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Author Topic:   Twin Messiahs???
I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 13, 2021 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Twin Messiahs?

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GalacticCoreExplosion
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posted February 13, 2021 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GalacticCoreExplosion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Two for the price of one? What a deal!

Wait, what are we talking about here, more seriously speaking?

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I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 14, 2021 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
'Jesus Dynasty': Were There Two Messiahs?
That's the Question to Dwell upon...

Israel remains a land of holiness and of controversy -- and not just in political terms.

Almost by the month, religious scholars and historians propose a new way of understanding the life and impact of Jesus Christ. In his new book "The Jesus Dynasty," James Tabor is the latest addition to this hotly contested catalog...
Tabor, a historian with the Religious Studies Department at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte, has spent his entire career studying the life of Jesus. He says his new book is the culmination of 40 years of research.

"I first traveled to the Holy Land with my parents over 40 years ago," Tabor told "Nightline." "It was that experience that set me on my lifelong quest for the historical Jesus."

His conclusions are certain to provoke intense controversy and skepticism among other scholars and followers of the Christian faith. Tabor argues the historical evidence shows that Jesus had a human father, and that he was joined by a fellow messiah.
We took Tabor back to where it all started, the city of Jerusalem, to assess the major claims in his book...

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I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 14, 2021 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unbelievable' Discovery
We began our journey at the location of Tabor's most remarkable archaeological discovery: an ancient hillside tomb outside Jerusalem that had been recently ransacked.

Inside, there were compartments hewn from ancient stone where corpses had been laid to rest. They were empty, apart from one that appeared to contain an old newspaper laid out within the chamber. In fact, it was a burial shroud -- a linen fabric into which a corpse would have been placed. Test results proved almost beyond Tabor's wildest dreams.

"We had to believe the unbelievable," he said. "We had stumbled upon the only example of a burial shroud from the first century."


Analysis showed the shroud had contained the remains of a first-century man who died of tuberculosis. In the same tomb, Tabor's group also found an ossuary -- a box used to contain the bones of the deceased -- that had the name Miriam or Mary inscribed upon it. Tabor also believes the recently discovered ossuary of James, which some scholars have dismissed as a forgery, may have also originated in this tomb...

"There's some circumstantial evidence that the ossuary of James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus, came from this particular tomb," he said. "We have entertained the possibility that this tomb might've been the family tomb of Jesus."

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I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 14, 2021 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And it's with regard to Jesus' family that Tabor levels his most controversial claim.

"I'm ready to let the average reader know what we scholars actually discuss. And if it's shocking, it's shocking. You don't have to accept it. Jesus had a father."

Did that mean Tabor does not believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus?

"I don't," he said. "I think all humans have a human father."

Tabor, who studied first- and second-century Rabbinic and Greek texts, suggests a possible name for the human father of Jesus.

"They begin to call Jesus, 'bar Pantera,' son of Pantera," Tabor said. "And we even have an early Greek source. He's a philosopher named Kelsus, who seems to know a bit more about it. He says that Jesus was the son of a man named Pantera, who either was or became a Roman soldier."

The tombstone of Pantera is in Germany, says Tabor.

"Pantera is from Palestine. And he dates 62 years old when he dies ... He's on the frontier in Germany. And if you figure his date and where he was ... he's a teenager. You know, a young man maybe 19 or 20 at the time Mary becomes pregnant," Tabor said.

The suggestion that Pantera may have been the father of Jesus has been proposed before, however.

"It's not some new discovery," said Dr. Donald Carson, an expert in New Testament history from Trinity University in Illinois. "It's presented in the book as this great find that has been suppressed ... But it's been discussed and carefully weighed by centuries of scholars. There is nothing new here except the association of names that go back, at the end of the day, to reports of the enemies of Christianity from the second century. Pantera was an incredibly popular name at the time of Christ."

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I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 14, 2021 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Twin Messiahs?
Carson argues that Tabor's views are shaped by his own materialistic philosophy, which does not allow for any supernatural or extraordinary elements -- such as a Virgin Birth.

"What Dr. Tabor has done is assumed that the whole thing cannot be," Carson said. "It is a sham and therefore the evidence has to be jiggered, it has to be selectively appealed to in order to take away the evidence of God actually doing something in space, time, history. At that point, no amount of evidence will ever convince him unless he's open to the possibility that Dr. Tabor himself is wrong ... and that God has disclosed himself in space, time and history through a man. Namely, Jesus of Nazareth."

If Tabor's book is controversial on the birth of Jesus, it also raises questions about Jesus' early ministry. Tabor suggests there were two messiahs, not one.

Tabor took "Nightline" to a second cave on our visit to Jerusalem -- this time to the East.

The Suba Cave, as it is now known, is the site of a major archaeological dig. Inside the cave are primitive, centuries-old etchings, which Tabor believes depict the life of John the Baptist. The cave also contains thousands of first-century pottery shards.

Tabor suggests that given the number of individuals, who may have been baptized in Suba, it's likely that Jesus, not John, was actually performing the baptisms.

"I like to surprise with my answers," said Tabor. "Are you ready for this? This is John's area but you know text-wise, we have no record of John baptizing here near Ein Kerem and Suba. He's up along the Jordan River in the Jordanian wilderness. The person we have a record of baptizing here is Jesus, Jesus the Baptist."

Tabor believes that, contrary to the New Testament, Jesus and John the Baptist were twin Messiahs. He says that early texts anticipated more than one Messiah and that the practice of baptism suggests that they were acting similarly in their respective ministries.

"It hit me, how this would have electrified the country," Tabor said. "You see, all these predictions of two Messiahs, and we've got two Messiahs on the ground, operating, one in the north -- John the priest -- one in the south -- Jesus the king. And they're baptizing thousands of people."

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I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 14, 2021 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
north -- John the priest -- one in the south -- Jesus the king. And they're baptizing thousands of people."

Carson, however, strongly disagrees. "Now the texts do not say they did it [baptism] at the same place at the same time. If they did, it wouldn't bother me one way or the other. In other words I don't think the Suba cave adds anything to the account in that respect ... Merely numbers of people being baptized by itself doesn't say very much about the relationship of the two men or that they were both Messiahs or anything like that."

According to Carson, John the Baptist is absolutely clear as to Jesus being the one Messiah.

"John the Baptist says that he is not worthy to even undo the sandals of Jesus," Carson said. "When Jesus asks for baptism, according to Matthew's account, John the Baptist says, 'Wait a minute, I should be baptized by you, not the other way around'. He sees himself as announcing the coming of another.

Whereas, by contrast, when Jesus talks about John there is not a sort of mutual admiration society of colleagues, still less a kind of a minor admiration for a predecessor. In other words, it is correct to say that John the Baptist does initiate the movement. But to say he is therefore the first Messiah simply goes beyond the evidence."

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I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 14, 2021 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In addition to Tabor's claims that Jesus had an earthly father and a fellow Messiah, his book also argues it was Jesus' intention to build a dynasty on earth. Tabor says that it was Jesus' half-brother James who would inherit the title role of dynastical king after the crucifixion.

But again, Carson is adamant that the title of the book, "The Jesus Dynasty," is plain wrong.

"The dynasty bit presupposes that there is continuity. That is, there's succession. But the New Treatment evidence, such as it is, is that Jesus is the final king who goes on ruling and reigning. He doesn't need a dynasty, precisely because he is the ongoing king."

Carson insists there was no plan to build a Jesus dynasty.

"No. None," he said. "Jesus was king forever."

The book itself is bound to raise questions and arouse debate. And the argument about the historical Jesus will continue for now...

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GalacticCoreExplosion
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posted February 14, 2021 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GalacticCoreExplosion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sigh.. The material minded are ever trying to diminish Yeshua and his origins, works, and accomplishments. Been going on for some 2000 years or so.

Why settle for second hand information, when one can, through deep and more ideal and Love and/or gratitude attuned meditation, commune directly with he who would speak to any with a sincere heart and who is capable of hearing him?

What I will say, is that the most verified and vast psychic work in the world to date, the Edgar Cayce "Readings", consistently say that the NT account is mostly accurate, and also affirm that the more Catholic belief in the virgin birth is also accurate, and that Yeshua was born, lived a life of exemplary Love and attunement to Source, was falsely tried, tortured, and murdered, and then on the 3rd day resurrected.

There are about 10, 000 reasons to take Cayce's work very seriously (meaning, there was so much consistent verification in this work that odds are pretty high that they are accurate on this as well). 10, 000 may seem an arbitrary number (and to some extent it is more of a guesstimate), but consider this, there are some 14, 300 or so documented readings on file that still exist (and it's suspected that he gave around a thousand to few thousand more than that, that no longer exist), and the majority of readings were health/medical readings, wherein the majority of those, Cayce provided detailed information about the health and state of the body and mind of the recipient, who often was no where near Cayce physically at the time of the reading (and fairly often, in another state).

Doctors tested him on numerous occasions, but after a group of doctors did lovely things like stick pins in his cheeks and ripped up his pinky nail, etc while he was in trance, he stopped letting doctors "test" him.

Anyways, I have spoken directly with Yeshua on numerous occasions (some in meditation, some in dreams, and more rarely when in a more normal/typical state of consciousness), and I get the sense that the Cayce work is pretty dang accurate about him.

But this world and the majority of humanity prefers illusions over truth, and the rare real truth tellers are often peeing in the wind.

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GalacticCoreExplosion
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posted February 15, 2021 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GalacticCoreExplosion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Btw, Yohannan the Baptist was a bit of a "messiah" himself. Messiah means/translates as "anointed" by the Creator and often in the context/sense of being a leader/facilitator/guide type.

In Jewish belief system(s), there have been multiple historical messiahs. Even King David, as much as he screwed up ethically/morally, was considered a "messiah".

Yohannan was very crucial to Yeshua's role and ministry. A number of Yeshua's disciples were first Yohannan's disciples. Yeshua said of Yohannan, that none born of a woman is greater than him. Pretty lofty praise for his cousin and forerunner.

However, under torture, duress, and imprisonment, Yohannan began to doubt and falter some in his beliefs, hence why Yeshua added a caveat to the above, "but the least in Heaven are greater than him". This was not so much a direct, personal criticism or judgement of Yohannan, but a recognition of the human body and condition and its effects on a Soul while focused here.

In other words, it is far, far, far easier to be fast vibratory and purely positive when one is focused in a collective very fast vibratory, nonphysical dimension (i.e. "heaven") than it is while focused here and directly connected to a human body.

So in a sense, the author is correct, there were two messiahs, for Yohannan was certainly pre chosen and pre planned by the Creative Forces to play an important role in the fulfillment of the bigger plan. Prophecies not only talked of Yeshua's coming, but also his forerunner in the Spirit of Elijah. (and both Yohannan and Elijah, as two different Souls, were from the same Spirit/Monadic self).

The Creative Forces have told me that similar is going to happen this time around again, except that it will be 3. The Edgar Cayce work gives clues and hints to this. Two figures were said to be planning to incarnate sometime in the 58 to 98 period to help Yeshua finish up/fulfill his plans for the spiritual transformation of this world.

One will be the Soul who lived the life of Yohannan the beloved, and the other who was connected to Cayce's Spirit/Monad and who lived the life of Ra Ta. These two "sent" ones, would help to prepare the way for Yeshua's return, and by that, I mean the more so helping the Christ Consciousness to blossom in humanity in a more collective sense.

Yeshua himself will also go public after his two helpers and co-workers go public after the coming collapse, but not until after they start to example similar works and teachings as he did 2000 years ago. As to the identity of the two men, all that can and will be said is that both were born in and live in America.

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I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 15, 2021 01:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well Yeshu was Fully Human & Fully God...
If God Yahweh can take an Avatar in Human form so can his Descendants...and His Spiritual Family
Nothing is Written in Stone...If you Believe in Miracles then you ought to just Trust God...The first step toward trusting the Lord with all your heart is to accept His free gift of eternal life. To “trust in the Lord with all your heart” is possible because the Lord Himself has provided all the resources we need to be totally reliant upon Him.

What does it mean to trust the Lord “with all your heart”?

“Trust in the Lord…”
Let’s look at some of the terminology used in Proverbs 3:5. The word “trust” here implies confidence or security. It is a concept that is associated with firmness or something that is solid or secure, according to The Hebrew-Greek Study Bible. Simply stated, we can put our confidence or security in the Lord because we know that He can be trusted. That’s exactly why Hebrews 11:1 says that trust, or our faith in God has “substance.”

We get that. Our God is real – and He is certainly all-powerful, and He is absolutely loving. We can absolutely trust Him. He has substance. His Word and His promises are secure. We can and do put our trust in Him.

“…with all your heart…”
The word “heart” in Proverbs 3:5 is an old English concept that was used to refer to the ruling center of the whole person. The heart was seen as the center of a person’s will, mind, and feelings. It does not mean the physical, life-sustaining organ that distributes the flow of blood throughout the body. When the Bible uses this term “heart” it usually indicates the control center of life.

That brings us to the word “all.” An old cliché fits this verse, “All means all; and that’s all ‘all’ means.” The idea of trusting the Lord “with all our heart” adds some quantitative detail to our faith.

When someone uses the phrase “with all your heart” it means there is no more room for anyone or anything else. For years, some Christ followers have encouraged others to be “sold out for Christ.” What is understood by that phrase was if someone was sold out in their faith in Christ there would be no more room to love or trust anyone or anything else.

That’s the focus of the statement, “trusting the Lord with all your heart.” It means that we have put our faith and trust alone in the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We have given Him His rightful claim to the throne of our lives and there is no room for anyone or anything else to have that place in our lives...

“…and lean not on your own understanding.”
The last half of Proverbs 3:5, (“And lean not on your own understanding”) helps us understand the real implications of the word “all.” If we are giving the Lord complete command over our lives, then we won’t rely or depend on our “own understanding.” WE will trust in Him for everything and not try to figure things out or make things work on Our OWN from NOW on...

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I*Am* Rajji
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posted February 15, 2021 01:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I*Am* Rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Equally amazing to the doctrine of the Trinity is the doctrine of the Incarnation — that Jesus Christ is God and man, yet one person, forever. As J.I. Packer has said, “Here are two mysteries for the price of one — the plurality of persons within the unity of God, and the union of Godhead and manhood in the person of Jesus. . . . Nothing in fiction is so fantastic as is this truth of the Incarnation.”

The early church considered the Incarnation to be one of the most important truths of our faith. Because of this, they formulated what has come to be called the Chalcedonean Creed, a statement which sets forth what we are to believe and what we are not to believe about the Incarnation. This creed was the fruit of a large council that took place from October 8 to November 1, 451, in the city of Chalcedon and “has been taken as the standard, orthodox definition of the biblical teaching on the person of Christ since that day by” all the major branches of Christianity.
There are five main truths with which the creed of Chalcedon summarized the biblical teaching on the Incarnation:

1. Jesus has two natures — He is God and man.
2. Each nature is full and complete — He is fully God and fully man.
3. Each nature remains distinct.
4. Christ is only one Person.
5. Things that are true of only one nature are nonetheless true of the Person of Christ.
A proper understanding of these truths clears up much confusion and many difficulties we may have in our mind. How can Jesus be both God and man? Why doesn’t this make him two people? How does his Incarnation relate to the Trinity? How could Jesus have hungered (Matthew 4:2) and died (Mark 15:37) when he was on earth, and yet still be God? Did Jesus give up any of his divine attributes in the Incarnation? Why is it inaccurate to say that Jesus is a “part” of God? Is Jesus still human now, and does he still have his human body???

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GalacticCoreExplosion
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posted February 15, 2021 02:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GalacticCoreExplosion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeshua is very much still in the physical earth level, as well as in all other levels simultaneously.

In this physical earth level i.e. the 3rd dimension, he appears to have a physical body that one can see, touch, and generally interact with in a physical like way. However, his "body" is not like ours. It is no longer a very slow vibratory, distorted reflection of his consciousness, but a direct reflection of consciousness.*

Hence, it is not subject to decay/age, death, sickness, the laws of physics, etc. If he wanted to, he could physically appear to every human on the earth simultaneously. However, when interacting with humans, he usually keeps it to the one form image and generally goes along with most of the laws of physics to "blend in".

He is icognito for now, and has been a long time, in the human, "body" sense. He will go public after his helpers and co-workers start to manifest similar works and teachings as he did so long ago. Then it will be "safe" for him to come out of his incognito role. Safe is not really a good term, but more so the conditions will be right for it.

If he went public now, too many humans would worship him as a special God-man among humans, and that is the LAST thing he wants. He wants humans to know that all can become like him if they but live and choose like he does.

Hence, he needs OTHER humans to example similarly. Not long after his two co-workers come forward, and then he comes forward, there will be more humans here and there fully waking up, like bright Light bulbs being lit up around the world. And then it will happen more and more, as more and more start to fully wake up.

In about a thousand years from now, every human alive will be like Yeshua and these.

This, is the true and more full "2nd coming".

Meanwhile, religions and other dogmatic human, codified belief systems will have to die or transform. Because the future is about DIRECT KNOWING THROUGH GUIDANCE AND EXPERIENCE, and not belief, dogma, etc which are as stones around humanity's neck and often the blind leading the blind.

Every major and minor belief system on earth right now has both truth and distortions to varying degrees of proportion. Every one. Not a single fully and completely clear one. There is no exception. Why, they are all influenced/shaped by non fully awake/enLightened humans. All have had distortions injected into them.

In the future, after the coming collapse, people will focus far more on actually living the truth. And the highest truth is, and has ever been, Universal, Divine Love. You get and live that holistically and everything else, including understanding and clear perception, comes along. Lack that, and attune to ego/selfishness/fear/separateness, and then you create distortions in, and limit, your perception.

These truths are very, very difficult for humans to accept. The ego part of us clings to belief systems, and to the notion of separateness. "Tantra is the best and most accurate path", "no, Tibetan Buddhism is", "No, this Guru knows the way", "No Christian religion does", "No Hinduism does", and so on and so forth. All as the blind men feeling the elephant and describing different parts and saying it is this or that creature or form, and all simultaneously wrong and partially correct at the same time.

The true path, is the pathless path, the one of lack of beliefs and being led completely by inner, direct guidance. Even as accurate and helpful as the Edgar Cayce readings are, even this would but be a limitation and hindrance ultimately to the Soul that would experience the full and true liberation.

*As an interesting aside. My partner of 20 years is my twin soul. She is a very touchy, feely type person. To a large extent, she equates loving touch with love. This is shown in her chart by her having Venus as her strongest Planet (in the 1st and closest to her ASC) and Taurus IC.

One time she had a dream wherein she was viewing Yeshua and how he interacted with other people. She was surprised to see that he wasn't all that touchy feely and cuddly with people. She jokingly said after the dream that he was a "sucky cuddle bunny". This is not to say that Yeshua never hugged or touched people in an affectionate way, but it was not a strong pattern for him.

Her guidance/Expanded self level was trying to get her away from her over focus on the body physical and especially the association of "Love" to "physical interaction". Yeshua loved the Soul/consciousness of people far, far, far more than their physical bodies. The physical body is just a temporary vehicle that one is temporarily connecting to to express in this level. He focused more on loving the more eternal parts/levels of individuals.

This is a lesson that she needs to learn/master better, as she is yet still too tied to the earth, earthly. She needs to break her attachments to same. Interestingly, my other twin soul who is incarnated now (they are two souls from the same Expanded self, like Yohannan and Elijah were), is quite similar in this way to my partner twin soul. Also very attached to the body and to the physical. Both have powerful combo of Taurus/Venus and Aries. And yet very strong Uranus, Jupiter, and Sun combo that calls them to a faster vibratory way on the Soul level.

(Sometimes I get the sense that my other twin Soul that rejects me/us, observes and studies me on this forum.. you out there HK ever silently watching and contemplating, trying to figure me and us out? Why your opening heart feels so called and drawn to me against your ego's/personality mind wishes? Why my silly, stupid jokes and my deep wisdom and insight makes you grin and feel happy and yet simultaneously pained/sad inside? Dunno, I'm probably deluded and imagining it all.)

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