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Author Topic:   Is my Venus Combust?
Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 08:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Hey there. Is my Venus combust? I don't have a scientific calculator where I am, to calculate the minutes and seconds properly. (I could do it manually, huh? )Besides that, how exact do the angles have to be (10, 12, 14, etc.) in order for a planet to be considered combust? I ask because my Venus is a little over 6 and a half degrees in Virgo.

Also, what are the implications of Venus in fall being combust?

Here's a diagram of its position below Sun 20°7'47" and Venus 6°37'29":

Wiki says:

quote:
Combustion" occurs when the unassisted view of a planet from the earth is obscured by the light of the sun.

The Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn become combust, during their direct motion, when their longitudinal arc is 12, 17, 14, 11, 10 & 16 degrees respectively from the Sun on either side.



quote:

Combustion is a state of being and is another AVASTHA like retrogression. In
combustion the planet loses its own Rays whereas a planet in retrogression is
full of
Rays (Venus being the exception). Thus the combustion of a planet indicates its
lack of influence on the chart by way of its natural nature and the planet
shall be obliged to work for the sun alone and its significations. It shows a
person who is under the dominating influence of a superior in the matters
related to the signification of the planet. For example if Venus is combust,
the artistic side can be lacking...

I got this from this here

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Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 08:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
This is how far apart they are:

13°30"22"

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Deliverance
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posted August 17, 2009 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deliverance     Edit/Delete Message
I thought that a planet has to be within 10-8 degs of the Sun to be combust?

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Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 08:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
I have no idea Deliverance. I just know what I read on that Wiki link.

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MsCandeh
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posted August 17, 2009 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
Unmoved,

Thanks for posting this. I had no idea about combust planets!

My Venus is 9 deg 14 mins behind the sun (going direct) ... but the link you posted stated that "As per some openions, if a planet is within 5 to 7 degrees of sun it is said to
be in orbs of real combustion .. where effects are distinct."
So hopefully this means that it's not as noticeable! Definitely worth looking into

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MsCandeh
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posted August 17, 2009 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
.

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Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
MsCandeh...

I'm glad to have have helped, ignorant as I might be about this also.

On astrologyweekly.com they say

quote:
Combustion - Definition from Christian Astrology (1847, W.Lilly)

A Planet is said to be Combust of the Sun, when in the same Sign where the Sun is in, he is not distant from the Sun eight degrees and thirty minutes, either before or after the Sun; as Jupiter in the tenth degree of Aries, and Sun in the eighteenth of Aries; here Jupiter is Combust.
Also:

You must observe a Planet is more afflicted when the Sun hastens to conjunction of him, then when the Sun receds from him.
Interpretation:

The significator of the Querent Combust, shews him or her in great fear, and over powered by some great person.


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Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
we posted at the same time.

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MsCandeh
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posted August 17, 2009 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
hehehe I deleted mine tho because what I had linked to referred to horary astrology!

But I will repost the link now because I then read somewhere else that states 8 deg 30 mins before or after the Sun

oops :P

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/special-horary/combust.php

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MsCandeh
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posted August 17, 2009 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
So I guess this means we're safe huh? XD

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Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Here's another one:
Combust

It says.... well, just have a read.

and... Yes, Ms Candeh.

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Node
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posted August 17, 2009 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message
Short answer- No

You might want to check out Cazimi as well, 17 min of arc. (heart of the Sun)

I use three degrees for combust, and find it a fascinating subject

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Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Node. Short answers are the best. Excellent news too.

I'll look at Cazimi.

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Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
Aaaahhhh

quote:
Cazimi (also spelled Casimi, and sometimes called Zaminium) is a technical Arabic word meaning "heart of the Sun" or "in the heart of the Sun." It is an astrological term meaning a planet that is in exact conjunction with or very near the precise center of the solar disc. A planet that forms a conjunction with the Sun within 17' (arc minutes) of partile (exactitude) is said to be Cazimi, literally engulfed and fortified by Sol and, as it also may be interpreted, "in the heart of the Sun." According to a psychological approach to astrology the Sun, representing the Ego, engulfs the energies of the planet in Cazimi and is said to imbue it with the intensely positive and life-giving energy and power of the Sun...

Cazimi

Quite interesting indeed!! I'll add some more links if I find more and edit them onto this post.

Cazimi-astroweekly

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MsCandeh
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posted August 17, 2009 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
I just found this:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=121906
"A planet is combust when it is in conjunction with the Sun and therefore hidden from sight by the light of the Sun. Traditionally this is a serious debility and implies that the planet is weakened or restricted in power. [...]

William Lilly stated that the combust planet should be in the same sign as the Sun and within 8° 30' - beyond this distance, but within 17 ° of the Sun, the planet is said to be under the Sun's beams. This condition is debilitating, but not as severe as combustion."

And then noticed the posts about Camizi which sounds the same

So we have Camizi Venuses then? I'll have a look at the links now! Thanks for posting this info Node and Unmoved

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Unmoved
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posted August 17, 2009 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
MsCandeh...

No, we are not, fortunately, unless it is within 0° to 8° 30' from the Sun, which mine isn't. If it is 0° 17' conjunction, then it becomes Cazimi.

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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posted August 17, 2009 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
The only time I use combust or cazimi is when I'm doing Horary astrology and I've been studying it in depth over the last few months. Also, I only use it with Mercury not with Venus. In "regular" western astrology I don't use it at all. If anything, I've considered it to be a very strong placement for one of the personal planets to be very close to the Sun. My experience is that the Sun increases the power of the planet that is next to it. Kind of like the best friends of the most popular kid in school or greatness by association. When you apprentice with the best (The Sun or Pluto) you become the best, that kind of thing.

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Seeing Stars 7.21
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posted August 17, 2009 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Seeing Stars 7.21     Edit/Delete Message
I have also heard a planet can only be combust if it is conjunct the sun. in a sense. the planet loses part of its Identity because the sun kind of smothers it.

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Lara
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posted August 17, 2009 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
My mercury is combust my sun, i think... i do feel that mercury plays a stronger part in my chart than anything else... for better or worse!

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scrappydog
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posted August 17, 2009 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scrappydog     Edit/Delete Message
I have a combust pluto, 1 deg. This is the aspect I feel Most in my whole chart. I practically live and breath pluto. So the combustion did nothing to weaken this planet, quite the opposite. I know 4 people closely with mercury combust, 2 are extremely intelligent and succesful and very mercurial, the combustian made this planet very strong in their natures also. The other 2 are extremely dumb and weak minded, even delusional. What gives?? It seems the Whole chart needs to be taken into account and not just the combust aspect!

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Unmoved
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posted August 18, 2009 09:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
GV~
quote:
The only time I use combust or cazimi is when I'm doing Horary astrology...

I suppose this is where it's relevant. Interesting.

SS7.21~

quote:
the planet loses part of its Identity because the sun kind of smothers it.

Actually, your wording is better, as in "losing identity" not in losing power. Which means that it would act like a planet with a lot of Sun qualities. Interesting also.

Lara~

quote:
i do feel that mercury plays a stronger part in my chart than anything else... for better or worse!

Hmmm... so it is almost intensified for you?


srappydog~

quote:
...2 are extremely intelligent and succesful and very mercurial, the combustian made this planet very strong in their natures also. The other 2 are extremely dumb...

Interesting!

Yes, time and time again we are reminded to always consider the entire chart.

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MsCandeh
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posted August 18, 2009 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
Unmoved,

The previous quote I posted from another thread (from somewhere else on the interwebs) stated 17 degrees - not minutes, so that's why I got confused XP

But they say within 17 degrees of the sun it can be debilitating but not anywhere like it can be with the combust.

Here's an excerpt from the link you posted previously regarding the combust definition on Astrology Weekly

quote:
The probabilities are that the effect of the combust condition is to combine the planet's influence more closely with that of the Sun, until it is no longer a physical emotion capable of independent control, but an integral part of that consciousness of Destiny that the Sun imparts. Thus Mercury combust imparts to the mind a capacity for concentration upon what it deems its own destiny, but robs it of its receptivity to distracting or diverting influences. Hence it is no bar to the achievement of its own objectives insofar as the ability to achieve them is within its own powers, but it robs the native of the cooperation of those whom he alienates by his particular species of obtuse deafness to any or all argument that runs counter to his own concepts.

and

quote:
The distinction is an important one, in that a person with an entirely unaspected Mercury is one who usually develops a complex by way of an escape mechanism, while one whose Mercury is within 5° to 10° of the Sun is seldom afflicted with any manner of mental derangement.

Wilson says "there seems manifest a difference in genius and propensities of natives, according to the distance of their Mercury from the Sun; and that those whose Mercury is combust have little wit or solid judgment, though they will persevere in business and frequently with good success."


Thought I'd add these in here because a lot of ppl seem to have mercury combust (which makes sense more ppl would have this!)

and this:

quote:
It should not be confused with the phrase "under the Sun's beams" which applies to, let us say, the degree of non-combustion, and is perhaps embodied in the doctrine that a planet within the Sun's aura - which extends to 17° on either side - is within orbs of a conjunction therewith. In other words, while the orbs of the planets, with regard to aspects, are variously from 3° to 10° according to the nature of the aspect, the solar orb, by conjunction or opposition, can be as much as 17°

So I guess that makes mores sense why it can still be slightly debilitating to have it within 17 degrees outside of 8 deg 30'.


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MsCandeh
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posted August 18, 2009 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
phhooey .. I just replied and it didn't submit it though it said it did!

Unmoved,

I got confused because the link I posted earlier was talking about 17 degrees not minutes! XP

They say that the planet can still be debilitated (but not to the extent that the combustion would suggest) within 17 deg of the Sun.

I got these quotes from the link you posted earlier re: combust definition from Astrology Weekly.

quote:
It should not be confused with the phrase "under the Sun's beams" which applies to, let us say, the degree of non-combustion, and is perhaps embodied in the doctrine that a planet within the Sun's aura - which extends to 17° on either side - is within orbs of a conjunction therewith. In other words, while the orbs of the planets, with regard to aspects, are variously from 3° to 10° according to the nature of the aspect, the solar orb, by conjunction or opposition, can be as much as 17°

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MsCandeh
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posted August 18, 2009 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
And because there seems to be a lot of mercury combust occurances (which makes sense!):

quote:
The probabilities are that the effect of the combust condition is to combine the planet's influence more closely with that of the Sun, until it is no longer a physical emotion capable of independent control, but an integral part of that consciousness of Destiny that the Sun imparts. Thus Mercury combust imparts to the mind a capacity for concentration upon what it deems its own destiny, but robs it of its receptivity to distracting or diverting influences. Hence it is no bar to the achievement of its own objectives insofar as the ability to achieve them is within its own powers, but it robs the native of the cooperation of those whom he alienates by his particular species of obtuse deafness to any or all argument that runs counter to his own concepts. Edison and Kant both illustrate this interpretation.


and


quote:
The distinction is an important one, in that a person with an entirely unaspected Mercury is one who usually develops a complex by way of an escape mechanism, while one whose Mercury is within 5° to 10° of the Sun is seldom afflicted with any manner of mental derangement.

Wilson says "there seems manifest a difference in genius and propensities of natives, according to the distance of their Mercury from the Sun; and that those whose Mercury is combust have little wit or solid judgment, though they will persevere in business and frequently with good success." Also that a good aspect to the Moon, if angular and increasing in light, will in great measure remedy this defect, making one "judicious and penetrating."


scrappydog - do the two people who are very mercurial and intelligent have good moon aspects to their mercuries? And do the other two not have good moon aspects?

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MsCandeh
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posted August 18, 2009 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message
ack what's going on with the postings tonight? lol

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