" today. As in, feeling very loving--not just romantically (though that way too; not to any particular person except in general, or maybe to the dream person who exists only in my head), but spiritually and just in general towards people around me today.

Real life is more complicated than fairy tales (or at least it can be), but I do think that love is a magic in and of itself, and that it really does have a power, just like some fairytale characters do in stories. A really beautiful love will certainly have to deal with the mundane, but the moments when it reaches the sublime and lives in it, to me, is a real kind of magic and pure beauty. Those moments can't last forever, just like Cinderella's spell that makes her a princess for a night can't last past midnight. We all have to turn back into pumpkins, this is true. But, there's nothing to say that we can't ever experience those moments again, or that they aren't true or real when they do happen, or that their brevity makes them any less beautiful.

posted January 19, 2012 07:05 PM            

I'd like to add that a shout-out to the everyday, though:

My husband IMd me while I was at work. He'd picked up the girls and was home. I asked if the dinner I had started this morning smelled good. When he said that it did, I added, "I'm thinking biscuits and a salad with it."

After his own difficult 10-hour work day, he rushed to finish the dinner before I got home. He'd never made biscuits before, but he knew that he wanted to make me happy - to be my hero in whatever way he could this evening. They finished just as I walked in the door. He hugged me and gave me a kiss, and I thanked him for all of his hard work.
Because, you know what? He's awesome and deserves to hear it as often as possible.

He makes me feel like his Queen in myriad meaningful ways each and every day.

posted January 19, 2012 10:22 PM            

Y'all make this single girl willing to try it on for size... I was never cynical but I was always super-cautious because I do tend to believe in fairy-tales and good men and all that -only to fall on my face one time too many.

posted January 20, 2012 04:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mockingbird:
to everything Randall said

I'd like to add that a shout-out to the everyday, though:

My husband IMd me while I was at work. He'd picked up the girls and was home. I asked if the dinner I had started this morning smelled good. When he said that it did, I added, "I'm thinking biscuits and a salad with it."

After his own difficult 10-hour work day, he rushed to finish the dinner before I got home. He'd never made biscuits before, but he knew that he wanted to make me happy - to be my hero in whatever way he could this evening. They finished just as I walked in the door. He hugged me and gave me a kiss, and I thanked him for all of his hard work.
Because, you know what? He's awesome and deserves to hear it as often as possible.

He makes me feel like his Queen in myriad meaningful ways each and every day.

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awww that is so sweet

posted January 20, 2012 09:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Yin:
I would love to let a man be my hero. In fact, that is really what I want. According to Linda a Saggie woman secretly dreams of a man who will stop her in her tracks and not let her walk all over him.

BUT...

HOW do you honor that in a guy? My chart is nothing but masculine energy. I have a problem letting the guy be the hero.

I have a very assertive Mars in Leo trine my Sun, Air Moon and Rising and a Saggie Venus. I'm direct, go for the goods (whatever they may be) and don't like to waste time to sit around and wait for someone to make the first move. It's hurt me badly in the long run because the men I attract and am attracted to are usually feminine Suns who use the back-around approach and I'm assuming ULTIMATELY want to be heroes. I just don't let them so the resentment slowly builds up on both ends and then nobody gets what they want.

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don't sag suns make guys feel like they're superman coz of their enthusiasm?

i am mostly feminine signs too but i need someone i won't walk all over as well according to my sun opposite mars aspect.

posted January 20, 2012 10:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sand:
don't sag suns make guys feel like they're superman coz of their enthusiasm?

i am mostly feminine signs too but i need someone i won't walk all over as well according to my sun opposite mars aspect.

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posted January 21, 2012 11:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Relationships are complicated. There are many variables that can lead to success or failure. It's certainly not a cure-all, but I believe that a woman should be kissed correctly and often.

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posted January 22, 2012 12:36 AM            

Tried as i mightve....i couldnt get over it (even though especially one of them, had a great mind and heart) and i found that i couldnt be with a guy who i felt like I could beat up :O ....or if we were in a threatening situation....I wouldve been the one who had to do the protecting and fighting for us.

I don't know how i ended up in those relationships because in some ways they were the "knights in shining armor".....but in reality......well.....

also, usually a guy who says he can kiss good or correctly is wrong....ive learned that more often than not.

That also comes down to many variables and chemistry. One person's greatest kiss might not be another's most terrible.

Mockingbird, sounds like youve got yourself a real man.

I've never felt a strong need to be treated like that whole princess....white wedding dream.... thing, but in a way, yes.....we all like or want that. Just differently....and that is what makes relationships great. When you find another and you find you fit each other's uniquness perfectly.

posted January 22, 2012 12:51 AM            

if it came down to it.....mightve been a close match.