Thread Closed  Topic Closed
  Lindaland
  Lindaland Central 2.0
  Intercourse vs. Orgasm

Post New Topic  
profile | register | preferences | faq


This topic has been transferred to this forum: Sweet Peas In The Rain.
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Intercourse vs. Orgasm
AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 7897
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 15, 2009 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not long ago, a Canadian research team discovered something surprising: In the recipe for great sex, orgasm is optional. Said the head researcher, "There is plenty of evidence that most people believe that the secret to sexual fulfillment is technical, that it's about better manual and oral stimulation techniques." In fact, "You could have terrible sex with orgasms and despite orgasms, but you could have optimal sexuality without orgasm."

So where did humans get the idea that sex must always lead to orgasm? At first I suspected our primitive mammalian mating program, which delivers a reinforcing "Yes!" with each climax. Turns out there's more to the story. Both the Church and the experts who compiled the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) have contributed to the belief that intercourse must be fertilization-driven (or orgasm-driven).

Church father Augustine of Hippo (b. 354 CE) is well known for his prayer, "Grant me chastity and continence...but not yet!" Less well known is his conclusion that because sex is a consequence of the "animal" in man--and animals have no interest in using sex to foster love or unity -- the proper use of sex in marriage is strictly for breeding. Whoa!

Actually, the infamous bonobo chimps, whose males sport supersize testicles to produce lots of competitive sperm, nevertheless engage in "rather casual and relaxed" sexual activity for social bonding, frequently without orgasm. And macaque male monkeys ejaculate in scarcely half of their copulations. That's probably more than the Church fathers would have wanted to know, but the point is that primate sex often serves goals other than fertilization or orgasm.

Augustine's error has been used to fend off some of sex's most uplifting gifts. In the last century, when Belgian and French Catholics discovered that gentle intercourse without orgasm was a "means of achieving a more perfect, more spiritual conjugal love," the pope condemned it. Some Church authorities actually declared "incomplete sexual acts" mortal sins.

When it comes to orgasm, Church authorities are not the only conservatives. Whenever I've asked experts about doing a few weeks of research comparing the stress levels or healing speeds of couples engaging in orgasm-based sex with couples practicing gentle intercourse without the goal of orgasm, I received the same advice: "That wouldn't get past our ethics committee because sex without orgasm is considered a paraphilia, or sexual disorder." (However, this pro-orgasm experiment passed: electrical devices were implanted in women's spines to see if they would produce climaxes via remote control.)

Now I have no doubt that people have sometimes avoided orgasm during sex for pathological reasons. But benefits from the practice of gentle intercourse without orgasm have been reported so often, and in so many cultures, that emotionally healthy people must have made this choice too.

In any event, are our codified convictions serving lovers? They create unnecessary distress and frustration in the less orgasmic or anorgasmic -- and their mates. They also indirectly bolster the assumption that pursuing sexual urges to exhaustion is a neutral, or even beneficial, practice. For instance, a man recently assured me that, "men ejaculate 1-3 times a day." Persuaded as he is that men are veritable semen fountains, he might be startled to learn that when subjects engaged in mere a "10-day depletion experience," ejaculating an average of 2.4 times per day, their sperm output remained below pre-depletion levels for more than five months.

What other not-so-welcome, subtle changes accompany this one, given the powerful influence of our delicate reward circuitry (the brain mechanism behind our drives) on equilibrium and mood?

I suspect that orgasm feels great not because it is an unqualified health or psychological benefit, but because our genes want us to expend our effort on their top priority: propelling them into the next generation.

The neurochemical "Yes!" of climax may not indicate that we're equipped to engage in orgasm-driven sex every time we feel sexual desire. Just as a love of fine chocolate doesn't mean that we'd be wise to eat an entire box. A 20-year old found this out the hard way:

    We knew we weren't going to see each other for a while so we had sex 4 times in the night and once in the morning. The next day, I had weird feelings like I was pulling away from her or didn't want her or something, which cannot be because I know I love this girl. I feel very fatigued, light headed or zoned out, and depressed. This is not like me.

As I learn more about the effects of sex on the brain, I realize it makes sense to take into account how recently, or intensely, we have climaxed. It appears that frequent, or especially intense, orgasm can create tolerance (a need for increasing stimulation to achieve future orgasms). It can also lead to satiety and habituation, which may show up as subconscious irritation, out of sync libidos, performance demands and insecurities. And it may promote the use of risky sexual enhancement measures as lovers try to overcome their built-in biological brakes with force. Not to be alarmist, but Viagra, for example, has been associated with sudden, irreversible blindness and has been blamed for many deaths through heart attack and stroke. Perhaps we are pressuring ourselves to reach unrealistic benchmarks.

Meanwhile, gentle, relaxed intercourse without orgasm is "off limits" (for Catholics) and "dysfunctional" (for the rest of us). As a consequence, if couples don't know about, or have fallen out of the habit of, using other daily bonding behaviors to sustain the sparkle in their relationship, they are quite likely to rely only on sex with attempted orgasm(s) to keep their union strong.

What would bonobo life look like if one of the chimps' favorite social-bonding techniques, rubbing genitals, had to result in mutual climax--or produce disappointment and resentment? I think zoologists would see a lot of cranky chimps.

A more relaxed approach to sex may prove especially beneficial for pair-bonders like us. Our nervous system appears to reward us for both close, trusted companionship and the exchange of selfless, affection. In other pair-bonding species, "sexual behavior is neither especially frequent nor especially fervent." Many interactions between mates take the form of resting together, mutual grooming, and "hanging out." (The Myth of Monogamy)

Maybe our limitations exist to urge us toward less driven affection. Perhaps it's time to expand our lovemaking repertoire to include relaxed, non-goal-oriented sexual activity with the primary goals of closer bonds and increased contentment.

Link

____________

This was tweeted by Tim Ferris a little bit ago. I thought it was interesting, and I agree with the sentiment.

IP: Logged

koiflower
Knowflake

Posts: 1984
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 15, 2009 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting reading!

I think the fluctuation of hormones have some influence. I think I had a lot of hormones in my teenage years and couldn't do anything about it

I'm happy to be 'hanging out' with my companion (in my 40's), and anything else that erupts is a bonus - lol

IP: Logged

blue moon
Knowflake

Posts: 1344
From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ever read 'Wild Swans'? If my recollection serves me well it was her grandmother who referred to her husband's spiritual belief of retaining his yang essence, etc.

IP: Logged

Yin
Moderator

Posts: 3258
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Taoists believe that preservation of semen leads to immortality. They also claim that men can orgasm without ejaculating. True or false?

quote:
Qi (Lifeforce) and Jing (Essence)

The basis of all Taoist thinking is that qi is part of everything that exists. It is related to another energetic substance contained in the human body known as jing, and once all this has been expended, you will die. Jing could be lost from the body in a variety of ways, most notably the bodily fluids. Taoists would use practices to stimulate/increase and conserve their bodily fluids to great extents, and some reportedly recycled and composted their own fecal matter. The fluid that contained the most Jing was male semen. Therefore the Taoists believed that men should decrease the frequency or totally avoid ejaculation in order to conserve their life essence.[2]
[edit] Male control of ejaculation

Many Taoist practitioners link the loss of ejaculatory fluids to the loss of vital life force: where excessive fluid loss results in premature aging, disease, and general fatigue. While some Taoists contend that one should never ejaculate, others provide a specific formula to determine the maximum amount of regular ejaculations in order to maintain health.[3] The general idea is to limit the loss of fluids as much as possible to the level of your desired practice. As these sexual practices were passed down over the centuries, some practitioners have given less importance to the limiting of ejaculation. Nevertheless, the "retention of the semen" is one of the foundational tenets of Taoist sexual practice.[4]

There are different methods to control ejaculation prescribed by the Taoists. In order to avoid ejaculation, the man could do one of two things. He could pull out immediately before orgasm, a method which Joseph Needham termed "coitus conservatus". [5] The second method involved the man applying pressure on an area between the scrotum and the anus, thus retaining the sperm. While, if done incorrectly can cause a retrograde ejaculation, the Taoists believed that the semen traveled up into the head and "nourished the brain."[6] This method is referred to by some Taoist scholars as "The Million Dollar Point" (reference Mantak Chia), regarding it as either a cheap lesson for income or a backup method, believing that it somehow lessened the loss of "jing" from a full ejaculation. Some modern teachers have come to the conclusion that the method should not be used because of potential dangers.[7] Another method involves the Taoist to train himself to separate the impulses of ejaculation and orgasmic contraction (the contraction of the pelvic muscles that "pump" the prostate and the ejaculate). By separating these impulses, at the point of orgasm, the man can halt penetration but remain inside his partner, and forcibly clench his pelvic floor ("stunting" the initial prostate contractions), while simultaneously adopting a meditation like "intention" that these Taoists believe redirect not the physical sperm, but the life energy(jing) it contains up the back and to the center of the brain. This way the man will still have orgasm, but will not ejaculate, and most importantly will not lose his erection. This formula prescribes the man to climb a "ladder" of escalating orgasms in conjunction with the meditation like "intention", in order to cultivate and store massive amounts of "jing". If performed successfully the male should have no stagnating pain in the testes, and should have no semen in his urine, as well as the health benefits expected by practitioners. Those that practice this method believe that it is one of the keys to immortality.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoist_sexual_practices

IP: Logged

blue moon
Knowflake

Posts: 1344
From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wish I could remember what page in the book this was mentioned.

I have kids jumping over me here so my research on this subject will be limited. In more ways than one - there was a lack of pelvic floor effort way back when.

quote:

This collection of beautiful prints offer provocative insights to illuminate certain facets of Chinese sexuality such as the practise of coitus reservatus, the primacy of the female orgasm, and the custom of female footbinding that was the obsession of the entire race for ten centuries.



http://www.geocities.com/ototero/n-erotic.html


With warnings to the under 18s and easily offended.


IP: Logged

AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 7897
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know that modern medical science jives with ancient taoism. I'm pretty sure that they've found it healthy for males to ejaculate (prostate health and all that).

I just agree with the author of the article that getting naked and having fun need not be goal-oriented. Put my Virgo Moon at ease, relax, and let whatever happens happen. And I think she's right about the bonding aspect, too.

IP: Logged

Yin
Moderator

Posts: 3258
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I don't know that modern medical science jives with ancient taoism. I'm pretty sure that they've found it healthy for males to ejaculate (prostate health and all that).

Maybe they just wanted to learn how to please their women again and again and again?!

quote:
getting naked and having fun need not be goal-oriented

Agreed.

Why, oh, why do men feel like they have to perform every time? That puts a lot of tension on the partners too. I personally like to cuddle as much as possible. If anything comes out of it - great! If not - great!

For some reason this song popped into my head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE0pwJ5PMDg

IP: Logged

AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 7897
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

IP: Logged

blue moon
Knowflake

Posts: 1344
From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
And I think she's right about the binding aspect, too

Not sure I am quite with you on the foot fetish thing, but to each their own.

IP: Logged

GypseeWind
Knowflake

Posts: 5869
From: Love Street, she lingers long on Love Street..
Registered: May 2009

posted October 16, 2009 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GypseeWind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AG, you sure know how to get a persons attention, I mean with your subject heading. (cripes, with the puns already!)

IP: Logged

AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 7897
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, to be honest, the heading isn't really my idea. That's the name of the article. It is eye-catching, though, and rather overt.

IP: Logged

Got Gemini?
Knowflake

Posts: 456
From: Mercury
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Got Gemini?     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As I was reading the first few sentences, I was like this is bogus, i'm trying to O everytime. But upon reading the whole thing, it makes a lot of sense. The closeness that can be achieved without O'ing is quite nice. This is a great read!

------------------
Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚ (Mutual reception with Moon)
And yes, i'm a guy!

IP: Logged

letram
Knowflake

Posts: 1141
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 16, 2009 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for letram     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"hey also claim that men can orgasm without ejaculating. True or false?"

yes they can.

IP: Logged

SunChild
unregistered
posted October 18, 2009 01:14 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We like to 'ride the wave' as long as possible, extend it for hours, the point is not the orgasm, but a nice bonus!
Not focusing on the orgasm makes love making WAY more pleasurable. The goal is to enjoy our blending of energies, the longer the better. The slower the better.
We use the same principle with a Yoni massage or a Penis massage.

IP: Logged

Spanky Butler
unregistered
posted October 18, 2009 08:41 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ORGASM!!!!!!


YAY TEAM.


IP: Logged

PeaceAngel
Knowflake

Posts: 4313
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 28, 2009 06:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think Hollywood depiction of sex has led to the idea that it's about the orgasm. I know there's only so little time that can be allocated to a sex scene in a movie so they tend to have to "finish" quite quickly to show their, errr, point. I really do think a lot of people are influenced by these images. Like women who expect their husband to be like the men in soap operas. I'll take Ridge. Well, not really. Well, okay, but only if I can marry him, then his father, then him again, his brother, his sister, his long lost hat, his cat and dog simultaneously and him a few more times in between.

I was thinking about this question today. Yes, it was a boring day in class. I was thinking that if orgasming is the agenda, then it really doesn't matter who the subject it - the sex is impersonalised - and so can be with anyone. Sure, everyone has purely physical desires and that needs an outlet too.

I don't think sex has to lead to orgasm. They can vary in substance and intensity anyhow. If two people are out to show love to each other or to just give each other physical pleasure, there's more to the body than just the genitals. I'd rather be on first base for hours than third.

IP: Logged

Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 625
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted October 28, 2009 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, kissing leads to an incredible high, one that can leave you glowing.

Here's one of my YT favorites about Willow & Tara from BtVS set to a song called This Kiss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hag-EqiIKc

That song explains it well, IMO.

IP: Logged

SunChild
unregistered
posted October 28, 2009 09:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"We will make love an art and we will make love like artists." - Marianne Williamson

"If you cannot face directly your sexuality, you will never discover your true spirituality." - White Tigress Manual


Transmuting Sexual Energy

Now that we have generated sexual energy it is important that we move the sexual energy through the rest of the body. Most people in our culture have no idea what to do with their sexual energy/arousal. We feel horny or filled with lust and so the only thing that we know to do is to have sex and get rid of that feeling. That is one option, but there are others. If you do not have a partner, or if intercourse is not an option for you at this time, you can transmute the energy through breath or by creating something (a painting or piece of music etc.). A great breathing technique that I often use is called the Transmutation Breath. Take a deep breath in drawing the sexual feelings up the spine and into your head, hold the breath and visual the sexual energy dancing in your head, take a sniff of air or swallow and then exhale and allow the energy to spread through the body. Another option for moving sexual energy is to actual enter into sexual activity either with yourself or your partner and then use the transmutation breath as you are approaching orgasm or ejaculation, do this at least three times before going over the edge! The practice of transmuting energy is very good for us. Studies have proven that when people get close to orgasm they produce the hormones that help us to feel happier. If you do this a number of times you are producing more and more feel good hormones in your body.
-Jaiya

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Open Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright 2000-2013

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a