posted November 26, 2015 12:37 AM            

First off, the calendar system is screwed up and has been screwed up for hundreds of years; and the ACTUAL number of the year or even the day of the month it is could technically be totally off. I know that most numerologists say that "well it is 2015 according to mass consciousness" but is it really?? And do numbers have ENERGY behind them?? I get that they are the foundation of mathematics and several people who invented things used mathematics to help, but what have numbers done that is actually truthfully "magical" to speak of?

Like honestly it seems so classist and awful. If everyone in this world believed in numerology (including the kings and queens of other countries) don't you think it would lead to people being considered better than others even if they truly aren't? Like if someone was born under the life path 33 they would automatically get a spot in the higher class of society while the person born with a life path of 2 would be left in the streets.

Like the idea that someone with a life path of 33 has more potential than someone with a life path of 2 seems totally irrational to me. I feel like it's the beginning of the end, and we're all going to have barcodes assigned to us according to our numerology chart and we're going to be sold out according to who has the best numbers. Like women will be competing to birth a child with the most master numbers or something ridiculous like that.

posted November 26, 2015 01:02 AM            

In America with the numerology system we use and the day/night cycles apparently I was born 2/18/1994 at 1:27 A.M.

So 2 + (1+8) 9 + (1+9+9+4) 5 = 16/7

16/7 is a karmic debt number and means I'm totally selfish and probably awful and destructive and in my past life I hurt others

BUT, in India, the way they add their numbers and the day/night cycles I would technically be born 2/17/1994 (they consider the beginning of the day to be when the sun rises, so it would still be the day before)

And 2+1+7+1+9+9+4 = 33/6

SO APPARENTLY IN AMERICA I AM AWFUL AND KARMICALLY INDEBTED BUT IN INDIA I AM FANTASTIC AND HAVE THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF SPIRITUAL POTENTIAL A HUMAN CAN HAVE

posted November 26, 2015 01:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
Also someone please answer my post or add to this I'm getting lonely just going back and forth with myself.

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Only because you made an emphatic request. Frankly, gematria & numerology doesn't interest me that much, and the only reason I clicked on this thread was because the title was so bizarre to me that it got me curious.

And don't be surprised when Randall or lalalinda moves this thread to Uni-versal Codes or While The Soul Slumbers.

As for numerology, the basic idea in the West (can't speak for the Chinese and Japanese systems involving numbers and meanings) is similar to astrology, which is based on As Above, So Below: this is not only used in magic, but also divination. I don't think you know what I'm talking about, and more importantly, I think your actual question regards ethics and your feelings more than the why and wherefores of numerology, so I'll just say it's based on correspondences as well as macrocosm & microcosm, and as numbers are a natural part of Creation. That is to say, numbers (and math) were discovered, not invented, not at all arbitrary, so they're seen as manifestations of certain higher truths, and by understanding those connections more then divination (as numerology), and even magic, can be used.

As to your feelings, I don't see it as you do. Some people have it harder than others, but out of such difficulties, one can rise ever higher than those who get to coast. Hardship is a burden to some, and opportunity to others. That is to say someone with a "2" in this case would have a "higher difficulty setting" than the one born a "33" yet if the "2" overcomes their challenges then they'll be better off than the "33" who can coast (and 33 would be tempted to coast, because life is easy)

And this: "16/7 is a karmic debt number and means I'm totally selfish and probably awful and destructive and in my past life I hurt others."

I couldn't care less what you did in a previous life, a ship doesn't sail on yesterday's winds. You could've been a saint then and a mass murderer in this one, and vice versa. It's like you're saying if someone was evil in a past life then they must be evil in this life, and that makes no sense to me. But then you also seem to believe (or think it implies) that the cosmos is "just" in a HUMAN way, and that I do not believe, nor could I. I believe in karma, just not in that way, and karma to me is a blind machine, the innocent get punished along with the guilty, and sometimes more than the guilty, and I think it takes a very selective vision to not see that. But really, even if the cosmos is "just in the human understanding" then are we going to punish a baby for who they were in a previous life, or try to raise them to be better in this life?

posted November 26, 2015 02:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Only because you made an emphatic request. Frankly, gematria & numerology doesn't interest me that much, and the only reason I clicked on this thread was because the title was so bizarre to me that it got me curious.

And don't be surprised when Randall or lalalinda moves this thread to Uni-versal Codes or While The Soul Slumbers.

As for numerology, the basic idea in the West (can't speak for the Chinese and Japanese systems involving numbers and meanings) is similar to astrology, which is based on As Above, So Below: this is not only used in magic, but also divination. I don't think you know what I'm talking about, and more importantly, I think your actual question regards ethics and your feelings more than the why and wherefores of numerology, so I'll just say it's based on correspondences as well as macrocosm & microcosm, and as numbers are a natural part of Creation. That is to say, numbers (and math) were discovered, not invented, not at all arbitrary, so they're seen as manifestations of certain higher truths, and by understanding those connections more then divination (as numerology), and even magic, can be used.

As to your feelings, I don't see it as you do. Some people have it harder than others, but out of such difficulties, one can rise ever higher than those who get to coast. Hardship is a burden to some, and opportunity to others. That is to say someone with a "2" in this case would have a "higher difficulty setting" than the one born a "33" yet if the "2" overcomes their challenges then they'll be better off than the "33" who can coast (and 33 would be tempted to coast, because life is easy).

And this: "16/7 is a karmic debt number and means I'm totally selfish and probably awful and destructive and in my past life I hurt others."

I couldn't care less what you did in a previous life, a ship doesn't sail on yesterday's winds. You could've been a saint then and a mass murderer in this one, and vice versa. It's like you're saying if someone was evil in a past life then they must be evil in this life, and that makes no sense to me. But then you also seem to believe (or think it implies) that the cosmos is "just" in a HUMAN way, and that I do not believe, nor could I. I believe in karma, just not in that way, and karma to me is a blind machine, the innocent get punished along with the guilty, and sometimes more than the guilty, and I think it takes a very selective vision to not see that. But really, even if the cosmos is "just in the human understanding" then are we going to punish a baby for who they were in a previous life, or try to raise them to be better in this life?

If you need someone to agree with you that numerology is as you describe it to not feel lonely, then I'll have to disappoint you, because I just don't see it the way you do.

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Okay well I appreciate your response but I wasn't looking for an agreement or else I would have been much less opinionated to begin with. Not to mention the post overall was more of a way for me to get people to bounce ideas around about why numbers hold such significance for us especially on a spiritual level rather than it was a question. So please don't speak to me as though I'm petty and you're lending me theoretical insight that my mind otherwise wouldn't be capable of.

But I do understand the concept of "As Above, So Below" and I have been studying accepted universal knowledge as well as the general outlines of alchemy as of late. But to me, why are numbers even numbers? Like why do we decide that numbers operate in sets of 10 and who is to say that there is not a single digit numeral that remains undiscovered? Would that even be possible? And if it were possible, in which ways would it influence the entire concept of numbers and patterns?

posted November 26, 2015 02:10 AM            

quote:

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I feel like it's the beginning of the end, and we're all going to have barcodes assigned to us according to our numerology chart and we're going to be sold out according to who has the best numbers

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Don't worry.

This will never happen.

posted November 26, 2015 02:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Don't worry.

This will never happen.

Please try yoga for relaxation techniques!

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posted November 26, 2015 02:13 AM            

The question you should ask yourself is - why has this become such an obsession in your life and why is the thought of this affecting you to such an extent?

posted November 26, 2015 02:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
Hahahaha, thank you for that

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posted November 26, 2015 02:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Honestly, it simply will not happen!

The question you should ask yourself is - why has this become such an obsession in your life and why is the thought of this affecting you to such an extent?

You need relaxation, distraction... Do something fun... I don't know... Try to focus on something more positive...

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posted November 26, 2015 02:31 AM            

Both Numerology and Astrology have been around for hundreds and hundreds of years, in varied cultures... and this has not happened yet.

posted November 26, 2015 02:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
Um, I would say it's become such an obsession because from what I read at first it all seemed accurate but the more I dig into it the less and less accurate it seems and the more it seems like it's aimed at trying to explain the unexplainable in a way that doesn't honor mankind. Like I did a reading for my friend and her little brother and her chart was FULL of master numbers and his chart was FULL of karmic debt numbers and I felt terrible having to explain to this younger kid that his chart technically isn't good from a numerologists perspective. It was kind of heart breaking for me, and I see numerology and astrology on the rise, so I'm beginning to feel like it's going to take hold and people are truly going to believe in this kind of stuff partially because I did at first.

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posted November 26, 2015 02:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
^ Well... look at it this way!

Both Numerology and Astrology have been around for hundreds and hundreds of years, in varied cultures... and this has not happened yet.

So what are the odds that it would - suddenly - lead to such mass hysteria now, in our generation?

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posted November 26, 2015 02:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Geminiyoungster:
I would like to say that you have it wrong when it comes to somethings. Some numerology numbers have it harder than others, but everybody has potential. I would go by your expression number. When I read my expression, which is 11, I almost had to hit the the back button because of how accurate it was..

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posted November 26, 2015 05:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
What does DP mean? Also of course you believe in it, everyone wants to be an 11 that's like a thing

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Dp means double post! I mistaked and posted two times. And really, I cant believe that people want to be a personality or expression number 11. Its a hard number to have and live up to and you come off like a martian/maverick to a lot people. I get this all the time.. It can sometimes get lonely with this expression and personality number.. The reason why I started to believe in numerology because number 11 is dominant in astrology and numerology..My birth-time even equals 11..

A lot of scientist and celebrities that have people not liking them has this number. If i had it my way, i would be a life path 3 with a number 4/22 expression number, haha!

posted November 26, 2015 07:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Geminiyoungster:
Dp means double post! I mistaked and posted two times. And really, I cant believe that people want to be a personality or expression number 11. Its a hard number to have and live up to and you come off like a martian/maverick to a lot people. I get this all the time.. It can sometimes get lonely with this expression and personality number.. The reason why I started to believe in numerology because number 11 is dominant in astrology and numerology..My birth-time even equals 11..

A lot of scientist and celebrities that have people not liking them has this number. If i had it my way, i would be a life path 3 with a number 4/22 expression number, haha!

Since you question numerology so much, whats your numbers. I would love too see all of them.
http://www.freetarot.com/numerology/expression-number/ http://www.freetarot.com/numerology/minor-expression-number/
http://www.freetarot.com/numerology/life-path/ http://www.freetarot.com/numerology/personality-number/

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I do understand the martian feeling & people not liking you my first pinnacle (which I'm still in) is an 11. But my expression is 12/3, hearts desire 12/3, personality 18/9, life path 16/7, and birth day 18/9.

And I do question its validity a lot only because I see human qualities in all of the numbers that we all have within us and I don't believe a master number has more potential than a karmic debt number and vice versa.

posted November 27, 2015 01:05 AM            

Some ideologies wanted to better social conditions others wanted to help mankind to find a path spiritually. But they ended enslaving people.

Regarding numerology and astrology becoming this thing you describe with people prefering certain dates to give birth and so on is the misuse of those tools. That is not what astrology or numerology are here for. Having said that anyone having some info is likely to do something about it to a certain extent but i don't think we can out manouver the universe.

For someone spiritual, not just using spirituality, nothing is bad, like your exemple of being born on the 13.

if someone miss the point and believe it is a bad date to be born, does it invalidate the truth of astrology ?
or does it invalidate his understanding of astrology ?
or may be it questions the understanding he has of himself.

Personnally my numbers and astrology aren't ideals. I don't have everything perfect in this field, but i have lucidity. Sometimes it hurts to be lucid but life does hurt with or withot the numbers so i rather understand why it hurts... One thing is sure, everyone hurts, regardless his numbers. No matter the reason, the hurt is the same, so no matter one's number, the exprience of the hurt is the same although for different reasons

I felt moved by your reaction, as a fellow aqua, born on feb 7th, with my south node near your sun. I just want to reassure you for the part regarding the good of mankind.
And for the readings to others, well that's the risk when we do that. Ask yourself why you want to do that, and if it is necessary ?
You sound youthfull ( and the kid brother of your friend made me think you were young) it is the zeal of the newly converted that probably motivated you. When i discovered astrology i did the same to my friends and family, luckily they found me a bit silly :-)
Take care

Ps: i don't condemn anyone here. I just state my relationship with esoteric wisdoms. To each is own
Beside my point of view changes every now and ... Zen...

posted November 27, 2015 07:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
The problem with an ideology is what you describe.

Some ideologies wanted to better social conditions others wanted to help mankind to find a path spiritually. But they ended enslaving people.

Regarding numerology and astrology becoming this thing you describe with people prefering certain dates to give birth and so on is the misuse of those tools. That is not what astrology or numerology are here for. Having said that anyone having some info is likely to do something about it to a certain extent but i don't think we can out manouver the universe.

For someone spiritual, not just using spirituality, nothing is bad, like your exemple of being born on the 13.

if someone miss the point and believe it is a bad date to be born, does it invalidate the truth of astrology ?
or does it invalidate his understanding of astrology ?
or may be it questions the understanding he has of himself.

Personnally my numbers and astrology aren't ideals. I don't have everything perfect in this field, but i have lucidity. Sometimes it hurts to be lucid but life does hurt with or withot the numbers so i rather understand why it hurts... One thing is sure, everyone hurts, regardless his numbers. No matter the reason, the hurt is the same, so no matter one's number, the exprience of the hurt is the same although for different reasons

I felt moved by your reaction, as a fellow aqua, born on feb 7th, with my south node near your sun. I just want to reassure you for the part regarding the good of mankind.
And for the readings to others, well that's the risk when we do that. Ask yourself why you want to do that, and if it is necessary ?
You sound youthfull ( and the kid brother of your friend made me think you were young) it is the zeal of the newly converted that probably motivated you. When i discovered astrology i did the same to my friends and family, luckily they found me a bit silly :-)
Take care

Ps: i don't condemn anyone here. I just state my relationship with esoteric wisdoms. To each is own
Beside my point of view changes every now and ... Zen...

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I appreciate your response and I don't want to condone you for your thoughts, I just want to debate them in a mature way that makes sense. And to what you said, I would agree that I am youthful, however I consider myself more of a Pisces than I do an Aquarius. My sun sign is at the anaretic degree of Aquarius and I have 3 planets making conjunctions to it that are located in the early degrees of Pisces.

In regards to what you said about how you can't out-maneuver the universe, I would like to agree with you on that one and note that I think that's technically what astrology and numerology are attempting to do to begin with. Focusing on patterns and ways to get around those patterns are a means of out-maneuvering what shouldn't be maneuvered to begin with, because patterns are always subject to change, and no matter what, we are going to fall short in our predictions.

Much of the modern work surrounding astrology and numerology is prediction-based, and they always state "if you know what's coming in the future you can better prepare for it" but I'm personally beginning to feel that that isn't true, and it's actually limiting and hindering people's own views of what they are capable of doing and what's being offered to them. Anybody in this universe is incapable of achieving what a 22/33 could achieve, in my personal opinion, regardless of whether or not they have a 22/33 in their chart. Most numerologists (from my experience) wouldn't agree with such a statement. So in reality, the only difference is that the individual with a 22/33 in their chart received more support and encouragement to do so than someone without.

On the other side of the same coin, telling someone with a life path of 16/7 that all of the things they work towards are most likely going to eventually fail isn't doing anyone any good and it's in fact quite hurtful. Trust me, after reading the definition of my karmic debt the first few times I was actually incredibly depressed and still kind of am. I'm depressed that there are individuals who share this information with others in hopes that it will somehow help them, when in reality it's probably doing quite the opposite. I was doing amazing before studying numerology, but since studying it and seeing how biased it is, I'm beginning to hate myself for ever even researching it.

Of course, a lot of this is my own personal hurt; I just want to be able to share my opinion of it in case if someone else finds themselves in the position I'm in, which is feeling like my life has been imprisoned by a theoretical outlook of numbers which may or may not be true.

posted November 27, 2015 09:33 PM            

One liitle thought i gad was of the " force" in star wars. The comparison is not perfect but in both cases, it is not it that is the issue.

Will get back later,