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Author Topic:   And so it all boils down to Mercury.. (Agree - Disagree - Discuss)
vapor-lash
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 04:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
MERCURY!!! The planet of communication, mental processes, trade, messages in a bottle and compromise!

Named after the Roman God Mercury (Greek Equivalent Hermes).. As the story goes, when Hades kidnapped Persephone, Hermes was sent to the Underworld to strike a deal with the much dreaded god of death. Now Hades, and his Roman equivalent Pluto, was not the most lovable god (as most of us here know)..

Nor the most open to compromise.. Despite this, Hermes' wits got through to Hades' cold & frosty heart, a deal was struck, and Persephone returned to Mt. Olympus for most of that year & every year to follow..

Hermes "won". Hermes always wins..

And this ^ - knowflakes - is the point of my thread. Since astrology seems to work through name-vibration or name-associations.. the "powers" of Hermes.. those things that Hermes (and Mercury) stand for in Greek-Roman mythology are transferred to the effect - Mercury - the planet, has upon us.

Thus, I have a theory of late, that in synastry Mercury aspects tend to trump over all other aspects. Every synastry (much like every birth chart) will have some positive/easy aspects & placements and some traditionally "negative" or challenging ones. According to this theory.. If one of the following aspects is present in the synastry:

Mercury conjunct Mercury (orb: 4)
Mercury trine Mercury (orb: 3)
Mercury sextile Mercury (orb: 1)

The two people (be they lovers, friends, members of the same family, acquaintances, co-workers or anything else) will ultimately be able to resolve their differences. These people could have horrible aspects elsewhere - like the infamous: venus-pluto square & opposition, mars-pluto square & opposition, moon-uranus squares etc.. and STILL be able to compromise and come to some kind of *agreement*.

Perhaps the relationship won't always continue, if the synastry is that challenging and the individuals involved are not willing to keep things going. But Mercury will give them the tools to sort things out.. or alternatively, end them amicably.

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vapor-lash
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 04:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
Conversely, if two people have no major Mercury aspects at all - it would be much more difficult for them to work through the challenges and discuss things openly. This kind of relationship CAN work - if:

a) There are no seriously frightening - "challenging" aspects.. in the synastry (ie Venus square Pluto double whammy)

or..

b) Their free will is strong enough to overcome all obstacles including the lack of communication *plus* all other challenges.

Otherwise we often see a replay of this:

A third option is to HAVE a Mercury2Mercury aspect.. that is considered negative.. such as the square and the opposition. I am divided as to whether it is better to have something, than nothing at all. My gut feeling says yes - but I haven't yet looked into it.

My question is: Have you noticed a pattern in your past relationships where.. Mercury clearly helped the situation?

One example I have involves Mars/Pluto aspects. Without Mercury (in a past relationship) it was hell.. With Mercury (current) it's easier to get the best out of this aspect.. and it feels supportive, rather than aggressive/competitive.

So do you think ultimately Mercury plays a decisive role in synastry? Discuss! If you like..

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popcorn
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 04:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for popcorn     Edit/Delete Message
Of cours mercury are one of the most important in a relationship.
If you not can't talk to each other it doesn't matter how good the relationship work in all the other situations.. Noone relationsship work out good without good communication and merk in a chart..

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blue moon
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 04:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
Vapor-Lash

I only flicked through your post as I have to go and work now. However, this stood out for me like a beacon:-

quote:

According to this theory.. If one of the following aspects is present in the synastry:

Mercury conjunct Mercury (orb: 4)
Mercury trine Mercury (orb: 3)
Mercury sextile Mercury (orb: 1)

The two people (be they lovers, friends, members of the same family, acquaintances, co-workers or anything else) will ultimately be able to resolve their differences.


You go on to say even if the synastry is horrible, etc.

I have been with my husband for 17 years. Our synastry chart contains aspects such as Sun Square Pluto, Mars CNJ Saturn, Mars OPP Mars, etc, oh, and a Grand Cross. We also have Mercury TRI Mercury to 1 degree orb. I have always maintained that our ability to talk things over when things have cooled down has kept us going over the years.

I ask his advice and opinion more than I would ever admit. He is older than me. He gives me good advice. His Mercury sign? Guess? O.K. It's Cap. LOL. I have Mercury CNJ Saturn in the 7th. In Taurus. I like his business brain and practical good sense.

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vapor-lash
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 05:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
Wow BlueMoon - That's really fantastic. Congratulations on your long and talkative marriage!

I'm glad *this* spoke to you, because that means it isn't just my own imagination or take on things.

I had some horrible experiences with the first person I shared a Mars/Pluto aspect with. However I felt we could have gotten passed this, if only there was some way to discuss the situation and work things out. But this was a dead end street. We simply couldn't communicate. Either he'd walk out the door in the middle of a conversation, or I would get frustrated and stop listening - It was impossible.

Contrasting this with my current Mars/Pluto relationship.. we can talk! Can we ever talk LOL Our Mercuries are closely trine in Pisces (mine) and Cancer (his). If a problem comes up, we always talk or email or call - There is always ongoing communication. Neither of us does the "silent treatment".. I find this extremely important in overcoming slight annoyances (or more serious problems) and moving forward.

quote:
Our synastry chart contains aspects such as Sun Square Pluto, Mars CNJ Saturn, Mars OPP Mars, etc, oh, and a Grand Cross. We also have Mercury TRI Mercury to 1 degree orb. I have always maintained that our ability to talk things over when things have cooled down has kept us going over the years.

That's very interesting. Often when I read interpretations of "challenging" aspects I find several assumptions regarding the behavior of the two people as a result of the tension the aspect generates. I think these assumptions or predictions - completely break down.. when you have the Mercury2Mercury there.

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vapor-lash
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 05:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
Popocorn,

quote:
If you not can't talk to each other it doesn't matter how good the relationship work in all the other situations.. Noone relationsship work out good without good communication and merk in a chart..

I agree! But I've noticed that in love-relationships astrologers tend to SKIP over the Mercury step and onto Sun/Moon/Asc/Venus/Mars..

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PeaceAngel
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posted January 05, 2010 07:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
Merc synastry with Mr Angel involves his Moon & Merc conjunct my Moon, and his Saturn conjunct my Mercury. He likes to say "no" to my ideas a lot. This, understandably, annoys me a great deal (that Merc/Moon-Moon conjunction squares my Mars). By nature I'm not a fighter. With Sun, Merc, AC & Venus all Aries and Saturn & Mars in Taurus, I figure that patience is one of my great life lessons. So I wait - until he's in a good mood - because as a Capi Sun with Cancer AC, Aqua Moon and Scorpy Mars in 4th (conjunct his IC) he's quite moody. Moody people swing like a pendulum - so my patience waits for his happy mood and we try the same suggestion again - my Jupiter happens to conjunct his Mars (my Jupiter in my 7th house). This time, with better results (for me).

I find Merc to be a very big influence in our relationship. I've just learnt to work my way around the potential strife and limitations of those Moon, Saturn and Mars aspects.

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blue moon
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 07:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
Mr bm's Saturn is conjunct my Mars. He likes to say NO a lot too - but Mars is a fighter. Get on with it, Grandad!

BUT

(sensible bit here)

Saturn is the stone to Mars' sword. He sharpens the blade, makes sure it gets directed in the right place. E.g, "try not to shout at your boss and call him a **** " Got to give the man his due, this is wise advice. I have a Mars apexed T-Square. I have come to the conclusion that in the wider picture Saturn sat here is a help.

Maybe Saturn on Mercury does a similar thing. On a bad day he might be an idea-squasher, on a good one, he is sharpening the pencil or whatever. No disrespect, maybe some of your ideas are sh!t and need squashing. Just sayin'.

p.s I agree with Popcorn 100%

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PeaceAngel
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posted January 05, 2010 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
bm

Mr Angel's Mars opposes my Saturn. I just annoy the crap out of him - Merc and all.

My ideas are **** ? Could be. But any synastry aside, here's one sure point - he's a man - so ply him with food, alcohol if necessary, give him a good **** and you'll get a yes to anything you want.

Oh - did I say that!!!

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Node
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message
You know how many interp sites use the keyword trickster for Mercury? That has never sat well for me. When you look the word up->

*prankster: someone who plays practical jokes on others
*deceiver: someone who leads you to believe something that is not true
*a mischievous supernatural being found in the folklore of many primitive people; sometimes distinguished by prodigious biological drives and exaggerated bodily parts

In mythology, and in the study of folklore and religion, a trickster is a god, goddess, spirit, man, woman, or anthropomorphic animal who plays tricks or otherwise disobeys normal rules and conventional behavior. ...

Maybe it is just me, but I would more loosely apply that to Uranus...

But that is one keyword, and I digress.

In a relationship of any type the deal maker, and the deal breaker is

so, yeah it all boils down to Merc

Moon aspects like those listed above I feel denote forgiveness, and empathy. Particularly the conjunction. If good communication is not present; even that can be broken.

If a natal has Mercury challenged, poorly placed, or the word ~afflicted~ that gets thrown around...Neptune is top of my list for that one, then trickster might apply.

Mercury is highlighted in my chart,

chart ruler:
Sits on SN
Exactly conjunct Ceres
Tight sextile to Moon / Vesta
Trine Jupiter in Jupes natural house.

Mercury is the tie that binds for me.

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blue moon
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
My best relationships have all involved strong Sun/Mercury or Mercury/Mercury contacts. Sextile, Trine, and Conjunction. I thought as Sun Gemini this would be part of the explanation, but like pointed out here, this a relationship essential.

In my mental list of best relationships I am including family, and a non-verbal person - as non-verbal communication is communication!

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DD
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posted January 05, 2010 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
I DEFINITELY think Mercury is important. In my synastries anyway, but then Mercury rules my DESC, and usually it also rules the ASC, DESC or IC of the men I feel attracted, too.

Anyway, my Mum and Dad, have pretty mixed Mercury-aspects, well, some would say they are downright bad.


His Mercury square her Neptune
his Mercury inconjunct her Pluto
her Mercury square his Venus
her Mercury square his Jupiter
her Mercury inconjunct his Midheaven

but also,
His Mercury trine her Venus exact

(Mercury rules my Dad`s ASC and MC and my Mum`s IC - I sometimes think MErcurians have psychic detectors to find each other)


They are constantly talking with each other, arguing, teasing, really, ALL THE TIME, sometimes discussing loudly and sometimes really misunderstanding each other (which are no real misunderstandings, as they know how the other one meant it, they just pretend to not understand so they have a reason to be pouting for 5 minutes or so; It is a form of game to them).


So I think that it may be worse to have NO Mercurial aspects at all than having some challenging ones. At least these people talk to each other.

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Node
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message
VL
quote:
A third option is to HAVE a Mercury2Mercury aspect.. that is considered negative.. such as the square and the opposition. I am divided as to whether it is better to have something, than nothing at all. My gut feeling says yes - but I haven't yet looked into it.

I would think this might be beneficial in an academic scenario [squares / opp ]...or a mentor situation, a person who challenges, but ultimately leads you to a better understanding of beliefs? Clears your thought processes? Dunno

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blue moon
Knowflake

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posted January 05, 2010 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
Could be one that challenges but not necessarily in a bad way, in a learning way -> I have Sun Gemini Square Mercury Pisces with an old friend. Together, we never shut up. We grew up together so there is some of that in the mix of that expression, talking over difficult things and telling each other home truths only a good friend can tell you.

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DD
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posted January 05, 2010 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
BM,

I know what you mean about hometruths, I have that with a friend of mine. We have known each other for 20 years now, through high and low, thick and thin, and even though in some respects we are VERY different, we have always been able to somehow "get" each other.
Interestingly my Mercury doesn`t aspect her chart at all.
But her Mercury is strongly aspected, and she is actually the one who really keeps the communication flowing between us and has the most need for talking.

Her Mercury conjuncts my Pluto and Midheaven
Her Mercury sextiles my Mars, NN, Neptune and ASC
Her Mercury squares my Venus.

The (ancient) ruler of my 3rd house (mercury house) sextiles the ruler of her 3rd house, too.

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comica23
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posted January 05, 2010 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message
For me, Mercury compatibility is very important (maybe coz it's my AC ruler?). It doesn't matter if there's no aspect between them, it's good as long as our Mercuries are in compatible signs.

PeaceAngel, me and my bf also have Saturn conjunct Mercury and Saturn oppose Mars. But it's his Mercury and my Mars. How do you feel about these aspects??

I basically love his Mercury (sits on my IC and is compatible with mine), but sometimes he says things that he shouldn't lol. On the other hand, my Mars feels a bit annoyed sometimes, but this aspect isn't really problematic at all (even if his Saturn sits on my Pluto and squares my Jupiter too). Just a bit of patience/tolerance from both sides, and me switching from my Mars mode to my Pluto mode and that's it (unless his Saturn critics are too much lol).

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Lara
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posted January 05, 2010 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
I agree!!! although my mother and her husband have been married for over 30 years and have no mercury aspects and in incompatible signs LOL

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Belage
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posted January 05, 2010 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message
Brilliant observation Vapor-lash!! That's a wonderful thread!!!

I went through an intense mercury square mercury relationship, and we argued about everything. I mean EVERYTHING. We'd even argue about the freaking weather, that's how crazy the miscommunication was. Most of the time, I would decide to keep my mouth shut, and even that was misunderstood. It was very emotionally draining.

And by the way, we reciprocal mercury trine sun aspects, but even that didn't seem to trump the mercury square mercury aspect. We just couldn't understand each other.

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amowls*
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posted January 05, 2010 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls*     Edit/Delete Message
I disagree Vapor.

My ex and I had Mercury conjunct Mercury (mine is 24 Aqua, his is 29 Aqua). Aquarius is a truly stubborn sign. Our Mercuries aren't very open to compromise. His Venus squared my Pluto and his Mars opposed my Pluto, and we had Sun square Mars DW. Ultimately our differences can not be worked out.

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DD
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posted January 05, 2010 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, you have had a T-square with Venus, Mars and Pluto?
That must have been pretty intense, in the good as well as the bad sense.

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Nine
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posted January 05, 2010 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message
True, persons with connections to my mercury attracts me magnetically.

However, those relationships are usually one sided with very little communication.

Eg.1 - pMercury conj. nMercury @ 6 Leo

Eg.2 - pMercury conj. nMercury @ 0 Cancer

In the first example, I remember writing on an anonymous community message board, "talk to me."

I have nMercury at 0 Cancer.

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katatonic
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posted January 05, 2010 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
i think you are onto something with ANY kind of aspect being better than none.

but lara's parents are notable in that they point to the fact that not everybody needs to be able to "discuss" with their SO on a mental level.

so my suggestion would be that SOME people need mental compatability where others do NOT. moon and sun contacts can override difficult mercury pictures. but in all i think it comes back to basics...the natal pattern of your chart and how it is influenced by the "other's"..

and in fact i think in many cases the "hard" aspects will create just as much communication and growth if not more. too much agreement can wreck a relationship as well as too little.

i'm thinking of a certain virgo whose merc is conj mine and we nitpicked each other to death. this is someone whose sun conj my venus and other VERY pretty connections. we were too alike in our willingness to critique each other.

and my sister, whose merc widely trines mine, is impossible to talk to unless her taurus moon(closer trine to my merc!) is pulling for comfort.

so no, it's not all down to mercury, not for me anyway. but then my merc opposes my moon so that is MY natural inclination...

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Belage
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posted January 05, 2010 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message
Amowls, in the example you gave, the conjunction has a 5 degree orb. If the other aspects were much tighter, they might have trumpted that wide conjunction.

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Lara
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posted January 06, 2010 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
my AC ruler is mercury and my SO's sun's ruler is mercury... we talk about everything, have the most intensely deep and interesting conversations and yet our mercury's don't make any aspect at all lol

How can that be?

His mercury does conjunct (1) my AC though

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letram
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posted January 06, 2010 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for letram     Edit/Delete Message
but mercury doesnt decide if one person is a a* hole or not.

actually, save a long reply.

im basically just going to say, communication is communication, its not like no mercury-mercury aspect = speaking different languages.

what im trying to say is, two people can understand each other without mercury aspects.

mercury is communication, but planets in synastry communicate, if its square, they arent going to understand eachother or work eachother well.

i basically just say that two people with their brains switched on can solve a problem.

im sure a survey showing two people working well together when it comes to solving problems (relationships or not) will NOT alwyas have a mercury-mercury aspect.

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