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Author Topic:   Nodal returns - mean or true?
Stellia
Knowflake

Posts: 76
From: Yorks, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted February 26, 2017 06:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stellia        Reply w/Quote
I have my second nodal return coming up this summer and was wondering... How significant is this?

And which should you give more credence to - the mean node return or the true one?

The true node will return on June 6th - I have north node in late Leo, in the 7th house. On this day, transiting sun and Ceres will be conjunct my natal Venus, and transiting Venus will be conjunct my sun.

The mean node returns on July 13th, with a whole load of different transits.

So here's my question. Which matters the most? Do they both matter? Is it the period in between that matters?

Or do I take a note of how things play out on each of the dates and use it as research? 😬

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Lerena
Knowflake

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Registered: May 2015

posted February 26, 2017 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena        Reply w/Quote
I don't know which one you should use, to be honest, because the only event I can think of that happened during my Nodal Return seems to be shortly before my True Node Return. It's hard to tell when not much happened when the transit became exact. At the very least, I didn't seem to talk about it and I've checked all my journals and stuff.

Take note of how things play out. Personally, I think the day with the most transits has more potential to indicate something happening.

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soren
Knowflake

Posts: 3409
From: infinite backwards point
Registered: Sep 2012

posted February 26, 2017 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren        Reply w/Quote
the mean node was made before they had any honing calculators.

they had no technology for knowing constantly where the moon is. so they just said it crosses the ecliptic here, and 5 years later it crosses it over here, so for each and every day we will take the average motion it moved.

the true node is after they developed calculators. it calculates it very accurately, down to 0.01 degrees pretty much.

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soren
Knowflake

Posts: 3409
From: infinite backwards point
Registered: Sep 2012

posted February 26, 2017 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren        Reply w/Quote
i dont understand why they still use the mean node.

lots of older astrologers used the mean node, so they might think its traditional to them. even though it's less accurate and really no use in using it.

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Stellia
Knowflake

Posts: 76
From: Yorks, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted February 27, 2017 02:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stellia        Reply w/Quote
Thanks - I used to think the same way Soren and that the True Node was the obvious choice. Then I was reading Steven Forrest's Evolutionary Astrology recently and he says in that that because of the fluctuating motion of the path, the true node still can't be relied upon... And his personal research where people have been on the cusp etc, it was always the mean node in his experience that rang true.

Will try and dig out the quote...

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soren
Knowflake

Posts: 3409
From: infinite backwards point
Registered: Sep 2012

posted February 27, 2017 02:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren        Reply w/Quote
you mean their node was on the cusp of a sign, like around 0.1 aqua, but the true node had it at 29.8 cap, but from his "astro eye" he was sure that they were really an aqua north node?

well lots of people are wrong with guessing rising signs or sun signs, let alone a very mild in comparison node..

i dont know, if you at any time use astro.com and find the exact times the moon has a declination of 0, the true node is always exactly there, and that is what the nodes are, the place where the moon crosses the equator.

i heard a youtube guy say that the moon does fluctuate, about 0.00001% from it's expected path.

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soren
Knowflake

Posts: 3409
From: infinite backwards point
Registered: Sep 2012

posted February 27, 2017 02:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren        Reply w/Quote
i believe the moon leaves a metaphysical ring at its tail, like a meteor.

so each time it crosses, the 2 rings crossing is a "special formation" of energy. its notable.

if the moon has not yet crossed the ring, then i dont think a new node can be formed. so lets say the moon is about to cross in 14 hours, the last time it crossed was 28 days ago. its about to cross at 5.15 aqua, the last time it crossed was at 5.5 aqua. only the last time it crossed is valid, so the true node will calculate the node as 5.17 (since that's where it's theoretical path, WILL, be, if it had a path going forward of itself, that path). however in my belief, the true node would be when it's trail last connected, which would be at 5.5 aqua,

which sometimes the mean node may be closer.

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soren
Knowflake

Posts: 3409
From: infinite backwards point
Registered: Sep 2012

posted February 27, 2017 02:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren        Reply w/Quote
i think each time the moon's trail crosses, it stays there for a while, like maybe 70-80 days or longer. so really, the last time it crosses is the most potent crossing, but you are looking at 2 more crossings before that which are still there and noticeable.

so like this
furthest cross still there: 15.5 cancer
second last time crossing: 15.25 Cancer
recent time just crossed: 15.00 Cancer
(most potent crossing)

so the node's will be a little before where it is, but it will be at where it last crossed, you can calculate those areas on astro.com when the moon had 0 declination.

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Stellia
Knowflake

Posts: 76
From: Yorks, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted February 27, 2017 05:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stellia        Reply w/Quote
Thanks soren - this is really helpful (brain on brink of explosion but keeping up so far!) - is there any way of manually checking the declination situation do you know?

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soren
Knowflake

Posts: 3409
From: infinite backwards point
Registered: Sep 2012

posted February 27, 2017 05:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren        Reply w/Quote
actually now that i think of it its not that hard. you can use astrotheme to instantly move forward 7 days at a time. just find the times when the moon is conjunct the true node exactly, and that will be when it last crossed. and no problem.

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