posted August 11, 2009 06:33 PM         

Okay...

I'm watching a show on VH1 about "self-made billionaires" and its making me sick to my soul. David Geffen has a private jet that costs 20 million dollars, and JK Rowling has a mansion bigger than Texas (okay that last part is a slight exaggeration). Do you have any idea how many starving children you could sponsor with that dough?? What is wrong with our culture? What is wrong with us, that we celebrate these people when they ought to be vilified?? These are not role-models, these are seriously sick, spiritually ill, people. I'm not saying you should give it all away.. by all means, keep 10 million for yourself, and you can still live like royalty for the rest of your days, but, for god's sake, this kind of wealth is obscene. And how about those fools on "MTV Cribs", flashing their gold, diamond-studded crucifixes? Flashing them in the face of everything Jesus stood for. The thought of it should make any healthy person sick. And dont tell me you earned it, and you worked hard for your position in the world (Oprah!!). Do you have any idea how hard the "average" person works? How about the average single mother? Do you really think that you did it all yourself? Without luck? Without god-given talents, like resourcefulness, drive, initiative, charisma, etc.? Do you take credit for all these things?? Wake up! "The power of fate is confessed only by the miserable, for the happy attribute all their success to prudence and merit." ~ Jonathan Swift I dont care how much good you do in the world. Remember the parable of the poor old woman, who gave her last few bits to charity, and whose sacrifice was counted greater than the so-called "generous" donations of wealthy men? Its not what you give, but what you keep for yourself. Your mansions, your jets, your designer clothes and jewelery. The masses may look on these as signs of your accomplishments, but the masses have always been blind. Aren't they really scarlet letters; emblems of your profound depravity? How dare we call these people "good"? I dont care how many websites you spawned, how many bands you signed, how many books you sold -- you are weak; you are spiritual degenerates. Go to a doctor, go to a priest, go to a desert shaman. Are you so immured in your gold-plated echo-chambers that you can't see how ridiculous you look to a third eye? I try to forgive and understand you, and have compassion for you, but, for God's sake, -- for God's sake -- in a world where you get your ass kissed on an hourly basis, while millions of people starve to death, perhaps a little bit of intolerance may be just what the good Lord ordered. Please, somebody, tell me I am not the crazy one here, because I am not the crazy one here. Wake up! Get real!! Stop wiping your ass with money that can save children's lives. Do I really have to say it? Do I have to be "that guy"? Okay, then, I'll say it: Think of the children!!!

posted August 11, 2009 07:38 PM         

"after $100 million its just a lot of pieces of paper, i mean how much do you need?"

posted August 11, 2009 07:56 PM         

That is, those who are working hard without are dreaming of becoming billionaires themselves (if they dare), and they wouldn't be anymore enlightened themselves. Heck, JK Rowling was once on welfare (and you can see in her novels just how much she despises the wealthy, which she almost certainly did before she joined them).

Another classic saying is that "money swore and oath; only those who love her would ever have her." I sometimes relate to this, because almost every single time I come into a significant windfall of money, I have people coming to me for me to give them some because they really need it. Out of necessity, I've come to restricted most of what I'll give to those I know will back me when I'm down in turn, and even that keeps me from getting ahead significantly.

I know for certain that if I managed to become a billionaire that I'd give away most of it to all kinds of foundations, charities, and such ('course I'd also spend a fair amount of money investigating them to make sure they were efficient & honest about what they were doing before giving a significant amount). Still, I generally don't hate the wealthy simply for being self-absorbed like much the rest of the human race.

Generally, I'll become irritated & worse when they use their money to oppress others (that includes using the government to rob us under the guise of "bail outs" as currently happening), show disdain for everyone else by judging people by how much money they have (I told one guy my age who had a major credit card who I'd just met that I didn't know anyone our age who had that, and he said with a chip on his shoulders that I ran with the wrong crowd, and that--his attitude that my friends who I cared deeply for were worth less than him for not having his kind of finances, not that he had money--was what ticked me off, and I gave a smile of false sweetness and an acidic "I don't think it's me in the wrong crowd"), or by blatant hypocrisy (eg, Al Gore in his ozone-destroying jet, though I'm more forgiving of others with jets who don't preach about their concern with the environment--OTOH, if Gore had extramarital affairs, I'd be more tolerant than I would be of plenty of "family values" Republicans as he's not the one preaching family values). 'Course these traits are just as annoying in people who make minimum wage, too, it's just much less noticeable to society at large.

posted August 11, 2009 08:52 PM         

Bill Gates also!
Gordon and Betty Moore, as well...
Here are more...
George Soros
Veronica Atkins
Eli and Edythe Broad

Not all are like that Valus, but I agree, many are as you say. As said above, it is just new money that feels the need to latch onto money, but as they grow spiritually, they sometimes give back. Along with the new money syndrome, it the desire to "buy" something that can't be bought, i.e. being part of the "inner circle" or elite. They forget that most of these elite people are born thus and usually have little money compared to the richest people on earth.

So, it tends not to make sense why a person would have billions, when a billion does indeed feel the same as a few millions; meaning that once a person reaches a certain level of wealth, everyone at or above that "certain" level can and will afford and receive the same things. There comes a point where the zeros become redundant, is what I am saying and those who fail to see this by constantly getting more and hoarding it are merely afraid.

edit: In other words, I agree with you, Valus. It is sickening.

You know... I am African, and at one hand, I see the Oprah's building schools, and such here, and it's great... but... All of these people can do more, and I hope I get the opportunity to do more.

I am so sick, sick to my core, of walking by hungry people, my brothers and sisters, starving while people are making plating their toilets gold. Hey, they have the right to do what they like I suppose, but what hurts me more Valus is where this gold came from.

Ag!

This is another subject, and I don't want to digress, but I see Hip-Hop stars and other stars coming here to South Africa and buying diamonds, while the people who mined these diamonds are starving. Oh, DE Beers and the diamond dealers make money, but what of the father who left a family to give his family a chance at survival? He is still mining! That big stone didn't help him much! It ****** me off! And, I don't even know how to change things. I just wish that I can someday.

posted August 11, 2009 08:57 PM         

katatonic,
If that is how gibson feels,
he should give away everything
he has, in excess of 100 million.
Talk is cheap. Literally.
And whether they flaunt it,
or merely hang onto it,
the children are still starving.
Though, i will grant you that
the ones who flaunt it exert a
worse infuence on society.

Dervish,
All good points.
But you can say of anyone that,
if they were in another's position,
they would do the same thing, since,
to really stand in another's shoes,
is to stand in their skin, as well.
Yes, many of us, with that wealth,
would be just as tempted to horde it,
and the rest of us would be just as tempted
if we had their wealth and weakness.
In their shoes, or in their skin,
we would be no better or worse than them.
So, yes, I denounce all of us, lol.
But, for practicality's sake,
I'll denounce the ones who do the crime,
before I'll denounce the ones who
would do the crime, if given the chance.
I can confidently say, with you,
that, in their shoes, i would not horde,
though, in their skin, i surely would.
Bottom line, it is deplorable,
however you look at it.

MoonWitch,
You didn't read my post.

quote:

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I dont care how much good you do in the world. Remember the parable of the poor old woman, who gave her last few bits to charity, and whose sacrifice was counted greater than the so-called "generous" donations of wealthy men? Its not what you give, but what you keep for yourself.

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posted August 11, 2009 09:00 PM         

Please see my reply to Moonwitch.

posted August 11, 2009 09:03 PM         

So...

posted August 11, 2009 09:07 PM         

quote:

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If you have more than ten million $,
something is very very wrong with you.

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YES.

posted August 11, 2009 09:09 PM         

quote:

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I agree with you, Valus. It is sickening.

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posted August 11, 2009 09:13 PM         

Are you two serious? Wow. Thought you wouldve been more open minded or been able to see something like that in a different light. It's the way of the world. It's unbalanced. How are you?

posted August 11, 2009 09:29 PM         

quote:

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"If you have more than ten million $,
something is very wrong with you."

Are you two serious? Wow. Thought you wouldve been more open minded or been able to see something like that in a different light. It's the way of the world. It's unbalanced. How are you?

Some people will seem to have more than others. Big deal. Share what you have. Even if it's a little. Even if it's not money. Maybe they are there to teach you a lesson or two...

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I am serious.

Anything in excess that is not put to use is a waste, and so many things could be done. Hoarding and keeping money is a sickness, if it has a use- then fine.
But why not keep it moving and do productive things with it? Now the world is unbalanced, ok so now what do we do? I accept it but I wont contribute to it, or feel gay toward the rich!
There will always be two extremes with every thing, but when the poor get you down and the rich make you angry, there is a conscience that says, enough is enough. Let's move toward something more balanced, you know, just for the experience, because it might be a whole lot more fun. We're either doing a dance to remember or a dance to forget.

Just rambling, coffee has me hyper.

posted August 11, 2009 09:31 PM         

it's not just the money also. for example, if rich people decided to spend all the money they can spare to bring abundance of food to the area of poverty in the war zone. the people who live in the area might just get offended that it's rich people's folly to throw money at them just like that. it's neither their fault nor the riches then.

it would be the perfect world if things were simple. and don't get me wrong, that would really be the most ideal. i hope for peace and equality in everyone's life, too. personally too, i wish i had a little more money to have an up-to-average life.

i know, i wonder the same as you everyday. when i walk with a friend, who is on welfare, he is often down to a few cents in his pocket at the end of the month. he's always wearing the same clothes, with lots of holes. yet those homeless people always come to him for money. because they know rich people would just ignore them. kind-hearted, he always gives them all he got, and eats only stale bread for the rest of the month. how unfair is that? i always almost feel like telling those homeless people his situation too, but the truth is, as long as WE have a roof above our heads, these homeless people also don't care if they are robbing the last few cents off of him either, and a lot of them just spend what they get to buy drugs. the world is a place like that.

posted August 11, 2009 09:34 PM         

not all rich people are horders or proud of their wealth. but if you said to bill gates 20 years ago "you're filthy rich! give it away!", he would not have been able to create the foundation he and his wife run today. granted, foundations are tax shelters, but people with that kind of money don't pay a lot of tax anyway...they sink it into assets that are not subject to as much tax...and rather they put it to good use to get the benefit for themselves than NOT.

i have friends from some very rich families, i mean, ESTABLISHED money. some of them ARE ashamed of themselves. and some of them gave it all away only to die ignored by their disapproving families of diseases that could have been cured if they had not been SO generous. therefore their money has reverted to the "firm". i consider that a loss to the world at large. so giving it all away is not necessarily the answer either.

sorry but i don't blame people who have lived dirt poor who strike it rich and are blown away by it. they usually settle down after awhile, and they also often spend themselves into early graves. if other people did not covet their success they would not be ON shows like Cribs (who wants to watch that? people who want to believe they can do it too...)

in fact i have nothing against people being as rich as croesus, as long as they pay the people who do the groundlevel work GOOD wages, and spread it around. plenty of people have gotten rich AND shared the profit with their workers. keanu reeves gave back half his matrix earnings, but he is still RICH from it...it's the hording and the more-more-more that get me, and that create wageslaves

personally the house i want would cost about $8 million. i want it so i can grow my own food, house ALL my (many)loved ones, and farm organic....it's basically a huge, ancient farmhouse on a nice big piece of farm and woodland, with its own water....and i just happen to love huge old houses with tons of history living alonside me.

but the COST is just a purchase price...in order to KEEP it i would have to have a lot of money for property taxes every year, and the wherewithal to keep the farm going...it would have to be some farm to raise that kind of money! i worked it out once, it would make a big pile...but it would not be horded OR squandered.

posted August 11, 2009 09:35 PM         

A New Russian was getting out of his Rolls Royce when a speeding truck ripped off the door to his car as he was getting out. He got out screaming as a cop pulled over, and he raced to the cop, screaming, "Officer! Did you see what he did to my beemer!?"

"You New Russians make me sick," snarled the cop. "You're so obsessed with wealth and things that you didn't even notice he also took your arm!"

Blinking, the New Russian looked to see that one of his arms was missing. Screaming again, he shouted, "My Rolex!"

Btw, a favorite KP villain was this rich guy ("Oh, but I am but a simple multibillionaire, I can't believe that what I do has any effect on anyone"--this after causing brown outs in Europe for powering his super giant sunlamps ) who got bored and took up "being evil & taking over the world" as a hobby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vawEAq42e8s&feature=PlayList&p=0E1045C82DCF6281&index=6

posted August 11, 2009 09:37 PM         

quote:

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Let's move toward something more balanced, you know

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I know. Not sure that's part of what's supposed to go on here though. After achieving an inner balance, the outer world imbalances might not shake you so much?

quote:

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We're either doing a dance to remember or a dance to forget.

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Even if we think we remember something, what do we really know?

posted August 11, 2009 09:43 PM         

A few hours later the butler comes back. The man says "OK I've a deal you can't refuse. Who can swim successfully across this pool filed with sharks, eels, and leaches. The winner may have whatever his heat desires."

No one replies so the man gives up.

All of a sudden the man hears a splash. One of the men is swimming as fast as he can, dodging all the sharks, eels, and leaches.

The billionaire was so impressed that someone had enough guts take up his challenge. He congratulates the man and asks him what he wants.

posted August 11, 2009 10:08 PM         

quote:

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I'm watching a show on VH1 about "self-made billionaires" and its making me sick to my soul.

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If you are that sensitive, why not give your TV away to a poor person who could pawn it.

Better yet, bring it to the dump like I did.

Where it belongs.

posted August 11, 2009 11:00 PM         

I think that's an incredibly sad statement.

Maybe it would be more worthy an act to be working in a soup kitchen right now or helping the needy instead of posting on a message board diminishing what others have done.

See?

It's easy to sit in judgement of what other people are doing. Right now I could be up the street buying the homeless man dinner.

So could you.

That being said - I don't see the point of gold plated toilets and 100's of cars either. But I don't know those people and I don't know what else they do in their lives and what kind of karmic debt or karmic gifts they have. I think it's ridiculous that J-Lo would spend $5000 on mink fur eyelashes and pays someone ot be on the set of her videos crazy amounts of money to tweek her breasts so they look perky for the cameras. But maybe she gives back in other ways.

posted August 11, 2009 11:11 PM         

It's far better to look at what you can do and are willing to do rather than looking at someone else in judgement.

It's a waste of time.

lol - me posting this is a waste of time but what the hell? I just piled a bunch of stuff into my car for Goodwill. Which is really nothing... I could be donating my laptop, or my big computer, or my flatscreen tv, or my synthesizer, or anything else I don't really need.

posted August 12, 2009 01:16 AM         

Valus dude, man you can rant! Social reform runs through your veins, I can tell. I can't disagree with a thing you say. But of course when you take a strong stance like that, there is always room to find some hypocracy in your words, or your attitude - that's just the nature of the beast when you get political, which you are by the way, whether you mean to be or not....because you're all about social reform..very plutonian.

And I think some multi-millionairs are just so overwhelmed by the requests for money, they freeze up and close their eyes, plug their ears and sing "la la la I can't hear any of you" after a while. Ignorance is bliss. And the heart just slowly freezes up, until something that really touches them comes along, and then they get all over it. It's often very personal, like funding and starting a dance accademy in the Bronx, or a nano-science scholership fund in Albania or some obscure and very personal thing like that. It would be silly to give your millions away to governments of poverty stricken countries to feed the poor, because you would never be able track where it actually was spent. You COULD give to the Red Cross, but even that can be sketchy...etc...so people tend to give to more personal, private causes.

posted August 12, 2009 02:44 AM         

quote:

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I know. Not sure that's part of what's supposed to go on here though. After achieving an inner balance, the outer world imbalances might not shake you so much?

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But isn't that why we have been fooled? Such harmony and equanimity within creates too much apathy. everyone knows and feels in some way that the human spirit is broken. Not being moved or shaken seems a bit numb? Are we living too much inside ourselves?