posted December 15, 2018 06:25 PM            

Here's the original thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAstrologers/comments/a6jiwj/are_there_any_astrologers_who_have_challenged_and/

And here are my thoughts:

I think the solution is an expansion of definitions rather than relativity. Let me explain.

For example, especially 8th house associations suffer from a moralistic view I think - the way we deal with death rituals and sexual relations, especially sex work has changed tremendously in time, especially the last century. So why does the 8th house keep getting the short end of the stick, when it should represent the progression of mostly 7th house matters? I understand 8th house represents the private aspects of previously agreed upon familial or sexual relations. It feels heavy, intense and transformative. 8th house matters suffer from a moralistic treatment due to our general fear of death, change and sexual transgressions as humans. I believe we should transform the negative light we cast on 8th house, and include modern concepts such as couples therapy and assisted suicide under the 8th house. The 8th house is where we find the power to come alive again, and what is left to us from the already departed. It is such a beautiful, private part of the chart.

The way I perceive it from my readings, 5th house represents light and fun sexual activity with an eye towards procreation. It also rules childhood, competitive games and gambling. So I believe a factor of serendipitousness and chance plays a big role in 5th house matters. I do think there's truth to what you are saying about associating outward sexual expression with the 5th house. 5th house is indeed the house of the Sun and drama and the sign Leo. It's bubbly and full of activity. In my view, the fundamental difference between the 5th house and the 8th house is that the 5th house energy is rather transitory and does not promise transformation. It is light and creative. 5th house is sex is performative, 8th house sex is ritualistic and therapeutic. 8th house rules pretty much anything we would be uncomfortable to talk about with a coworker. Therefore, all of its sexual associations aren't necessarily negative or dark - it just feels intense, heavy and calls for thought and responsibility. It requires work. 5th house is a spin class, while 8th house is a silent retreat!

I really do think house associations would benefit so much from an open-minded update. E.g. I believe social media is a strictly 3rd house business, while LGBTQ issues must surely fall into the 11th.

I'd love to hear what others think. Any other associations you think should be updated and discussed?

posted December 16, 2018 02:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Would I be controversial if I say I associate the Sun with the 4th,Venus with the 5th and 8th with Saturn?

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posted December 16, 2018 06:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
How long (and widely) have you been studying, and selling your readings?

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posted December 16, 2018 07:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HieronymusTush:
I came across a post on reddit which gave me an opportunity to put into words something I've been thinking about for a long time: House associations which feel outdated, old or straight up moralistic.

Here's the original thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAstrologers/comments/a6jiwj/are_there_any_astrologers_who_have_challenged_and/

And here are my thoughts:

I think the solution is an expansion of definitions rather than relativity. Let me explain.

For example, especially 8th house associations suffer from a moralistic view I think - the way we deal with death rituals and sexual relations, especially sex work has changed tremendously in time, especially the last century. So why does the 8th house keep getting the short end of the stick, when it should represent the progression of mostly 7th house matters? I understand 8th house represents the private aspects of previously agreed upon familial or sexual relations. It feels heavy, intense and transformative. 8th house matters suffer from a moralistic treatment due to our general fear of death, change and sexual transgressions as humans. I believe we should transform the negative light we cast on 8th house, and include modern concepts such as couples therapy and assisted suicide under the 8th house. The 8th house is where we find the power to come alive again, and what is left to us from the already departed. It is such a beautiful, private part of the chart.

The way I perceive it from my readings, 5th house represents light and fun sexual activity with an eye towards procreation. It also rules childhood, competitive games and gambling. So I believe a factor of serendipitousness and chance plays a big role in 5th house matters. I do think there's truth to what you are saying about associating outward sexual expression with the 5th house. 5th house is indeed the house of the Sun and drama and the sign Leo. It's bubbly and full of activity. In my view, the fundamental difference between the 5th house and the 8th house is that the 5th house energy is rather transitory and does not promise transformation. It is light and creative. 5th house is sex is performative, 8th house sex is ritualistic and therapeutic. 8th house rules pretty much anything we would be uncomfortable to talk about with a coworker. Therefore, all of its sexual associations aren't necessarily negative or dark - it just feels intense, heavy and calls for thought and responsibility. It requires work. 5th house is a spin class, while 8th house is a silent retreat!

I really do think house associations would benefit so much from an open-minded update. E.g. I believe social media is a strictly 3rd house business, while LGBTQ issues must surely fall into the 11th.

I'd love to hear what others think. Any other associations you think should be updated and discussed?

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posted December 16, 2018 02:38 PM            

I gave my response there in reddit.

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"Drift like a cloud and flow like water, seeing that all life is a magnificent illusion, a playing of energy, and there is absolutely nothing fundamentally to be afraid of." -- Alan Watts

posted December 16, 2018 05:39 PM            

HieronymusTush
I had asked about your level of learning because I've met folks with hardly a few months exposure to astrology who "decide" they need to 'fix' astrology ...

The deeper I've gone, the more marvelous it seems.
Even when you go back into more medieval forms, it's amazing what you can bring back from those kinds of studies.
Really good to broaden and deepen one's view.

posted December 16, 2018 06:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HieronymusTush:
.. So why does the 8th house keep getting the short end of the stick, when it should represent the progression of mostly 7th house matters?

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Good question.

The 8th house holds the idea of merging and its creative power. It is just as applicable in economics as it is psychically or emotionally/sexually.

quote:

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The way I perceive it from my readings, 5th house represents light and fun sexual activity ..

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Yes.

quote:

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... with an eye towards procreation.

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No. In principle it is spontaneous and thoughtless about consequences just as the children/teens are you included. Penetrative/procreative sex is merging, 8th house. But it depends on the nuances of the chart. For example, those whose charts show a strong desire for security or stability in relationships (earth/fixity/Cancer) over the Asc and/or cusp of 5th don't do this kind of approach to physical intimacy or sex. So adjustment is needed in the way houses are seen.

This is a good example of why houses should not be given strict stand-alone definitions. You take the entire chart together. That is what synthesized interpretation is.

quote:

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I really do think house associations would benefit so much from an open-minded update.

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I agree, but it is better for individual astrologers to look deeper and study longer, rather than look to debate as a way of reforming something that changes generationally. Besides, we don't really yet have venue for proper peer review of astrological concepts and studies, except maybe the Canaveral Research Center. That is worth more than debate alone.

quote:

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E.g. I believe social media is a strictly 3rd house business ...

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Not when it involves global communications, which are always 9th house, regardless of platform used. 3rd house still refers to local travel and communication with close/known associates. 9th house relates to broadcasting, international communications, overlapping with Uranus's tele- energy via the Jupiter principle. Mail is Mercury/3rd until it is Airmail or changes countries. It was Mercury/3rd for the writer of the letter, but it intersects with what Jupiter/9th says of foreign countries when boundaries involving government/language/culture are crossed.

quote:

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while LGBTQ issues must surely fall into the 11th.

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Group identity and group interests/ideals do relate to the 11th house, regardless of label, but not one's sexuality by any description. So be careful not to conflate them.

A few years ago I argued with Noel Tyl in a post in his forum in which he approached interpretation of Bruce/Caityln Jenner's chart by saying 'sex' relates to the 5th and 8th houses, therefore we must look there to understand the gender change. No, I said. Changing one's gender relates to identity and how you feel within yourself, not sex itself, as in sex actions. That means Asc/1st and Moon. You go jumping right to the 5th and/or 8th and you'll miss the essence of it.

Astrologers, especially students are often too quick to jump to attributing prime astrological factors to houses that should first be understood related to the planetary principle behind it and the planetary aspects in the person's chart that are energies that can be used in a number of ways. There is no formula for categorizations by house that cover all variations of interpretation.

Planets are the energy, the prime movers in astrology -- the doer (or who). They must be located by both axes of measurement (longitude and declination) to know what is going on. Learning declinations is at least as important if not more important than learning houses and signs.

Sign (and dwad, decan) of the planet is the how of the expression, the mode of expression of each planet.

Houses are the where, 12 slices of life, relating to the 12 areas of life.

------------------
"Drift like a cloud and flow like water, seeing that all life is a magnificent illusion, a playing of energy, and there is absolutely nothing fundamentally to be afraid of." -- Alan Watts

posted December 18, 2018 07:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Group identity and group interests/ideals do relate to the 11th house, regardless of label, but not one's sexuality by any description. So be careful not to conflate them.

A few years ago I argued with Noel Tyl in a post in his forum in which he approached interpretation of Bruce/Caityln Jenner's chart by saying 'sex' relates to the 5th and 8th houses, therefore we must look there to understand the gender change. No, I said. Changing one's gender relates to identity and how you feel within yourself, not sex itself, as in sex actions. That means Asc/1st and Moon. You go jumping right to the 5th and/or 8th and you'll miss the essence of it.

Astrologers, especially students are often too quick to jump to attributing prime astrological factors to houses that should first be understood related to the planetary principle behind it and the planetary aspects in the person's chart that are energies that can be used in a number of ways. There is no formula for categorizations by house that cover all variations of interpretation.

[b]Planets are the energy, the prime movers in astrology -- the doer (or who). They must be located by both axes of measurement (longitude and declination) to know what is going on. Learning declinations is at least as important if not more important than learning houses and signs.

Sign (and dwad, decan) of the planet is the how of the expression, the mode of expression of each planet.

Houses are the where, 12 slices of life, relating to the 12 areas of life.

[/B]

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posted December 19, 2018 01:04 AM            

The system itself is timeless, it's our interpretations that change or are being challenged.

The first or the tenth house, for example, are what they have always been. Just because there are more or different vocations than 100 years ago, doesn't mean that we have to redefine the tenth house to fit in the new careers people are having.

I personally hate astrological descriptions and interpretations that go on forever but nothing is ever being said.
If we want to know about a matter then we should conduct a study with a large enough sample pool and the patterns will show.
It's easy as that.

Serbian astrologers are amazing when it comes to this. No sugarcoating, no abstract yada yada, no political correctness, no fear of calling it as it is.

This watered down theoretical crap and lack of applied astrology is just annoying.

posted December 19, 2018 07:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HelixID:

This watered down theoretical crap and lack of applied astrology is just annoying.

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I also wish there were more studies done in the field of astrology. Some of the PC talk that goes down nowadays loves to conclude that everything (no matter which system/method or interpretation you use) is 'correct' which is ridiculous.

With that being said, I did was thinking about a specific interpretation of Saturn in the 7th house usually explained as either you're going to marry an older person or you're going to 'marry' (or have a serious relationship) after your first saturn return, so after 29 years of age. Back in the day, this may have been an old age, but nowadays, it seems to be more the common age to settle down with someone. So doesn't it mean nowadays that those with saturn in the 7th will be later compared to other people in finding "the one" and the age might be closer to 40 ??

It's just another example that could give conclusive answers if studies were being done.