posted May 10, 2009 11:20 AM         

Some would wonder why anyone would adhere to Socialist governmental, social and economic policies which have shown themselves to be abject failures everywhere they were ever tried and killed up to 200,000,000 of their own citizens in the process.

Yet, we find so called...self identified "Progressives" laboring away attempting to "remake" America into a Socialist nation and some citizens who are not too bright buying into their Marxist bullshiiit.

"Progressives"/Socialists have been running away from Hitler and Mussolini since Hitler declared war on Russia. Up until that time Hitler was one of the darlings of the "Progressives/Socialist set. Russia was the Socialist model of what American "Progressives" believed was the model of good government. Never mind that Lenin and Stalin had up to 100,000,000 of their own citizens killed. Killed, not in war but in ruthless, murderous internal terror campaigns, sometimes for nothing more than the sheer terror that spread through the population. Hitler and Mussolini were both Socialists, said they were Socialists, authored Socialist writings and governed Germany and Italy in the mode of Socialist thought. Progressive/Socialists have been running away from Hitler and Mussolini ever since and still are.

Socialism is all about control over every facet of life. Control over lives by those who have self appointed themselves as more intelligent, more moral and more spiritual than anyone else and therefore well able to direct the affairs of everyone else.

The question which "Progressives"/Socialists never want anyone to ask is: If "Progressives"/Socialists are so superior to everyone else in every category, then why is Socialism such a dismal failure? Don't ask that question and expect a rational answer. Expect instead attempts to change the subject or re-frame the debate.

I and others here have spoken to the dismal failures of Socialism, where it always leads and identifying characteristics of Socialism and Socialists in general. Those commentaries are spread all over this forum.

The following article lays out clearly and in detail what the end game is for "Progressives/Socialists. While "Progressives/Socialists wrap their bullshiiit in a mantle of helping others, they're all about total control, power and nothing else.

May 10, 2009
What the Progressives Want
By Carol Negro

Progressives divide the world into victims and exploiters, and see themselves as saviors of the underdogs who are incapable of fending for themselves. And that requires greater government power in their hands, to vanquish the exploiters. This perspective explains much of what President Obama is doing with the vast powers at his disposal.

This administration has big business in its sights. While there are a couple of corporations like G.E. who are court favorites because they do the Progressives' bidding...the current government's attitude toward commerce is that they exploit the masses as labor or consumer, are run by fat-cats who don't pay their "fair share", and should be regulated by the government which is working in "the best interests of the People".

Only one thing matters to the Progressives-in the Oval Office and in Congress-and that is growing the central government and its power.

Illegal immigration, like abortion is a cause celebre...and Progressives will resist the smallest limitation on the grounds that it might lead to the idea that there are legitimate reasons to control borders.

They use the same "logic" with abortion: Letting live babies die unattended in broom closets after botched abortions must not be outlawed because it might lead to the further limitation of a woman's right to "choose".

Progressives offer all sorts of explanations for their bizarre, inefficient, ineffective, illogical, irrational, contradictory, and demonstrably failed theories and policies. But that's just their puppet show; their circuses for public consumption.

There is one goal, and one goal only for Progressives...Government growth and its intrusion into every aspect of our lives. When you understand that, all their apparently idiotic policies make perfect sense.

During the swine flu scare, the administration did not refuse to close the border because of "commerce", or because the "horses are already out of the barn" as Obama so creatively suggested. They refused to close the border, regardless of consequences to the citizens and our medical system, because the more illegals in America, the bigger the government required to take care of them. And the higher the likelihood they will re-elect the Progressives who provide them with myriad free government services and promise more, more, more.

That's the reason for in-state tuition rates, sanctuary cities, social security payments, housing, welfare, food-stamps, and free medical care for illegals. They don't give a damn about the education, safety, health or financial security of illegal aliens.

Haven't we all been astonished at the seemingly indulgent care the government shows to illegals but withholds from citizens?

Progressives don't care about illegals any more than about citizens, They just know their addition to the population and their dependence on government puts a huge sector of the population, immediately and relatively painlessly under their direct control. It would be harder to force tens of millions of relatively self-sustaining and resistant Americans to become dependent on government. Exploiting ignorant peasants is so much faster and easier.

Growing government is the real reason Progressives are pushing socialized medicine. They know perfectly well it doesn't work. They are neither blind nor stupid. They don't care about your health, or what healthcare costs you now, or about rationing or low quality care. No arguments about the inadequacy of government-run healthcare will move them. Socialized Medicine grows government, and gives it total power over our bodies. They will literally, with the stroke of a pen, have life and death power over every single person in the country. It doesn't get more totalitarian than that.

The reason for gun registration is not the safety of citizens, they know perfectly well that most legal gun owners are responsible and, in fact, have fewer accidents with firearms than most police departments. They don't care if you get shot by a criminal. They don't care if criminals are the only people with guns. They don't care if the streets are safe or not. They don't care if criminals get brazen and bold like they are now in England & Australia where they have confiscated legal guns. What they do care about is that registering guns gives government more power over more people in more ways. And they know guns in the hands of citizens is a direct threat to their power-lust ambitions.

They don't care about the "Earth". Controlling energy gives them total control of the means of production. Which translates as total control over food, shelter, goods and services. It's the perfect, undercover communist/fascist coup...as they wrap themselves in virtue for "saving the planet." Hitler was an "environmentalist" too.

They don't care about endangered species. They care about being able to control private property, the single most important bulwark against government tyranny.

Progressives don't care about children. They care about growing the next generation of zombies (who) believe in, support and trust Big Government. Does anyone aware of the education system in America believe that those who run it care about "the children" when it graduates illiterates, indoctrinates rather than informs, and literally requires that children not think for themselves, that punished "diverse" thought, that discourages excellence and achievement and competition?

Progressives don't care about women. The only 'liberation' they want for mothers, is from husbands who could keep them from being dependent on the state.

They don't care about blacks. They only want to keep them on the plantation, voting for Progressives en masse while receiving just enough to keep them ignorant, broken, hungry and angry, so they'll believe they need their masters, the Federal Government, to eat, and despise and fear any path that would make them independent...like God, good marriages, children with fathers, pride of accomplishment, respect for education, or a focus beyond race.

Progressives don't care about gays. They only want to break marriage, damage the culture, hurt the morals, virtues and culture of a strong and prosperous middle class...which so undermines totalitarianism.

They don't care about "social justice" or "fairness". They just want cover to loot and cripple the productive, the independent, the individualists, the entrepreneurs. A strong industrial/businessclass is dangerous to authoritarians. Free-Marketeers are the enemies of tyranny.

The government Progressives' arguments, excuses, reasons and explanations seem stupid and irrational because they are false. It's why Obama so often sounds like an idiot, contradicting himself regularly, and why Pelosi keeps getting caught in outright lies.

There is just one goal for Progressives'. No matter what nonsense they spew, bigger government is the real objective.

Every single time.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/what_the_progressives_want.html

Let me add to that last paragraph.

There is just one goal for Progressives'. No matter what nonsense they spew, bigger government is the real objective. Bigger and all intrusive government which they control.

posted May 10, 2009 01:51 PM         

Denmark, Finland and the Netherlands rated at the top of the list, ranking first, second and third, respectively. Outside Europe, New Zealand and Canada landed at Nos. 8 and 6, respectively. The United States did not crack the top 10. Switzerland placed seventh and Belgium placed tenth.
The report looked at subjective well-being, defined as life satisfaction. Did people feel like their lives were dominated by positive experiences and feelings, or negative ones?
To answer that question, the OECD used data from a Gallup World Poll conducted in 140 countries around the world last year. The poll asked respondents whether they had experienced six different forms of positive or negative feelings within the last day.
Some sample questions: Did you enjoy something you did yesterday? Were you proud of something you did yesterday? Did you learn something yesterday? Were you treated with respect yesterday? In each country, a representative sample of no more than 1,000 people, age 15 or older, were surveyed. The poll was scored numerically on a scale of 1-100. The average score was 62.4.

Why did the northern European countries come out looking so good? Overall economic health played a powerful role, says Simon Chapple, senior economist from the Social Policy Division of the OECD, which put together the report.

While the global economic crisis has taken a toll on every nation, the countries that scored at the top still boast some of the highest gross domestic product per capita in the world. Denmark, which got the highest score, is not only a wealthy country, it's also highly productive, with a 2009 GDP per capita of $68,000, according to the International Monetary Fund. The United States' GDP per capita, by contrast, is $47,335. Though the U.S. got an above-average score of 74, it did not break the top 10.

Wealth alone does not bring the greatest degree of happiness. Norway has the highest GDP per capita on the list — $98,822 — yet it ranked ninth, not first. On the other hand, New Zealand's happiness level is 76.7 out of 100 on the OECD list, but its 2009 GDP per capita is just $30,556.

posted May 10, 2009 02:46 PM         

No one who lives in Socialist Europe..where people have to pull their own teeth and schedule health care 6 months in advance really believes any of that horseshiiit...not to mention the fact lots of people die waiting to be seen by a physician or have treatment denied by some bubble brained Checkist chair warming bureaucrat.

posted May 10, 2009 03:26 PM         

laced through every discussion i have had with you is an attempt to point out that though they may not agree with you, people with other viewpoints are not ALWAYS wrong, and that socialism is not always perpetrated by the likes of marx, lenin, or whomever else you identify it with.

i do not identify with socialism. but i have SEEN that so called socialist countries are from from unanimously miserable or poor. there is a difference between MOST modern socialists and the ones you are so afraid of. and profiling goes on no matter who is in power. sorry it's tending to be on your side at this point. now you know how the other side felt when it was their turn but still you have no sympathy or understanding that not everyone thinks like you and that that is not the end of the world.

the reason i asked the question about elizabeth I on the other thread was that in her day at least half her country thought she would lead them to ruin. with hindsight one can see that though she presided in a time of unprecedented change (as we are living through now) she managed to hold to tradition AND encourage progress as she thought best. england became a world power and remained so for centuries because of her despite her being that IMPOSSIBLE thing, a reigning queen.

i don't agree with everything that's going on right now. i NEVER agree with everything that's going on in the political scene. but time will tell "who has fell and who's been left behind...". it is not up to you to decide whether i belong here or not.

posted May 10, 2009 04:35 PM         

I don't know how many people have lost their lives just trying to get to America but I would wager it's plenty. Yet, we have within our ranks those who believe there's a better form of government, better economic system, better everything. Why not leave and make room for those who actually buy into America and want to come here..those who in their beliefs and in their hearts are already "Americans"?

posted May 12, 2009 04:46 PM         

Historically a large number of those people would have lost their lives if they didn't make the move.....(Irish Famine comes to mind)......

Don't be making the presumptuous mistake of believing any of those people actually wanted to move to the USA.

With regards to the Us of today I wouldn't even contemplate the move......And those who do are probably buying into the 'American Dream' and think they are travelling to the Wonderful World of OZ, but what's happening to that world now? It has been crashing for years and the Iraq war etc, 911 was just a distraction from the truth that Capitalism doesn't work because people are too greedy. Socialism probably will not work for the same reason.... My thought though is to concentrate on the word 'social' and work at changes there rather than focussing on economics.

posted May 12, 2009 05:07 PM         

I do know lots of Cubans have drowned or been captured and executed by Fidel Castro for attemping to exit the Communist Workers Paradise of Cuba across the Straits of Florida.

posted May 12, 2009 07:23 PM         

I haven't seen a single line out of you that would remotely indicate you believe in American ideals, America itself, the American economic system, the US Constitution or the American people themselves.

posted May 12, 2009 10:19 PM         

Not the people...too ignorant and wrapped up in America and American ideals; definitely not citizen of the world types.

Not the system of government...Constitutional Republic instead of the Socialist welfare states you find more attractive.

Not the economic system..Free Market Capitalism which you find oppressive, repressive and subject to the greed of what Marx would call...greedy Capitalists.

posted May 13, 2009 07:09 AM         

Get it acoustic. I'm not recruiting people for a like minded political action committee, party or recruiting for anything else.

Neither am I attempting to change the minds of accidental Americans. You are what you are. I would be quite satisfied to see accidental Americans doing their thing in a country where they find their maximum happiness. That's not the United States.

Oh yeah, one last thing. Take Barack Hussein O'Bomber with you.

Barack Obama's Declaration of Dependence

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one Messiah to dissolve the historic bonds that have connected his subjects with the fundamental beliefs of a bunch of dead white guys, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of Marx entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that I should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

I hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men, womyn, transgendered and questioning individuals deserve equal division of goods, that they are endowed by Me with certain unalienable rights, that among these are the right to abort life, servitude to the state, and the pursuit of taxpayer-supported benefits. That to secure these rights, government is instituted in Me, deriving my just powers from the consent of a Democrat Congress, ACORN, and Universal Voluntary Public Service. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of Me to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Big Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing (with the help of the groups previously named) My powers in such form, as to Me shall seem most likely to effect My subjects' safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that My government short established should be changed for causes I deem appropriate; and accordingly all my inexperience hath shown that personkind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the oppressive regime instituted by dead white men to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce my subjects under absolute Evil Capitalism, it is My right, it is My duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future Social Security. - Such has been the patient sufferance of these downtrodden victims of Evil Capitalists; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. This history of the present Representative Republic is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute freedom for these victims. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a slavering mainstream media.

This Representative Republic was founded on the principles of limited government, and does not allow Me to make all decisions without impunity.

This Representative Republic allows for too many States' rights.

This Representative Republic allows Me to serve only two terms in the highest office in the land.

This Representative Republic allows for too much personal freedom, assuming that individuals know best how to spend the money that they earn and how best to live their lives.

This Representative Republic allows for the free market, not all-knowing bureaucrats, to right any wrongs in the economy.

This Representative Republic expects judges to uphold, not enact, law.

This Representative Republic allows private citizens to own firearms, thus allowing them to protect themselves and their family from all intrusions (including those from government).

This Representative Republic does not guarantee electoral outcomes for any one particular party - namely, My party.

This Representative Republic guarantees citizens equality before the law - not social justice as defined by activist judges and legislators.

In every stage of these oppressions, I have petitioned for redress in the least humble terms: My repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Representative Republic, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define oppressive Evil Capitalism, is unfit to be the government of a people yearning for Hope and Change.

Nor have I been wanting in attention to my Global Citizen brethren. I have warned them from time to time of their attempts by their elected leaders to follow in the footsteps of the United States. I have reminded them of the circumstances of America's many mistakes. I have appealed to their systems of justice and social programs, which I hope to emulate. I have also appealed to our enemies, as I have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow the usurpations of America, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. I must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces America's sovereignty, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, superiors in war, in peace superiors.

I, therefore, the Messiah of the United States of America, acting of my own volition, appealing to Myself for the rectitude of my intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of Myself, solemnly publish and declare that the United States ought to be dependent states; that they are absolved from the Tenth Amendment, and that all political connection between them and the Federal Government, is and ought to be of a dependent nature; and that as subservient and dependent states and citizens thereof, they have no power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, or do any other acts and things without express permission from Federal Government thus represented by Me. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of the Nanny State, I pledge to oversee your lives, your fortunes, and what is left of your sacred honor.

Signed,

Barack Hussein O'Bomber

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obamas_declaration_of_d.html

posted May 13, 2009 10:49 AM         

You are, after all speaking from the bubble world unreality which caused you to allege the US repressed/oppressed Iraqi citizens...when Saddam was still sitting in his palaces...and US military forces had yet to be so much as mobilized in the pursuit of overthrow of the Saddam Socialist regime.

You are, after all the space cadet who said the US was remiss for not packing up a water treatment plant and shipping it to Saddam...when Saddam was still sitting in his palaces. UPS delivery for Saddam.

You are, after all the space cadet who declared terrorists "ballsy"..code word for brave warriors..who opened up on unarmed civilians with automatic weapons..including women and children. Ballsy because they were killing people they didn't even know. Ballsy doesn't cover it. Cowardly is the right word.

You are, after all the space cadet who allege Bush is a murderer...based on the 6th Commandment in the Old Testament.

posted May 13, 2009 11:23 AM         

you however believe that only you have a pipeline to what is american. that is not, for your information, the american way. race religion or creed, i am entitled to my opinion just like you.

also for your information, even though i know you won't absorb it, the left is not particularly happy with the president you love to hate. while plenty of good conservatives are! fancy that...

what you seem to have missed is that we don't have a frontier anymore. it is no longer possible for the disinherited or dissatisfied to move west and carve out their own little territory. and the robber barons are still amongst us, they're just not building railroads anymore.

you appear to have no idea what the washington game has become or that we still have checks and balances written into the constitution. so you are panicking because someone from the other side of the tracks is in the hotseat. what will happen to your money? heavens to betsy, don't you know, can't you read, that many SO-CALLED european socialists have surpassed us in GDP? so even by your own measure they are doing pretty well.

the fact is they are not socialist countries, but they have social programs in place to keep the lower rungs from dragging everybody down. they also have free market capitalism going on. they also have some EXTREMELY wealthy people living in them.

and yes i know you are chuckling "there she goes again the little socialist-apologist" but IF you ever take your blinders off you will see that is not my point at all.

my point is there is and should be room for both of us in this country which has freedom of thought written into its ethic. i could say, stay in your little enclave where you belong, and leave the rest of us to sort out the mess that unregulated greed has created.

instead i leave you to it. as i said, carry on complaining. how boring to be spending the last umpteen years on here spouting your narrowminded agenda and condemning everyone who has the NERVE to challenge you or offer you the chance to say something positive, which you refuse over and over again.

posted May 13, 2009 12:27 PM         

quote:

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also for your information, even though i know you won't absorb it, the left is not particularly happy with the president you love to hate. "while plenty of good conservatives are!" fancy that...katatonic

---

Name those "conservatives" katatonic.

quote:

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that we still have checks and balances written into the constitution..katatonic

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Those checks and balances disappeared with the election of Marxist Socialist congressional members of the same party as the Marxist Socialist O'Bomber. O'Bomber is attempting to further erode those checks and balances by nominating Marxist Socialists to the federal courts...including the US Supreme Court. Now, we're dependent on the "good intentions" of those who have no good intentions.

Perhaps you haven't heard but there's a state's right movement afoot to rein in the power of the federal government. That's not going to help California though because O'Bomber just threatened California with denial of Porkulus money because the state legislature cut pay to state union workers as part of state deficit reductions. Over the line and no checks and balances in place. There goes the Article of the US Constitution "guaranteeing a republican form of government to every state".

quote:

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can't you read, that many SO-CALLED european socialists have surpassed us in GDP?..katatonic

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Name one European Socialist nation which has surpassed the United States in Gross Domestic Product. Just one will do.

Disagreeing with me is not treason but if you intend to disagree with me at the very least you should get your facts straight beforehand.

You are an apologist for total government, Socialist government and that comes through loud and clear. The grass is greener...over there...for you.

My NN is in clear thinking analytical Virgo katatonic. I don't need a conjuction with O'Bomber's Mars or anything else to tell me O'Bomber is a Marxist Socialist, always was and is a leaky suit of swamp gas, in over his head in a job he is totally unqualified to hold...and perhaps Constitutionally unqualified to hold as well.

posted May 13, 2009 01:42 PM         

“We spent a fortune to elect Barack Obama — $60.7 million to be exact — and we’re proud of it,” boasted Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union, to the Las Vegas Sun this week. The behemoth labor organization’s leadership is getting its money’s worth."

"Through a series of local chapter takeovers, corporate shakedowns, and bully campaigns to destroy the reputation of executives who refuse to submit to their will, Stern and his scandal-plagued lieutenants have consolidated low-skill service workers to create a 21st century labor empire. The ubiquitous Stern now enjoys a prominent seat at the table of every major policy discussion at the White House, including economic recovery and health care radicalization."

"Obama champions the SEIU’s top legislative priorities: expansive government health care (paid for with regressive sin taxes) and the Orwellian-titled “Employee Free Choice Act” to do away with private-ballot union elections in the workplace."

"Under Gaspard’s tenure at ACT, the get-out-the-vote group employed convicted felons as canvassers and committed campaign finance violations that led to a $775,000 fine by the Federal Election Commission – the third largest civil penalty levied in the panel’s history. Gaspard was appointed White House political director shortly after Election Day 2008."

"The payoffs keep coming. Last week, Obama slashed the Labor Department’s funding to investigate union corruption – a welcome move for Stern, who has seen three of his closest hand-picked deputies resign in 2008-2009 over financial scandals involving rampant cronyism, nepotism, and embezzlement."

"California officials also reported last week that the Obama White House gave the SEIU an unprecedented role in negotiations over federal stimulus funds. According to the Los Angeles Times, the union lobbied the feds to withhold nearly $7 billion in stimulus money from California unless it revoked a wage cut for unionized health care workers – which had already been approved by Democratic lawmakers as part of a budget deal forged in February. Top SEIU officials participated in a conference call last month on the issue; the Obama White House backs the union demands."

posted May 13, 2009 03:27 PM         

"Wealth alone does not bring the greatest degree of happiness. Norway has the highest GDP per capita on the list — $98,822 — yet it ranked ninth, not first. On the other hand, New Zealand's happiness level is 76.7 out of 100 on the OECD list, but its 2009 GDP per capita is just $30,556."

you sound like the phrase "stacked courts" was invented this year!

so there is your REPEAT naming of at least a couple of countries with higher GDP than ours. partly because they don't have many poor people! i wonder why?

like i said, i have more interesting things to do. so this is the last time.