posted September 27, 2009 12:29 PM            

...men are created different; they lose their social freedom and their individual autonomy in seeking to become like each other - David Riesman

What is a "Relationship?"

Is it: Dependency under another name? Insecurity under another name? Vampirism under another name? I'm empty and I need you. You're empty and you need me!...(often called "Falling in Love")

Christians were told marriage was an alternative to damnation. Better to marry than burn! Fear paves the way.

Relationships!
The bane of the Piscean Age, and on its way out. Are you ready?

Another question you may want to be asking yourself today and for the rest of your lives...

WHAT IS IT THAT OTHERS MAKE ME FEEL THAT I NEED FROM THEM?

We always know what it is that we need from others. We often know quickly what others want from us. But finding out what it is that others may subtly make us feel we require from them (and which eventually makes us dependent upon them) is not so obvious. Love is not part of a transaction. It is the most PRIVATE thing there is or can be, in the full sense of that word. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, and don't continue deluding yourself. Forget what the priests have said, and mummy and daddy, and all those without a clue who, in their egregious error, have made the world what it is today. You won't get it from the girl or the boy, the man or the woman, or from Jesus, or Allah. So stop looking for it in where it is not to be found! Realize that this very looking and seeking arises because of its absence within. The deer smells the tree bark for the musk produced by its own glands. You could laugh at that paradox. There is a greater madness abroad: Men looking for love from a stranger, for that which only his own heart and mind can produce. This is the secret of man's delirium - Mtsar (from the blog)

Michael Tsarion

posted September 27, 2009 12:32 PM            

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Love is not part of a transaction. It is the most PRIVATE thing there is or can be, in the full sense of that word.

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posted September 28, 2009 03:51 AM            

OK, that was really cheezy, sorry

"The deer smells the tree bark for the musk produced by its own glands."

That is so poignant... !!

I think about this sometimes too:

"Realize that this very looking and seeking arises because of its absence within. "

posted September 29, 2009 01:18 AM            

I think the original article goes too far kind of like MVM was alluding.

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So stop looking for it in where it is not to be found! Realize that this very looking and seeking arises because of its absence within.

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Like Kat said, I think we need that mirror. So maybe there is an absense within sometimes, but when that's the case isn't it helpful to have someone around to say, "This is what I see in you"?

_____________________

In general terms, I agree with the article. I think people need to fulfill themselves, and not look for someone else to do that for them. I also think relationships can pretty easily cloud a person's clarity on what would be fulfilling. Obviously relationship negotiations can affect couples changing values as can circumstance.

I don't know.

posted October 07, 2009 07:20 AM              

Every individual I have formed a relationshhip with now, suddenly feels, simply like a visitor in my lonely journey. But I feel so loved in the process, and feel that i have given so much love... that Love is....

Thankyou- I know someone else who would love this too.

posted October 09, 2009 01:37 AM            

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I dont think its for anyone to say what love is, or what relationships are.

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then:

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I think relationships are here, in large part, to challenge us, when we refuse to challenge ourselves. If we could challenge ourselves to make contact with all the hidden parts of ourselves, we might find wholeness inside ourselves. But who really does that? Anyone? I doubt it.

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We are not supposed to say what love might be, but it's okay to doubt what goes on in the hidden parts of another? Or assume we know what's going on in most people's cases? Maybe many people have found wholeness inside themselves this way Valus. Maybe some more of them even continue to explore it in relationships they have with others, but they found it somewhere else first. I dont see how this kind of thing should be highly doubtful.

also:

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They like to imagine that they're complete in themselves, and that it makes them strong and independent to be on their own, but, more often than not, that's just a cover for deeper feelings of inadequacy.

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And there are people in relationships who do that very same thing. Imagine they are complete only because of another. They're with someone, just to be someone with someone. That is also oftentimes a cover for feelings of inadequacy. We all have our own ways of living and learning here, which isnt always appropriate for the next guy. Just because it's different, doesnt mean it's wrong or automatically dysfunctional.

posted October 09, 2009 02:13 AM            

Since this wasnt meant to be a thread in which people argued back and forth about how wrong this guy's view is or isnt, but one in which I wanted to simply post something that resonated with me and share it with others who I knew would understand and appreciate it too and leave it at that -- then, I will! LOL I am disengaging from further conversation about it. Mostly because it would be pointless as I already understand what the other side is saying and just don't completely jive with it or wish to dissect, go round in circles, waste time typing about it or discussing it further.

Just saying.

Now have at the thread. Do with it what you will. Express whatever thoughts you want to. I'm happy and comfortable being me and working out my own life how I see fit and tired of explaining myself and "ways" to others.....really don't feel a need to is more like it and not looking to have my mind expanded with things i already know. Thank you.

posted October 09, 2009 03:05 AM            

OK granted the second argument wasn't really an argument but a poetry bomb aimed at the heart. But all's fair in love and logic.

posted October 09, 2009 12:28 PM            

Seems you have great taste in music too.

As Linda puts it: = Rock of Gibraltar

posted October 09, 2009 01:10 PM              

T,

I dont mean to step on any nerves. Like I said, love can't be encapsulated and its not for anyone to say for certain what love is or what another person's relationship is. We can share our perceptions, with the understanding that they are merely speculative, partial, tentative, and provisional. In the end, as I stated in the final sentence of my post, we could be wrong. I appreciate that you seem to approach it from another angle, and I believe every approach is idiosyncratic and imperfect, with both positive and negative aspects. I think its an interesting topic, and I'm glad you brought it up. Just because I interject an unrepresented viewpoint doesnt mean I'm trying to be argumentative. If you've already heard it before, that's great. Maybe somebody else hasnt heard it before, or heard it put a certain way. Evidently, my words have resonance for at least two people here, so I guess you're outvoted. But seriously, no hard feelings. I like to speculate and challenge things, and, ultimately, I very rarely take the time to come to any conclusions; especially about people whose personal lives hold no interest for me, and are no business of mine. Sometimes I agree with Tsarion's point of view, and sometimes I don't. Last night, I didnt. Today, I could care less. Maybe tomorrow I'll be making your case. Not that its anything we havent all heard before; its just nice to hear somebody articulating it in a new way, or trying to. With that in mind, I'd say we both deserve some kudos. Peace

posted October 09, 2009 01:15 PM            

"THE UNBEARABLE LIGHTNESS OF BEING" by Milan Kundera. It was made into a film starring Juliette Binoche and Daniel Day-Lewis.

posted October 09, 2009 01:25 PM              

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at once a compelling love story, philosophical text, and dialogue with Frederich Nietzsche

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Sounds like my kind of book, Yin.

posted October 13, 2009 11:24 AM            

fatinkerbell,
Yes, it's a very political book. I come from Kundera's side of the Iron Curtain, so his writing speaks to me on quite a few levels.