Author
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Topic: Does God provide Shortcuts?
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raj_105_2001 Knowflake Posts: 1300 From: Chennai Registered: Apr 2001
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posted January 19, 2008 05:37 AM
Can a dishonest man be a spiritual, religious, god fearing citizen?By the word "dishonest" I am not thinking about people who say a few white lies (or even black ones) because of circumstances. I am not thinking about people in situations where being dishonest was the only choice. I am not thinking about those who are cornered and they had to escape. I am thinking about those who have chosen dishonesty, consciously and knowingly. They could get ahead with serious preparation and a little hard work. But they do not like the path. They tend to think "If you can earn a lot, without any work, just by pulling a few tricks on people, it is just a waste of time spending all those hours on upgrading and preparing." They chose to be dishonest as a simple solution, a shortcut, that would require less energy and more fun. And there is something with them that just does not add up. Such guys are religious and some of them even full time devotees. They would visit their religious centers with great devotion and passion. They wake up every morning with their cd player singing devotional songs. They advise that faith will work miracles. If they are so god fearing, then why do they choose the obviously wrong path? Do they believe and perceive God as a producer of shortcuts? That contradiction in character is ununderstandable and I believe the dishonest guys themselves would not be able to explain their contradiction meaningfully (except by resortng to philosophy or rationalizations) I see this in people who try to get rich by changing their car license numbers. They tell you with beautiful poetry, references and citations how life is controlled by the divine forces of the planets and man would not realize he is powerless against them. If you do not have power over the forces from the planets, then why do you try to change them?. If the forces in astrology would hold, and you are powerless against them, then what is the point of changing them? One can either face the contradictions and resolve them or rationalize and get ahead with his or her life.
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ListensToTrees Knowflake Posts: 2584 From: the capricious clouds, in the land formerly known as Albion Registered: Jul 2005
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posted January 19, 2008 06:35 AM
Without honesty, there can be no trust.The world has become so diseased with lies and deceit. The world is crying out for honesty. No-one knows who they can really trust any more. Without honesty, there can be no intimacy. It is a lonely journey. Sure, a dishonest person can still be good in other ways. I feel that there is beauty in everyOne.
However, we always need to keep growing and working on ourselves. There is nothing we can't do- no problem that can't be overcome.....in time, with the required amount of action. "Actions speak louder than words". Lyrics from Teardrop by Liz Fraser:
Love, love is a verb Love is a doing word Fearless on my breath Gentle impulsion Shakes me makes me lighter Fearless on my breath Teardrop on the fire Fearless on my breath Nine night of matter Black flowers blossom Fearless on my breath Black flowers blossom Fearless on my breath Teardrop on the fire Fearless on my breath Water is my eye Most faithful mirror Fearless on my breath Teardrop on the fire of a confession Fearless on my breath Most faithful mirror Fearless on my breath Teardrop on the fire Fearless on my breath Stumbling a little Stumbling a little ------------------ There is no real evil except ignorance itself- an amnesia, a desensitization of who we truly are- a part of the unity of all creation. IP: Logged |
LEXX Knowflake Posts: 97 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 19, 2008 11:01 AM
quote: Can a dishonest man be a spiritual, religious, god fearing citizen?
Yes. However it hinges also on what those terms mean to individuals.Spiritual? He may think he is whilst immersing himself in certain new age books and think by doing yoga or meditating, or dangling a crystal around his neck or waving a smudge stick about, chanting something found written on an angel card from his pre-packaged kit he purchased from Shanti Poo Poo Gaia Mystic Supreme Mother INC.,complete with a healer's certificate offer(he can send back in for $100 and get his Reiki certificate etcetera) and his certificate saying he is a real psychic medium and and invitation to go to a psychic retreat(send in $$$ and buy even more "proof" of his spirituality)... Yes... he may believe that he is a spiritual man... Or he does it because it is trendy and that is as deep as it goes. Religious? Oh my yes! A very common thing! But truly devout and understanding?... and not just running with the "program"...then NO I do not think so. God fearing? Yeah... because he KNOWS he is a lying sack of sh!t and is terrified God will "get" him, so he goes through the motions and rituals of being Spiritual and Religious, does his confessions, or gets born and reborn over and over, goes to yoga classes, imagines he has healing powers because he paid for a class and got a certificate (from another shyster)...but does not actually believe in any of it, but hopes it is enough to appease God and that God will not strike him down, and lets him go about doing as he wishes. He may even justify it with such phrases as... "Well, I never killed anyone" "He was the enemy so I killed him." "I go to confession." "I go to church." "I give to charity." "I am straight." "Halleulah! I am born again!"(during a manic moment in between "falling" again, only to be reborn over and over) ....The list goes on. And if he is a truly dishonest man.... Nothing he ever does can be counted on to be true or without hidden self serving agendas. And even worse.. he lies to himself so much... he may actually believe in his self delusional mind, he may believe he is spiritual, religious, and god fearing. And those of his ilk will believe him, or the naive and gullible. And he may even promote his fake self and false teachings to indoctrinate others into his way. IP: Logged |
Charlotte Knowflake Posts: 1082 From: Music City, USA Registered: Apr 2004
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posted January 19, 2008 05:16 PM
Hi! raj_105_2001, I think someone like that is going to have to pay in the end.LTT, Very good post! IP: Logged |
Charlotte Knowflake Posts: 1082 From: Music City, USA Registered: Apr 2004
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posted January 19, 2008 05:17 PM
LEXX,Right on! IP: Logged |
LEXX Knowflake Posts: 97 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 19, 2008 07:18 PM
Charlotte I like what you said too! IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Knowflake Posts: 6114 From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA Registered: Aug 2004
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posted January 22, 2008 09:55 AM
Deception is the child of self-deception. I do not think it is a conscious choice. At least, not as conscious as you suppose. As for your question about the planets:
quote: If you do not have power over the forces from the planets, then why do you try to change them?
"A wise man rules by the stars. A fool is ruled by them." - Hermetic Axiom Adapting, and changing oneself, in response to the provocations of the planets, so as to more easily accord with the will of the planets, is a far cry from "trying to change the planets". We do not change a king, or rule over him, when we carry out his will, or adapt ourselves to it. The king's will is to reward or punish us - we may, by our actions, "change" his response from punishing to rewarding, but, really, we dont change anything. We do exactly as he wanted in the first place - he would have been as happy to reward us as to punish, since it is all the same to him; it is one action, and whether we experience it as "reward" or as "punishment" depends not on any change in the king's will, but, a change in our relation to his will. Whether we are rewarded for agreeing, or punished for diagreeing, with his will, we remain, nonetheless, subject to it. And just because you are destined to do something, and know you are destined to do it, doesnt mean you know how, what, when, why, etc., or that you can undermine your own destiny; or take precautions against one planet, without obeying the stronger provocations of another planet.
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LEXX Knowflake Posts: 97 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 22, 2008 10:26 AM
quote: Deception is the child of self-deception.
Self deception is also the child of denial and self delusion. What an awful "family" tree. Denial begets Delusion Delusion begets Self Deception Self Deception begets Deception/Deceiving Deception/Deceiving begets Lying and or leads to begetting a more powerful form, A child who is blend of Self Deception and Deceiving. Concepts of truth elude them. They sincerely believe all is right with themselves and everyone else or things is what is screwed up. Totally clueless. IP: Logged |
SattvicMoon Knowflake Posts: 2079 From: Kochi, India Registered: May 2007
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posted January 22, 2008 10:51 AM
quote: Can a dishonest man be a spiritual, religious, god fearing citizen?
No, a dishonest person can never be spiritual. Yes, a dishonest person can be religious. And yes, a dishonest person will always be a god-fearing person, they can never rise to the level of God-loving person. And a dishonest person can always realize the mistakes, make amends and become a highly spiritual and God-loving person.
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LEXX Knowflake Posts: 97 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 22, 2008 12:21 PM
TRUE. And... Yes... Anyone can change. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11231 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted January 22, 2008 04:58 PM
I can't help but think of high profile Christian healers at the very mention of a dishonest spiritual person.I think the most spiritual amongst us are probably the least vocal on their spirituality, but I could be wrong. I don't know the answer. quote: Does God provide shortcuts?
It would appear that he does, but that appearance could be deceptive. IP: Logged |
BlueRoamer Knowflake Posts: 3487 From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean Registered: Jun 2003
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posted January 22, 2008 09:56 PM
I think the most spiritual amongst us are probably the least vocal on their spirituality, but I could be wrong.You're definitely wrong AG, I'm the most spiritual and everyone knows it. IP: Logged |
purple_scorp Knowflake Posts: 440 From: Australia Registered: Sep 2004
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posted January 24, 2008 07:27 PM
I think, there are people that are spiritual wannabees. They try to be like other spiritual people that they admire, but they haven't quite got all of the pieces in place yet. They don't understand that spirituality is a way of life - I don't feel you can turn it off or on. It's like being pregnant. You can't be a bit pregnant - you either are or you are not.So, these people try to adapt certain parts of spirituality thinking it will be enough to pull them through. But it's not. Religion on the other hand comes in segments. You can select and apply the parts that you feel are suited to you. By this I mean that a religious dishonest-person will justify their behaviour by knowing that it will be seen as a sin. But, all they have to do is confess this sin and repent. And all may be forgiven. Spirituality is different because it affects you at a soul level. People can only change if they want to change. There are plenty that acknowledge they need to change but just won't step over that fear threshold. And then, it's only really lip service with no action and they are stuck in this lack-of-growth cycle. I don't think God (or the Universe) provides shortcuts but I do believe that some lessons and consequential healing can be fast-tracked. Not for the liars, cheats and dishonest amongst us though. Only for those souls who exhibit trust, honesty, integrity and love. with love purple_scorp IP: Logged |
LEXX Knowflake Posts: 97 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 24, 2008 07:48 PM
quote: spirituality is a way of life - I don't feel you can turn it off or on. It's like being pregnant. You can't be a bit pregnant - you either are or you are not.
Exactly! IP: Logged |
maklhouf Knowflake Posts: 1350 From: Registered: Nov 2003
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posted January 25, 2008 06:22 AM
The enemy of spirituality is not dishonesty but pride.------------------ The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; Matthew 21:42 IP: Logged |
LEXX Knowflake Posts: 97 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 25, 2008 08:47 AM
quote: The enemy of spirituality is not dishonesty but pride.
Just like; "Ego/Vanity is the destroyer of even the Gods"IP: Logged |
Lialei Knowflake Posts: 1867 From: threshold Registered: Jul 2005
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posted January 25, 2008 10:24 AM
keen observation, maklhouf Shortly before his death, a woman correspondent complained to him that the road to clarity and moral freedom was a painful struggle and a never-ending conflict. His rather impatient reply was, "What are you writing me of your inner conflicts? To have these is obviously the trait of all humans--that is, all of those who are above the ordinary... It causes great pains but also extreme joy."
~ on Fyodor Dostoevsky
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maklhouf Knowflake Posts: 1350 From: Registered: Nov 2003
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posted January 25, 2008 12:25 PM
I'm nuts about Dostoevsky------------------ The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; Matthew 21:42 IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11231 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted January 25, 2008 02:50 PM
You certainly are, BlueRoamer. IP: Logged |
Lialei Knowflake Posts: 1867 From: threshold Registered: Jul 2005
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posted January 25, 2008 08:48 PM
It would be important to note, the impatience in Dostoevsky's tone portrays his correspondence's complaint did not serve to arouse his compassion. She may well have been "above the ordinary"....if so, she was capable of a broader wealth of understanding than her prideful meanderings, which retained her, bound her in ordinary realms.IP: Logged | |