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Author Topic:   Fascinating documentary about Turin shroud!!
ListensToTrees
Knowflake

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posted April 02, 2008 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Part I
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/ufo/video/x4x5wi_the-fabric-of-time-13_tech

Part II
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/ufo/video/x4x70a_the-fabric-of-time-23_lifestyle

Part III
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/ufo/video/x4x7hw_the-fabric-of-time-33_news

We live in a world where science and religion have often been on opposing sides.

But is all that changing?

For the first time, science and religion have come together to uncover an age-old mystery.

Who was Jesus Christ?

What did he actually look like?

And can the story of his death and resurrection now be proven as true?

Viewers around the world are in the jury box as newly found scientific discoveries are presented by scholars, scientists, and historians in an unflinching search for evidence --nothing has been held back.
Could it be that actual documentation of this amazing story is still available today?

Is it possible that a single fiber from an ancient artifact might hold the answers?

And has science found a way to unlock the hidden information contained in the artifact that could provide a link to the past-one that might explain the universe in a whole new light and give hope to people around the world?

Did Christ leave us physical evidence that only now with quantum leaps forward in science, are we able to understand?

Have scientists actually been able to produce a full three dimensional image of Christ?

See the evidence and decide for yourself in THE FABRIC OF TIME: Are the Secrets of the Universe Hidden in an Ancient Cloth?

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

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From: Infinity
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posted April 03, 2008 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Reincarnation and the Early Christians

In December, 1945, early Christian writings containing many secrets of the early Christian religion were found in upper Egypt, a location where many Christians fled during the Roman invasion of Jerusalem. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these manuscripts of Christian mysticism rank in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls. These writings affirmed the existence of the doctrine of reincarnation being taught among the early Jews and Christians. These Christian mystics, referred to as Christian Gnostics, were ultimately destroyed by the orthodox Church for being heretics. Their sacred writings were destroyed and hidden with the belief that they would be revealed at an appropriate time in the future. The discovery in 1945 yielded writings that included some long lost gospels, some of which were written earlier than the known gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Brian A. Bain, M.A., has this to say about the 1945 discovery:

"Long considered to be heretical, ancient Gnostic Christian texts unearthed this century display compelling similarities between Gnostic conceptions of life and death and modern near-death experiences. The Gnostic texts devoted extensive tracts to what readers could expect to encounter when they died. Other passages make numerous allusions to near-death-like experiences that can be realized in this life, most notably the human encounter with a divine light. The Gnostic Christian literature gives us one more example of NDEs and similar experiences in the ancient world."

Another interesting fact comes from Edgar Cayce (a near-death experiencer) who affirmed that Gnosticism is the highest form of Christianity.

The Christian Gnostics were regarded by some as a new Jewish sect who believed they had finally found the long-awaited Messiah and not a new religion. Some of the apostles became Gnostic and because of this, Christianity could well have grown up as a Gnostic religion had it not been for their eventual persecution by the organized Church centuries later.

The Secret Teachings of Jesus

An important Christian Gnostic teaching was the "Logos" which in Greek is translated as "the image of the Word." It is an important concept found in the gospel of John:

"In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

Logos is the part of God that acts in the world. It is the perfect unity of the human and the divine. This is affirmed by John when he wrote that "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." When John stated that Jesus is the Logos, he is stating that Jesus became the Logos, the Christ. The Logos is the divine "spark" of God within humans that needs to awakened. Everyone has the "image of the Word (Logos)" within them and it is for this reason that Genesis describes humanity as created "in the image and likeness of God." The Logos is the divine Spirit in humanity. By using the Christian Gnostic idea of the Logos, John is not only affirming the preexistence and divinity of Jesus, but he is affirming that all sons of God created in the "image of the Word" as Jesus was, preexisted in spirit before being born. In other words, every human is an incarnation of the Logos and every human has to potential of becoming like Jesus, a manifestation of the human-divine unity. Every human can be a "Christ" and because of this, every soul will eventually be drawn back to God.

The Roman Church misunderstood what the Logos was in John and incorrectly concluded from this that only Jesus is divine - the Word made flesh. The orthodox Church either rejected or ignored this Christian Gnostic concept found in John. This may have been a factor when the gospel of John was almost rejected from New Testament canon when it was being put together. This was during a time when Christian Gnosticism became an enemy of the organized Church. Nevertheless, it was the idea of the preexistence of the soul and its corresponding doctrine of reincarnation that the Roman Church had great difficulty with.

The Christian Gnostics emphasized spiritual knowledge rather blind faith as the road to salvation. They indicated that they possessed secret knowledge (i.e., "gnosis" in Greek) concerning the hidden meaning of the "resurrection." This was a part of the secret teachings of Jesus handed down to them by the apostles. This special knowledge was restricted to people who were given the public teachings of Christianity before qualifying to be initiated and receive the secret teachings. In contrast, the very term "Catholic" means "universal", implying that anyone could become a member of the Church by adhering to the public teachings of faith and rituals. The Christian Gnostics were harsh critics of the orthodox Church. The Christian Gnostics accused the Church of watering down the gospel in order to popularize it for the masses. The orthodox Church stressed salvation through faith alone and by the rituals of the Church.

This secret gnosis emphasized spiritual "resurrection" (i.e,. spiritual rebirth) and physical "resurrection" (i.e., reincarnation) as opposed to a resurrection defined as people sleeping in their graves until it is time their corpses to crawl out of their graves at the last day. Christian Gnostics held the view that if spiritual resurrection was not attained in one lifetime, then the soul would be subjected to as many reincarnations as it takes until spiritual rebirth is attained.

One of the great Church leaders was Clement of Alexandria in Egypt (150-211 A.D.) who indicated that he possessed the secret teaching handed down from the apostles.

In the Gnostic text entitled The Secret Gospel of Mark, one of the Christian Gnostic texts discovered in 1945, describes Jesus performing secret initiation rituals. Before the discovery of this secret gospel, our only knowledge of it came from a letter written by Clement. Clement quotes from this secret gospel and refers to it as, "a more spiritual gospel for the use of those who were being perfected." He also states, "It even yet is most carefully guarded [by the church at Alexandria], being read only to those who are being initiated into the great mysteries." Clement mentions elsewhere that Jesus revealed a secret teaching to those who were "capable of receiving it and being molded by it" He also affirmed that, "The gnosis (secret knowledge) itself is that which has descended by transmission to a few, having been imparted unwritten by the apostles." (Miscell. Book VI, Chapter 7)

The existence of a secret teaching can be found in the New Testament:

“The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding…'” (Mark 4:11-12)

"He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (Matt. 13:11-12)

"We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began." (1 Cor. 2:6-8)

"So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God." (1 Cor. 4:1)

"At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure." (Matt. 11:25-26)

Paul wrote about teachings which are taught to spiritual "babies," teachings about righteousness for the more mature, and then teachings for the spiritually mature. Paul reveals this fact immediately after equating Melchizedek to Jesus by stating:

"We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. (Heb. 5:11-14)

According to tradition, after the Roman invasion of Jerusalem, the author of the Gospel of Mark established a church in Alexandria, Egypt. Mark may also have been the author of a "secret gospel" containing more advanced teaching for those being initiated into the Christian mysteries. This secret gospel contains passages portraying Jesus teaching secret doctrines.

The Champion for the Secret Teachings of Jesus

As the orthodox church in Rome gained more and more political power the more it viewed secret teachings as a threat to their own public teachings. But the Church leader who made the final and greatest attempt to revive the secret teachings of Jesus within the orthodox teachings was the first Church Father named Origen (183-253 A.D.) of Alexandria in Egypt who was a disciple of Clement of Alexandra. Origen was the first person since Paul to develop a system of theology around the teachings of Jesus. His effort was the first within the orthodox church to systematize a theology on so vast a scale. Although Origen defended orthodoxy, he included in his system the wisdom of the Christian Gnostics. His theology was a perfect synthesis of "orthodox" and "gnostic" teachings and came the closest to reviving the "Lost Christianity" of the original sects, communities and schools, at a time when the Christian Gnosticism was falling into disrepute. Unfortunately, hundreds of years later, the Church declared him a heretic and his teachings as heresy mostly because they affirmed preexistence and therefore reincarnation.

Origen had this to say about the secret teachings of Jesus:

“[Jesus] conversed with His disciples in private, and especially in their sacred retreats, concerning the Gospel of God; but the words which He uttered have not been preserved, because it appeared to the evangelists that they could not be adequately conveyed to the multitude in writing or in speech… and they saw… what things were to be committed to writing, and how this was to be done, and what was by no means to be written to the multitude, and what was to be expressed in words, and what was not to be so conveyed”. (Contra Celsus, Chap. VI. 18)

Concerning these secret teachings, Clement stated:

“James the Righteous, John and Peter were entrusted by the Lord after his resurrection with the higher knowledge. They imparted it to the other apostles, to the seventy…” (Outlines Book VI)

The Theology of Christian Gnosticism

According to Gnostic theology, a series of "falling away" from the Whole that is God occurred in eternity which resulted in all that there is today. After the first "fall", the divine consciousness descended to the level of the divided consciousness; now after another "fall", it has fallen even further, into the depths of the unconscious; it has been "forgotten." It is now humanity's privilege to discover the potential realms of human existence and face the great challenge of the "ascension of consciousness" through the Man-God-Spirit transformation.

Once souls fell into the lower levels of consciousness, they became enamored of it and burned with the desire to experience the pleasures of matter. The souls then no longer wanted to disengage itself from these lower levels. Thus the world was born. From that moment souls forgot themselves. They forgot they original habitation, their true center and eternal being.

Gnosticism proceeds from one fundamental insight: this world in which we find ourselves is thoroughly and irretrievably less than holy. The soul is trapped in a prison of flesh, and the flesh is intrinsically less than divine. According to Gnostic theology, the creation of the cosmos came about as the result of a tragicomic mistake: the fall of the soul from God. Thanks to the advent of Christ in the lower realms of consciousness, the power of reconciling the fallen souls has been given to restore the One-ness and usher in the kingdom of light over the kingdom of flesh and matter. The unity of the Godhead is assured thanks to the introduction of the new uniting force, the Logos, the part of God who acts in the flesh and the material. It is important to distinguish the Logos (Christ) from the soul named Jesus. Any person has the potential of becoming a Logos but it was the soul known as Jesus who actually incarnated as a Logos and therefore became a Christ on earth.

We, as humans, cannot comprehend the omnipotent power available to us until we utilize the Christ power. When we effectively use the divine "Christ awareness" we have the ability to help in the liberation of the imprisoned "sparks of divinity" from flesh and rejoin them to the Source. The divine plan of creation will become complete as the divine outpouring of Christ gnosis liberates humanity from ignorance. The result of this will be the redemption of all human beings.

The Christ power can only liberate souls through the call and revelation of Christ gnosis to, "Awake, remember who you are and where you come from!" But since the soul cannot by itself hear the gnosis, the Christ power resorts to elaborate strategies to create the conditions for which all souls will be saved.

Christian Gnostics felt that initiation into the Cosmic Christ gnosis is inseparable from "the light which lighteth every person coming into the world." It is this light within, our Higher Self, which each individual must bring to at-one-ment with the divine Source if liberation is to occur.

As more and more people hear the call to "Wake up!" and attain the Christ gnosis and become liberated, their souls are received back into the bosom of Divine Consciousness. The soul becomes free from unholy flesh and the cycle of birth and rebirth. Christian Gnostics seek to achieve this by cultivating the Higher Self within people to seek reunification with the Godhead. But each soul returning to its divine source must, after death, pass through the various levels of consciousness. Sometimes Christian Gnostics describe seven of these heavenly realms, other times ten.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen06.html

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Cayce was a fundamentalist Christian who was raised in strict nineteenth century Bible tradition. When he discovered that his subconscious information declared the ancient mystic religions to be true and acclaimed Jesus as their crowning glory, he suffered the greatest mental and emotional shock of his life. Cayce had only a seventh grade education and consciously knew nothing of what he said while in a deep trance-like state. He was only versed in the Bible and had no high school or college background of any kind. Up until his revelations, Cayce had never heard of the mystery religions. Yet the Cayce material agrees with everything about them that is known to be authentic. He spoke at length on Christian Gnosticism well before the Gnostic writings were discovered after his death. Cayce affirmed that Christian Gnosticism is the type of Christianity that was taught by Jesus. Much of the information from Cayce has solved some of the greatest mysteries of humanity, some of which were later validated after the discoveries of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the early Christian writings discovered in Egypt.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen049.html

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Christian Gnostic Writings

The quote from Jesus from the Christian Gnostic gospel, the Book of Thomas the Contender, describes Jesus teaching reincarnation:

"Watch and pray that you may not be born in the flesh, but that you may leave the bitter bondage of this life." (Book of Thomas the Contender 9:5)

In another part of the Book of Thomas the Contender, Jesus tells the disciple Thomas that after death, those people who were once believers but have remained attached to things of "transitory beauty," will be consumed "in their concern about life" and will be "brought back to the visible realm."

The following quote from Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas affirms Jesus teaching reincarnation to his disciples:

"When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will bear!" (Gospel of Thomas, saying 84)

More excerpts from this very interesting gospel will be profiled later.

In the Secret Book of John, written by 185 A.D. at the latest, reincarnation is placed at the center of the discussion concerning the salvation of souls. The following is a summary of the Secret Book of John's perspective on reincarnation.

Everyone has drunk from the water of forgetfulness and lives in a state of ignorance. Some people are able to overcome ignorance by having the life-giving Spirit descend upon them. These souls "will be saved and will become perfect," that is, escape the cycle of birth and rebirth. John asks Jesus what will happen to those who do not attain salvation. They are hurled down "into forgetfulness" and thrown into "prison," the Christian Gnostic symbol for a new body.

Jesus says the only way for these souls to escape is to acquire knowledge after coming from forgetfulness. A soul can accomplish this by finding a teacher who can lead the soul in the right direction:

"This soul needs to follow another soul in whom the Spirit of life dwells, because she is saved through the Spirit. Then she will never be thrust into flesh again." (Secret Book of John 14:20)

Another Christian Gnostic book, the Pistis Sophia (Greek for "Faith Wisdom"), outlines a system of punishment and rewards that includes reincarnation. The book explains the differences in one's fate as a result of past-life actions. A "man who curses" will be given a body that is continually "troubled in heart." A "man who slanders" will be given an "oppressed" body. A thief will be given a "lame, crooked and blind body." A "proud" and "scornful" man will be given "a lame and ugly body" that "everyone continually despises." From this, we can see how this earth, as well as hell, is a place of education through suffering.

According to the Pistis Sophia, some souls experience hell as a place of shadows and torture. However, after these souls pass through hell, they return to earth for further experiences. Only a relatively few extremely evil souls are not permitted to reincarnate. These souls are cast into "outer darkness" until a time when they are "destroyed and dissolved."

The Pistis Sophia combines the ideas of reincarnation and divine union in a verse beginning with the question:

"[What happens to] a man who has committed no sin, but done good persistently, but has not found the mysteries?" (Pistis Sophia)

The Pistis Sophia reveals such a soul will receive "a cup filled with thoughts and wisdom," allowing the soul to remember its divine origin and pursue the "mysteries of the light" until it finds them and is able to "inherit the light forever." To "inherit the light forever" is a Gnostic term for union with God.

In the Gospel of Phillip, Jesus makes a clear distinction between the resurrection of the spirit (i.e., spiritual rebirth) and the resurrection of the body (i.e., physical rebirth, reincarnation):

"People who say they will first die and then arise are mistaken. If they do not first receive resurrection while they are alive, once they have died they will receive nothing." (Gospel of Philip 73:1-4)

In the Apocryphal book, Wisdom of Solomon, recognized as canonical by the Catholic Church, is the following verse:

"I was given a sound body to live in because I was already good." (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20)

This verse raises the following question: How is it possible to get a body after you have already been good, unless reincarnation is true?

Among the works of the Christian Gnostics are some of the early gospels, including secret gospels which were not preserved in the New Testament. The Gospel of Thomas was the first gospel ever written and is considered by scholars to be the most reliable gospel. Much of this gospel contains sayings of Jesus that are contained in the four New Testament gospels.

The Christian Gnostic gospels reveal a clear and strong vision of the resurrection as a past and present event. Below is a verse from the Gospel of Thomas that shows the "resurrection" to be a past event:

"His followers said to him, 'When will the rest for the dead take place, and when will the new world come?' He said to them, 'What you look for has come, but you do not know it.'" (Gospel of Thomas, saying 51)

In the verse above, Jesus says the resurrection and the kingdom are already here. In Gnostic terms, this quote from Jesus refers to a person's past "resurrection" (i.e., physical rebirth, reincarnation) and the fact that we are already living in the kingdom of God which exists within us. Only through the Christ gnosis can this kingdom be realized and the cycle of resurrection end.

The sayings that are presented below are excerpts of the Gospel of Thomas that are not present in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

The Gospel of Thomas

"These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Judas Thomas the Twin recorded.

Jesus said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

Jesus said, "Let one who seeks not stop seeking until one finds. When one finds, one will be disturbed. When one is disturbed, one will be amazed, and will reign over all."

Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Behold, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds in the sky will get there before you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will get there before you. Rather, the kingdom is inside you and outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and embody poverty."

Jesus said, "Know what is within your sight, and what is hidden from you will become clear to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed."

Jesus said, "I have thrown fire on the world and, behold, I am guarding it until it is ablaze."

Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me with someone, and tell me whom I am like." Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a just angel." Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher." Thomas said to him, "Teacher, my mouth is utterly unable to say whom you are like." Jesus said, "I am not your teacher. You have become intoxicated because you have drunk from the bubbling spring that I have tended." And he took Thomas and withdrew, and told him three things. When Thomas came back to his friends, they asked him, "What did Jesus tell you?" Thomas said to them, "If I tell you even one of the things he told me, you will pick up rocks and stone me. Then fire will come forth from the rocks and devour you."

The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us about the end." Jesus said, "Have you already discovered the beginning, that now you can seek after the end? For where the beginning is, the end will be. Blessed is one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end, and will not taste death."
Jesus said, "Blessed is one who came to life before coming to life."

Jesus said, "If you become my disciples and hearken to my sayings, these stones will serve you."

Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male and the female will not be female, when you make eyes replacing an eye, a hand replacing a hand, a foot replacing a foot, and an image replacing an image, then you will enter the kingdom."

Jesus said, "Blessed are those who are alone and chosen: you will find the kingdom. For you have come from it, and you will return there again."

His disciples said to him, "When will the final rest for the dead take place, and when will the new world come?" He said to them, "What you look for has already come, but you do not know it."

Jesus said, "I disclose my mysteries to those who are worthy of my mysteries. Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing."

Jesus said, "Whoever knows everything but lacks within lacks everything."

Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you will kill you."

Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: all came forth from me, and all attained to me. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Pick up a stone, and you will find me there."

Jesus said, "Whoever is close to me is close to the fire, and whoever is far from me is far from the kingdom."

Jesus said, "Images are visible to people, but the light within is hidden in the Father's image of light. He will reveal himself, but his image is hidden by his light."

Jesus said, "When you see a likeness of yourself, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you, and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will be able to tolerate!"

Jesus said, "When you make the two into one, you will become sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move!' it will move."

Jesus said, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will be like me, and I shall be that person, and what is hidden will be revealed to that one."

Jesus says, "Whoever finds self is worth more than the world."

His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?" "It will not come by looking for it. Nor will it do to say, 'Behold, over here!' or 'Behold, over there!' Rather, the kingdom of the Father is spread out on the earth, but people do not see it." (Gospel of Thomas)


Wow!!!!!

I am so moved I am crying right now!
I have been praying, my soul was tormented, and I am so glad I found this!

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Jesus is LOVE.

End of story.

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Our life is frittered away by detail.
Simplify, simplify, simplify!
Simplicity of life and elevation of purpose.

- Thoreau

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I need to know where we are from, and why we are here. I need guidance, because I feel tormented by the veil, by this world of illusion.

At last....I feel it is coming together.

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
The Gospel of Thomas is definitely worth reading, if you havent yet.

It is very similar to many of the greatest Eastern texts.

But, if you know what you are looking for, you can find all the same stuff in the Bible.

Or, for that matter, right in front of you.

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I will do, I just have my own little Thomas to take care of.

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
The Bible lacks so much.....I'm definitely going to get into this material more.

If you haven't seen the documentary, I insist you do- it's definitely an eye opener!

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
The Bible lacks very little.

The problem is not so much what it lacks, as what it has too much of.

There is much superfluous information and misinformation in the Bible.

That is why we must all learn to read the spirit, not the letter; the Word, not the words.

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
The Gospel of Thomas is definitely worth reading, if you havent yet.

It is very similar to many of the greatest Eastern texts.


Exactly.

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Have you read the Gospels?

Matthew, Luke, and John all contain priceless gems, --
many of them equal to, if not surpassing, the words of the Eastern sages.

I find those three gospels incredibly profound, and equally poetic.

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/sermononthemount.html

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Knowflake

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posted April 03, 2008 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I tried reading some of Matthew last night, but it made me depressed because it came across as bossy and dogmatic. So I've spent today feeling tormented by all these questions- was Jesus a good guy or a bad guy? Was he just here to manipulate people?

And then I came across the information I posted here......

It told me what I wanted to know.

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 03, 2008 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I haven't gone near a Bible much since I was 14, when I left the Mormon Church after a year there and looked elsewhere for answers (most of all within as opposed to reading).

I get a lot more from the words I posted here than any other words I've read in the Bible or Book of Mormon.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 8620
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted April 03, 2008 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Awesome!

I'm not trying to criticize that.

And I'm sorry if it came across that way.

I think some of the sayings attributed to Jesus in the Gospels are not his own words or sentiments.

So, yes, it can be daunting, and more obscure, but there is buried treasure in them thar hills!

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 8620
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted April 03, 2008 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Also,

Jesus may have been imperfect...

But, even if he was, the Christ is perfect.

The Spirit speaks thru all of us, at times.

At other times, our personal limitations distort and pervert the message.

But, the Christ spoke thru Jesus very strongly, many times.

We should listen for the Christ.

As it is said, "Think with your heart, and feel with your head."

Then, it is not so difficult to see what is Christ and what is error.

No matter where you look for wisdom, you will find falsehood mixed in with the truth.


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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 5196
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 03, 2008 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
What is so amazing is that these Gnostic teachings and teachings from the Gospel of Thomas fall into line with what my own soul has been saying to me.

Yes, we should always look to our higher selves, but those who have been more fully illuminated than we have may guide us along the way, and after finding these two sources of information, I feel Jesus was one of the greatest teachers to assist us with this.

You should see the "Fabric of Time" documentary now- it isn't very long.

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 5196
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 03, 2008 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
"Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will open".

Only a few days ago I wanted to know about Jesus; whether he lived; and the answers have come....somehow.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 8620
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted April 03, 2008 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Everything is holy. A line crossed out is a bible unseen. The scriptures are woven with jewels, and all of them rejected. Even to discover them is to reject them.
Every discovered jewel is a rejected star. Every star is a rejected sun. Every sun the center of a cosmos. Sages abandon themselves in this orbital dance and are senseless.
...

True words are many layered, and many secrets go undiscovered when any secret is disturbed. The noonday sun shuts out from our sight a thousand stars.
Love keeps all secrets. For the only secret is love, and the only mystery is our ignorance and indifference to love.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 8620
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted April 03, 2008 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Careful you dont confuse fact with Truth.

Jesus may have lived, or he may not have.

But we know that Christ never lived and never died.

Christ lives!

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Unmoved
Moderator

Posts: 1787
From: Born in S.Africa
Registered: Jun 2007

posted April 03, 2008 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Sorry to change the subject but I have got his digits for you, but he is a sensitive man. I will give them to you as promised. it is his wife's number's as she is his assistant. But, do not contact him if you are going to play around with him, ya know...

So, should I send it to you via myspace, love?

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 5196
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 03, 2008 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Funny, I was thinking about him today, Unmoved.

I'm not sure.
I'm extremely shy on the phone.
I would need to feel sure of what I was gong to ask him first; I would feel intrusive otherwise...I would want to make it worthwhile and all.

I'll leave it for now, but thanks.

You're an angel.

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Unmoved
Moderator

Posts: 1787
From: Born in S.Africa
Registered: Jun 2007

posted April 03, 2008 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Very strange how you were thinking of him... well, I have saved it in my files now so there is no way of losing it again. So, when you want it, give us a shout, ok?

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