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Author Topic:   End of U.S. in 2010?
26taurus
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posted March 24, 2009 09:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any thoughts on this? I was searching for predictions and came across this:

As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.

In Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America 'Disintegrates' in 2010
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
By ANDREW OSBORN
12/29/08

MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.

In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."

Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.

A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.

"There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.

Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin's ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country's top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin's English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.

Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."

Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.

Mr. Panarin's résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB's successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.

The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."

In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.

"When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise," he remembers. He says most in the audience were skeptical. "They didn't believe me."

At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.

He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.

"It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.

Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia's biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt "a pyramid scheme," and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington's role as a global financial regulator.

Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles."

The article prompted a question about the White House's reaction to Prof. Panarin's forecast at a December news conference. "I'll have to decline to comment," spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.

For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino's response was significant. "The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully," he says.

The professor says he's convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

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Dervish
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posted March 24, 2009 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I overheard a Russian and some Russian Americans talking about this article. I don't recall specifics, but the general impression was that he's not that credible...but many Russians would love it if it were true.

And I'm not sure if the KGB is as messed up as the CIA, but they're dysfunctional enough that I tend to look upon anyone claiming such credentials (doubly so if they can prove it) with extreme skepticism.

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26taurus
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posted March 24, 2009 10:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the comment and your thoughts Dervish. I'm reading some of the 657 comments on the article now. Some are pretty funny.

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NosiS
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posted March 24, 2009 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I saw this awhile ago.

The professor's words are a bit empty of life. He's just parroting what he "sees" in his "information".

Now, IMO that's not to say that I think his outlook is absurd. The method of his discernment does seem odd, though.

quote:
"There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says.

How is he coming up with that? Is he using a graphing calculator or is he working out the equations on paper?

Someone once wrote, “Insanity destroys reason, but not wit.” I think it applies here.

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26taurus
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posted March 24, 2009 10:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nosis, I thought the line you quoted was odd as well.

and

quote:
Someone once wrote, “Insanity destroys reason, but not wit.” I think it applies here.

I like that! Just might have to make it my new signature quote!

some readers comments:

"I believe the United States really does have some serious problems. Our foreign debt is indeed a ponzi scheme. But there are several other "unions" that would fall apart before the United States. The EU comes to mind first. Then, of course, Russia itself, which will have a hard time paying off it's citizens through oil money with oil below $50 per barrel. And, if you need any sign of this guy's ignorance, even if you entertained the idea of the US falling apart, do you really believe that Virginia, NC, SC, Ky, and Tenn would fall in line behind New England states? I think not!""
I thought the same thing.

"I only wish that Canada would get the the southern states as well. I think it would be novel to hear French spoken with a southern drawl."

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26taurus
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posted March 24, 2009 11:01 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You had me really concerned if not halfway scared until I got to the following paragraph. He's nothing more than a military stratigist for the KGB and it's pretty obvious if not transparant. I'm 63 years old and remember all to well the mind control and para psychological games that the Russion intelligencia attempted to dessiminate upon the American people. Articles like these will only serve to further unite Americans. The international community just can't get it through their heads that when you back Americans into a corner they come out swinging twice as hard. But thanks for the heads up Mr. Panarin. Now you've given America something to ralley behind and fight for. I look forward to your next diatribe.

John DL Arendsen
American

"The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."

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katatonic
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posted March 25, 2009 01:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
actually astrologically there's plenty of reason to believe that civil war or a new revolution might break out. with saturn, pluto and uranus in a cardinal t'square...who knows what could happen? and won't jupiter be in aries the same time uranus is?? (not sure about that one)

i remember liz greene also predicted the breakup of the soviet union, in a 1982 book of transcribed lectures on the outer planets...i haven't heard of her predicting the end of the US though!

but i agree this russian could just be looking for favour in moscow. or publicity plain and simple. there are so many armageddon stories out there right now why not one more??

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26taurus
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posted March 25, 2009 01:59 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah. I was thinking of astrological factors as well. One being U.S. Progressed Mars retrograde. I read about it in the Mountain Astrologer magazine quite awhle ago, and it came to mind as i read this.

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26taurus
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posted March 25, 2009 02:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just dug up some info. Havent read these yet.


USA Mars Goes Retrograde

America Attacks Itself Mars Turns Retrograde in the Nation's Birth Chart

Mars Retrograde and the U.S.

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katatonic
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posted March 25, 2009 02:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
that is interesting in light of the fact that we have pluto in cap (where it was in the natal, don't know the deg tho) and saturn in libra (returning) AND p. mars retro in libra with uranus about to hit aries. anything in cancer to stabilize the picture?? i think seceding states might definitely happen, but i don't necessarily think that means we'll be overrun by the chinese, russians and mexicans. though a certain faction of mexicans have been plotting to overrun us for years ("we have more babies than gringos, its just a matter of time!")

maybe jose silva's real plan was to hypnotize us all into bowing to the azteca??

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Mannu
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posted March 25, 2009 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wish it happened without the states going to foreign powers. A central form of government has become too corrupted. But I doubt Obama will let this happen. A central form of government for moony American people does n't work. He is trying his best to mind control people in believing he has to fulfil what Abraham did during his times.
Well times were different then. The president was quite honorable and men of characters. This flame seem to have been carried over from generation to generation and suddenly seems to have ended many decades ago before 60s. Also, people were less civilised and the population also was small. Now times are different. People understand liberty a lot better and there is respect for each other. They also have grown much civil. Au contraire D.C.has become a haven of thugs and other criminals. Politics seems to attract those people these days.

Each states GDP parallels or exceeds that of some of the leading nations of the planet.

D.C is the mecca for crooks and politicians. Its high time someone pulls the rugs under them.

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sunshine_lion
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posted March 25, 2009 01:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
interesting articles. something is brewing hopefully certain of us will be protected and blessed though some really changing times here. it is what we can hope for.

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katatonic
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posted March 25, 2009 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
stuart wilde has been travelling in other dimensions, or so he says, for years now. he has met creatures he calls ghouls, whom he believes have their hooks in the people in power, if not most of us!! but this is the title of a youtube clip/chant which he says makes the ghouls sick!:

Gayatri Mantra - Honoring the Gods

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sunshine_lion
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posted March 25, 2009 03:40 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
any books
?

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26taurus
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posted March 25, 2009 04:53 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting kat. I have a book of mantras that i took out last night. I think that one is in there...

sunshine...the times they are....

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katatonic
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posted March 28, 2009 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sunshine...he's written tons of books. my favourite is the whispering winds of change, which was the beginning of his turning a corner toward where he is now. his earlier stuff was more along "traditional" new age lines, manifesting etc, but he has long since gone beyond that. one of my favourite writers even when i disagree with him. love his sense of humour and lack of reverence for ANY ideology...

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katatonic
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posted March 28, 2009 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

Copyright ©1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

Enter any keywords to Search Lyrics
Is Equal ToContainsContains Any WordContains All WordsStarts WithEnds WithDoes Not Contain

its true what they say about the more things change the more they stay the same...

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Randall
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posted August 07, 2011 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guess he shouldn't give up his day job, since his psychic gig isn't working out.

------------------
"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." Aristotle

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T
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posted November 26, 2011 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, it is. Pay attention.

2008 anyone?

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Randall
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posted December 31, 2011 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A recession isn't the receeding of states from the union. He's a whack job.

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Randall
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posted April 19, 2012 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These Doom and Gloomers deserve no attention.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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