posted August 16, 2009 08:21 PM         

is this down to some particular placement or aspect, house ruler? or planet in house?

any IDeas?

posted August 16, 2009 08:26 PM         

A persons intelligence/mind controls everything we do, apart from us blokes who think with something else

posted August 16, 2009 08:46 PM         

like Michael Brown said

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

mythological Eris made humans quarrel and fight by making them think their opinions are right and others' are wrong.

It might also fit with debating.

it fits with divergent views...as well diversity of viewpoints which aren't necessarily tolerated by others

In Eris' discovery chart,
Mercury-Venus-Pluto conjunction in Sagittarius in 9th

I'd look at the heliocentric nodes of Uranus,Mars,and Eris too.

in my own chart
Uranus Nodes square Ascendant/Descendant axis - '25
Mars Nodes oppose/conjunct Mercury - '39
Eris Nodes oppose/conjunct Sun - '10

I also have Eris sextile Gemini Midheaven with 1'01 orb, quincunx Virgo Ascendant with 1'12 orb,and biquintile Mercury in Scorpio in 3rd with 6 minutes of arc

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 16, 2009 08:56 PM         

or conjunct pluto in the ninth?

square mercury?

posted August 16, 2009 08:57 PM         

quote:

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maybe mercury square uranus or mars?

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Definitely Mercury square Mars, I know a few of them who like to argue for no reason = verbal masturbation IMO. Some are quick witted & very intelligent but seem to love "oral sparring". The ones I know also shout, they're not physically tough though, it's usually a case of their bark being worse than their bite.

I know couple of people with Sun conjunct Mercury who argue a lot.

posted August 16, 2009 09:03 PM         

maybe if some one has eris in the 9th house, aspecting venus or pluto?

or conjunct pluto in the ninth?

square mercury?"

yeah....but doesn't have to be 9th house placements. It doesn't have to be venus,pluto aspects.....nor a Mercury aspect
doesn't have to be a square nor any other hard aspect for that matter
It could be a prominent Eris like Sun conjunct Eris or Eris Node or Ascendant square Eris or Eris Nodes....even trines,sextiles involving

soft aspects like trines and sextiles can be misused and can end up problematic.

I only pointed out the Mercury-Venus-Pluto conjunction in Sagittarius in 9th as it fits with Eris is about...the intensity,power issues,nonconformity involving as well as intense,nonconforming view and intense,nonconforming valuing of views,opinions,and beliefs ....especially when it comes to religion,philosophy,race

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 16, 2009 09:12 PM         

Loss of innocence, entrance into adulthood; child's trauma being separated from parent; acceptance of unavoidable changes; dying and being reborn (as opposed to Pluto which rules the causes/processes of death and rebirth); internal split causing longing to be whole, the longing of the soul for its other half; the subject/object of a debate, argument, competition, conflict or war...what stirs people to fight or disagree; fighting for one's rights; strife and discord; pitting one side against the other; competition, contests and tournaments; struggles for supremacy; rivalry; a test of skills or abilities; love of fighting or debate; what one has at stake in a competition, dispute or conflict, or one's perspective of what is being fought over; refusing to relinquish one's hold on an ideal, belief, cause, or object...'not budging an inch'; the problems resulting from irreconcilable differences; contrasting different perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic; identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles; incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box; the ethics connected with one's motives and methods, and the coming to light of less than spotless methods; the roots of one's motivations; piracy, defrauding, swindling; society's ethics; race intent.
http://zanestein.com/keywords.html#Eris

The following Eris keywords fit with the thread

the subject/object of a debate, argument, competition, conflict or war...what stirs people to fight or disagree

strife and discord; pitting one side against the other; competition, contests and tournaments; struggles for supremacy; rivalry; a test of skills or abilities; love of fighting or debate; what one has at stake in a competition, dispute or conflict, or one's perspective of what is being fought over; refusing to relinquish one's hold on an ideal, belief, cause, or object...'not budging an inch'; the problems resulting from irreconcilable differences; contrasting different perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic; identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles; incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box;

I believe that Eris' co-discoverer,Michael Brown gave the clue to Eris' meaning. Heck...even said that the name fits so much with Eris that it almost made him believe in Astrology! hahahahaha

if you take a look at Uranus discovery chart, there is a Mercury square Eris. There is also Venus sextile/trine the heliocentric Eris Nodes.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 16, 2009 11:09 PM         

I was always on the debate team and I have been told that I love to argue, that I should be a lawyer, etc. I do like a good, healthy debate but I get over things very quickly. Good thing I have Moon in Libra (in the 9th) to help balance that out...

posted August 17, 2009 12:32 AM         

but the positives of Eris can also be tolerance/accepting of diversity/divergence,belief in equality, considering other's viewpoints, compromising, agreeing to disagree, not thinking that you're always right and others are wrong,but also considering that others have truth too and not just you, and that you also be wrong about things, realizing that you don't know everything and others have knowledge too

even some of the following keywords that Zane Stein came up with can be positive:

fighting for one's rights;
contrasting different perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic; identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles; incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box; the ethics connected with one's motives and methods, and the coming to light of less than spotless methods; the roots of one's motivations

I like this one especially:
fighting for one's rights

that fits with standing up for one's self, striving
for equal rights, and advocacy

Like my strong Eris energy is in synchronicity with my tolerance/acceptance of diversity,belief in equality connected to my multiracial family heritage and my neurodivergence/special education experience. Of course,I am into neurodiversity advocacy and my wanting to form a nonprofit neurodiversity organization. It also fits with my belief in gender equality and my belief in equal rights for females. I am a member of National Organization for Women which shares a birthday with me,and so it has Sun oppose/conjunct Heliocentric Nodes in Taurus/Scorpio. My sex hormonal diversity and not fitting male stereotypes which leads some people to think that I am gay gives me tolerancea/acceptance of diversity when it comes to sexuality and a believer in gay rights. Of course,I believe in diversity when it comes to religious,spiritual beliefs because of my divergent religious,spiritual beliefs. That's why I am a member of an interfaith unity church.

I also believe it also fits with my interest,ability as an astrologer with a mind that is divergent,multidimensional that it enables me to think outside the box,see different perspectives/different points of view, and doesn't go with the astrological status quo. Acceptance/tolerance of diversity in Astrology.

all those things fit with my retrograde Eris Aries in 8th and my heliocentric Eris Nodes in Taurus/Scorpio in 2nd and 8th house....especially with the aspects that I have involving them.

Therefore, you don't need Moon in Libra in 9th to balance out the Eris in 3rd

every heavenly body has both positive and negative potentials

so Eris placements aren't necessarily negative

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 17, 2009 01:01 AM         

Eris - Discord and the Dialectic Process
It appears that the philosopher Hegel saw the evolutionary stage that is beyond Pluto.

Hegel saw the dialectic between thesis and antithesis as a constructive process that leads to a higher synthesis.

There is a discussion of Hegel's ideas excerpted at:

www2.pfeiffer.edu/~lridener/courses/HEGEL.HTML

Quotes from this page:

"Dialectic is defined by Hegel as the power (or energy or force) of negativity."

"Dialectic is thus the transition of things, and of knowledge, from potentiality or abstraction to actuality and content, but in such a way that the arising of a fuller determination points beyond itself to a further determination. Every determination is both a result and a new beginning, concrete and abstract, for it occurs within a process of the becoming of a thing (or of knowledge), and hence is concrete relative to the origin of the process but abstract relative to the telos of the whole process. A thing becomes more and more fully developed through this successive dialectic of self-reconstruction."

So discord is part of a constant on-going dialectic process of maturation, of leaving behind one-sided viewpoints and partial truths. It shakes up the status quo and says that a more complete perspective is necessary.

Regards,

John Halloran

The dialectic is a branch of logic in the art of reasoning and\or disputing. Through the use of it Socrates would lead his adversary to make clear his position on the subject, then, often with the introduction of an absolutely contrary theory, the discussion would end with an admission, on the other side, of an inaccuracy. It was employed to set one theory in opposition with another, and thus to develop a subject in a comprehensive manner. First an idea (a Thesis) was thrown up against another theory (an Antithesis); from this, it was thought, one would advance to a third stage, and the truth would emerge. Often, - though not necessarily - there would come about a combination of both the ideas (a synthesis). From this process, it is thought, one would arrive at the truth of a proposition; this is not to be confused with a negotiation process whereby, usually, a compromise is wrought out.

Henry Alphern wrote (in An Outline History of Philosophy):

"We must analyze everything into what it now is, then analysis will show that it contains its opposite, which in turn will have to be harmonized into something that includes them both. But the resultant synthesis will itself be subject again to a negative element, this then, will be resolved into a still more comprehensive synthesis, which will be subjected once more to the principle of contradiction. The final solution, the ultimate harmony, the last synthesis, the step when it will no longer be necessary to go higher, will constitute the Absolute. The Universe as a whole harmonizes all contradictions, it is the perfect whole, it is the synthesis which we are seeking as our final solution. It, therefore, constitutes the true, the rational, the goal of the dialectic method. The conclusion is that only the whole of reality is rational, because that furnishes a complete view of all things; it is the Absolute, the World, Reason, God."

Hesiod wrote that there were two different Eris goddesses. One of them, the daugher of Nyx (Night) stirred up healthy competiton. Think about the last good, stirring debate you watched. A discussion involving opposing viewpoints, first one side, then the other, at times perhaps getting quite heated. Didn't you come away mentally stimulated, perhaps with your own thoughts galvanized?

Competition comes from the Latin word competere, which means: to strive together, to coincide. The very basis of healthy competition is not to create enmity, but to strive together to come up with something better than existed previously. In a healthy competition, everyone benefits, no matter whoo wins.

President William McKinley was an indefatigable campaigner. He helped rebuild the Republican Party in 1896 by rejecting divisive ethnic issues and promoting pluralism--whereby every group in the nation would prosper and none would be singled out for attack. He once wrote:

"Without competition we would be clinging to the clumsy antiquated processes of farming and manufacture and the methods of business of long ago, and the twentieth would be no further advanced than the eighteenth century."

He was born on January 29, 1843, with Mercury approximately 27 Aquarius 18, closely conjunct Eris at 27 Aquarius 53.

Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey had a mind that quickly grasped complicated issues. He was instrumental in merging two opposing political parties (the Democratic and the Farmer-Labor party), and with their combined backing he was elected Mayor of Minneapolis. He gained a national reputation by his strong stand for civil rights. In fact, in one of the most renowned speeches in American political history, Humphrey told the 1948 Democratic National Convention: "To those who say, my friends, to those who say, that we are rushing this issue of civil rights, I say to them we are 172 years too late! To those who say, this civil rights program is an infringement on states' rights, I say this: the time has arrived in America for the Democratic Party to get out of the shadow of states' rights and walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights!" Humphrey and his allies succeeded; the pro-civil-rights plank was narrowly adopted. But not without causing strife! As a result of the Convention's vote, the Mississippi and one half of the Alabama delegation walked out of the hall. Many Southern Democrats were so enraged that they formed the "Dixiecrat" party and nominated their own presidential candidate.

He once wrote:

"Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate."

Humphrey was born May 27, 1911. This gave him a Mars (25 Pisces 19) conjunct Eris (26 Pisces 39), both square Pluto (26 Gemini 53.)
http://www.zanestein.com/Trans-pluto.htm#UB313

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 17, 2009 01:12 AM         

conj POF
conj Ceres
trine Jupiter
trine Neptune (forms grand trine from the 11th with Jupiter in the 7th)
opp Pluto (that one is questionable actually!)

posted August 17, 2009 03:53 AM         

Mercury in Aries in 3rd (28Aries)
Eris in Aries on 3rd house cusp (15.57aries and 16.8 Aries)
Mercury opposing Pluto in 9th (0Scorpio)
Eris opposing Moon in 9th (18 Libra)

I will debate issues that create an emotional response in me/challenge my beliefs and philosophies. I also like things to be Fair and if someone can have their opinion, then so can I (if I care enough about the subject that is).

It looks like house placement has a lot to do with this too...

ETA: I'm learning to hold my tongue with a lot of things tho as I am learning that it's not worth it most of the time hehehe but it is hard!

posted August 17, 2009 04:52 AM         

quote:

---

I know couple of people with Sun conjunct Mercury who argue a lot.

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posted August 17, 2009 05:20 AM         

conjunct mc (4)
square chiron (4)

in aries, in the 9th house.

i love debates.

posted August 17, 2009 07:14 AM         

quote:

---

Doesn't everyone have sun/mercury conjunct?

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posted August 17, 2009 08:29 AM         

Virgo Ascendant; rx Cancer Mercury in the 11th

Moon Opposition Mercury 2°02
Mercury Sextile Mars 1°08
Mercury Sextile Saturn 3°40
Mercury Trine Uranus 3°11

posted August 17, 2009 11:56 AM         

nope

in my chart:
Sun is in 5'20 Scorpio
Mercury is in 18'21 Scorpio
Neptune is in 1'48 Sagittarius

as you see, My Sun and Mercury are separated by over 13 degrees. no way near being conjunct

My Mercury is conjunct the Sun/Neptune midpoint with 14 minutes of arc, and so my Mercury does have a connection with the Sun but it has a connection with Neptune too......the merging of Mercurial energy with the integration of the Solar energy and Neptunian energy

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 17, 2009 01:08 PM         

also: aries in 3rd (or virgo or gemini i would think) who loves a battle with those around it! or just plain likes to dissect every idea and take it to the limit...

mercury conjunct sun:

"Your self-image and identity will be closely connected to your mental expression and activity, and it is likely that you will be an effective and articulate communicator, enjoying impressing others by your intelligence and verbal acuity. Yet there may be 'blind spots' in your relationships, or in your ability for self-reflection, and becoming aware of such tendencies may prove to be beneficial.

posted August 17, 2009 02:55 PM         

I am one, my brother is another. We are both Geminis, and always enjoyed the intellectual type of arguments, politics and the like. My Mars is in the 3rd in Aqua (Square Taurus Merc). His is in the 7th in Sag (opposite Gem Merc).

But we never squabbled or fought in the sibling rivalry sense. He always looked out for his little sis.

posted August 17, 2009 04:50 PM         

Keep in mind also: One person's argument is another's debate
I personally love debate/arguing, for fun...and to find common ground.
In my family (a tribe of Aquarians) there's always argument/debate about politics/religion and sometimes to the point of yelling, followed by laughter. I like it.