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Author Topic:   Archetypes and astrology
Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 21731
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011

posted February 16, 2015 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith        Reply w/Quote
We were talking about this on another thread; rather than derailing that one, I'm starting over here. Just gathering links and opinions, to get a better handle on it.

--

An Introduction to Archetypal Astrological Analysis

Richard Tarnas, Ph.D.

quote:
The basic principle of astrology is that the planets have a fundamental, cosmically based connection to specific archetypal forces or principles which influence human existence, and that the patterns formed by the planets in the heavens bear a meaningful correspondence to the patterns of human affairs on the Earth. In terms of individuals, the positions of the planets at the time and place of a person's birth are regarded as corresponding to the basic archetypal patterns of that person's life and character.

Astrology makes possible a further understanding of one's life-- its cycles, its ups and downs, the crises and the breakthroughs, the periods of major change and transformation--through the study of transits. Transits occur when the planets currently in the sky form certain geometrical patterns with respect to the planetary positions at one's birth. The nature of those patterns--which planets are involved and how they are positioned--appears to correlate in a strikingly consistent way with the archetypal character of the experiences one tends to have at that time.

--

First, what is an archetype? Archetypes can be understood and described in many ways, and in fact much of the history of Western thought from Plato and Aristotle onward has been concerned with this very question. But for our present purposes, we can define an archetype as a universal principle or force that affects--impels, structures, permeates--the human psyche and human behavior on many levels. One can think of them as primordial instincts, as Freud did, or as transcendent first principles as Plato did, or as gods of the psyche as James Hillman does. Archetypes (for example, Venus or Mars) seem to have a transcendent, mythic quality, yet they also have very specific psychological expressions--as in the desire for love and the experience of beauty (Venus), or the impulse toward forceful activity and aggression (Mars). Moreover, archetypes seem to work from both within and without, for they can express themselves as impulses and images from the interior psyche, yet also as events and situations in the external world.

Jung thought of archetypes as the basic constituents of the human psyche, shared cross-culturally by all human beings, and he regarded them as universal expressions of a collective unconscious. Much earlier, the Platonic tradition considered archetypes to be not only psychological but also cosmic and objective, as primordial forms of a Universal Mind that transcended the human psyche. Astrology would appear to support the Platonic view as well as the Jungian, since it gives evidence that Jungian archetypes are not only visible in human psychology, in human experience and behavior, but are also linked to the macrocosm itself--to the planets and their movements in the heavens. Astrology thus supports the ancient idea of an anima mundi, or world soul, in which the human psyche participates. From this perspective, what Jung called the collective unconscious can be viewed as being ultimately embedded within the cosmos itself.


Bold mine.

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Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 21731
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011

posted February 16, 2015 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith        Reply w/Quote
Continuing on, same article:

quote:
The issue of free will vs. determinism: It used to be believed that astrology revealed a person's destined fate, that the birth chart was rigidly deterministic. Properly understood, however, astrology can serve to greatly increase personal freedom, rather than limit it. Partly this is because awareness of the basic archetypal structures and patterns of meaning in one's birth chart allows one to bring considerably more consciousness to the task of fulfilling one's deepest potential, one's authentic nature. But astrology's emancipatory character also derives from the fact that the more deeply we understand the archetypal forces that affect our lives, the more free we can be in our dealings with them. If we are altogether unconscious of these potent forces, we are like puppets of the archetypes: we then act according to unconscious motivations without any possibility of our being intelligent agents interacting with those forces. To the exact extent that we are conscious of the archetypes, we can respond with greater autonomy and self-awareness. This is of course the whole rationale for depth psychology, from Freud and Jung onward--to become conscious of the unconscious, to release ourselves from the bondage of blind action, to explore and experience the hidden forces in the human psyche. Astrology's great merit is that it seems to reveal very precisely which archetypes are especially important for each person, how they interact with each other, and when and how they are most likely to be expressed in the course of each life.

Related to this issue is the question of our birth, and how random is the fate by which we are assigned something as weighty as the birth chart with its specific configuration of planets. I personally believe that the circumstances of our birth are not accidental, but are in some sense a consequence of our spiritual and karmic character. Like many others, I have come to believe that we choose the circumstances of our lives, we choose the family and culture and age into which we are born, and that this choice is somehow made from a higher level of our spiritual being than that of which we are usually conscious.

From this point of view, the birth chart is not the randomly allotted prison-structure of our inexorable fate, but can be seen rather as defining the basic structure of our potential unfolding--suggesting the personal gifts and trials that we have chosen for this lifetime to work with and evolve through. Astrology illuminates the fundamental archetypal dynamics that profoundly condition our lives, which is not to say they absolutely determine our lives. Because our personal response to life always contains an element of unpredictability and potential freedom, and because astrology gives a greater understanding of our basic archetypal complexes and their timing, then a knowledge of our birth chart and transits can significantly increase the range of options, flexibility, and intelligence with which we approach life. The study of astrology can be extraordinarily liberating.


The whole article is worth reading. And I like the concluding paragraph:

quote:
And herein lies the importance of astrological insight, for the very act of knowing the nature of the particular archetypes that are seeking to manifest, combined with an awareness of their potential timing, can play a significant role in positively influencing the outcome. Then life becomes more of a dance--a subtle interaction between archetypal forces and human awareness, a play of consciousness between the gods and the human mind and will and heart which they inform.

Tarnas' biography and chart: http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Richard_Tarnas

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Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 21731
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011

posted February 16, 2015 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith        Reply w/Quote
Resource:
Archai: The Journal of Archetypal Cosmology

http://archaijournal.org/index.html

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PlutoSurvivor
Knowflake

Posts: 2393
From: USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted February 17, 2015 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSurvivor        Reply w/Quote
A simple definition of an archetype is a pattern. Astrology shows the 12 astrological principles which indicate the patterns from which we are created. The combination and proportioning of these patterns give us our uniqueness. Understanding the patterns helps us understand ourselves. This is so valuable to reaching the core of our being.

Thank you for emphasizing archetypes as a way of understanding ourselves.

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Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 21731
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011

posted February 18, 2015 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith        Reply w/Quote
Well said, Pluto Survivor. Thanks

Though I am still fumbling about, trying to get a handle on the concept of archetypes. The word is often used in astrological discussions in a way that is at odds with my previous understanding of the word. So, in short, I am confused.

For example, I was watching this interview with Steven Forrest and Mark Jones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkbKory4ANw

Every time they use the word "archetype" or "archetypally" I think, "Those words are just superfluous. I would have said the same thing, just leaving out those words."

I don't mean to accuse people of sounding ostentatious, but.....until I get a better understanding, that's really how it sounds to me.

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7thGuardian
Knowflake

Posts: 1479
From: Transylvania
Registered: May 2012

posted February 22, 2015 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7thGuardian        Reply w/Quote
There's a theory where - at birth we're like an empty vessel and what with put in (our personal experience) - defines the content of the vessel, while the shape is defined by our genes (as inherited from our parents). Well, this theory is partially wrong - because the vessel is not empty. And that's where the archetypes come into picture. As we already have the archetypes within ourselves - within our subconscious, but - each of them is dormant and they need a certain kind of experience to awaken - while latter (as depicted by other experiences - specific to a certain archetype) - to evolve in a certain direction. It's also worth adding that - each archetype is like Yin and Yang (light and darkness) and depending on the experience (negative or positive) - the archetype manifests differently within ourselves. In astrology - each planet, each zodiac sign and each house stands for an archetype - which is suppose to define a stage of awakening based on planetary transits - starting with the natal placements (which are suppose to be the most influential part of our individuality). I hope this makes some sense.

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Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 21731
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011

posted February 23, 2015 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith        Reply w/Quote
^^

Never heard any of that before.

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PlutoSurvivor
Knowflake

Posts: 2393
From: USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted May 09, 2015 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSurvivor        Reply w/Quote
If you think of an archytype as a pattern, and then look at the orbit or path of the planets as a pattern, then the pattern, or orbit, determines our destiny. That's because it is a fixed determination of cycle. Destiny equals orbit, orbit equals destiny.

But destiny and fate are two different things. How we handle our destiny is determined by our fate. destiny can cross the paths of two people but fate determines the outcome. Therefore, our destiny is fixed at birth, because it is our pattern of orbit how we are programmed to relate to everything else around us. When you choose your own fate, it could be contrary to destiny. Understanding your destiny/pattern/orbit helps you determine your own fate.

So the point is, that at our moment of birth our pattern, or destiny is set, but as our vessel fills with life experience, based on how we choose to handle our destiny, we determine our own fate.

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 76360
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 10, 2015 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PlutoSurvivor:
If you think of an archytype as a pattern, and then look at the orbit or path of the planets as a pattern, then the pattern, or orbit, determines our destiny. That's because it is a fixed determination of cycle. Destiny equals orbit, orbit equals destiny.

But destiny and fate are two different things. How we handle our destiny is determined by our fate. destiny can cross the paths of two people but fate determines the outcome. Therefore, our destiny is fixed at birth, because it is our pattern of orbit how we are programmed to relate to everything else around us. When you choose your own fate, it could be contrary to destiny. Understanding your destiny/pattern/orbit helps you determine your own fate.

So the point is, that at our moment of birth our pattern, or destiny is set, but as our vessel fills with life experience, based on how we choose to handle our destiny, we determine our own fate.


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juniperb
Moderator

Posts: 10143
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2017 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
There's a theory where - at birth we're like an empty vessel and what with put in (our personal experience) - defines the content of the vessel, while the shape is defined by our genes (as inherited from our parents). Well, this theory is partially wrong - because the vessel is not empty. And that's where the archetypes come into picture. As we already have the archetypes within ourselves - within our subconscious, but - each of them is dormant and they need a certain kind of experience to awaken - while latter (as depicted by other experiences - specific to a certain archetype) - to evolve in a certain direction. It's also worth adding that - each archetype is like Yin and Yang (light and darkness) and depending on the experience (negative or positive) - the archetype manifests differently within ourselves. In astrology - each planet, each zodiac sign and each house stands for an archetype - which is suppose to define a stage of awakening based on planetary transits - starting with the natal placements (which are suppose to be the most influential part of our individuality). I hope this makes some sense.

This is very close to what the sufis believe.
We all have archtypes and corresponding awakings to brig the archtype to a higher level.

------------------
Partial truth~the seeds of wisdom~can be found in many places...The seeds of wisdom are contained in all scriptures ever written… especially in art, music, and poetry and, above all, in Nature.

Linda Goodman

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