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Author Topic:   Sarah Palin Says "BOO"...O'Bomber Folds
jwhop
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Posts: 624
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 17, 2009 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Yep, O'Bomber has folded like a cheap accordian...right after Sarah Palin said..."Death Panel".

I have to laugh that leftists believe they befuddle conservatives with their lying rhetoric and Saul Alinski tactics.

It never occurs to leftists that conservatives understand tactics quite well. The difference is that in general, conservatives would rather debate issues on their factual content using reason along with logical and rational arguments.

Reason, logic and rationality are hard to find on the left...so, Sarah Palin used an Alinski tactic on leftists who are attempting to force a Socialist health care system on Americans.

The screeching, howling, whining, thumb sucking and shrieking in unison can be heard all the way to the orbit of Mars.

Palin used one of their own tactics against them and she did it with only 2 words.

"Death Panel"

Pick the target
Freeze it
Personalize it
Polarize it

As a result, O'Bomber has now floated a trial balloon that a "Public Option", i.e., government run and funded nationalized Socialist health care doesn't have to be a part of a health care bill he will sign.

"The former Vermont governor {Dean} was asked on NBC's "Today" show about Obama's statement over the weekend that the public option for insurance coverage was "just a sliver" of the overall proposal. Obama's health and human services secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, advanced that line, telling CNN Sunday that a direct government role in a system intended to provide virtually universal coverage was "not the essential element."

Dean, a physician, argued that a public option is fair and said there must be such a choice in any genuine shake up of the existing system.

"You can't really do health reform without it," he said. Dean maintained that the health insurance industry has "put enormous pressure on patients and doctors" in recent years.

He called a direct government role "the entirety of health care reform. It isn't the entirety of insurance reform ... We shouldn't spend $60 billion a year subsidizing the insurance industry."

The shift in the administration's stance on a government-run insurance program leaves open a chance for compromise with Republicans that probably would enrage Obama's liberal supporters but could deliver a much-needed victory on a top domestic priority.

"I believe that the president has to make the evaluation as a matter of leadership as to what the administration wants to do. There is an alternative to the so-called public option by having co-ops. I think these matters are subject to exploration," Specter said."

Sebelius said the White House would be open to co-ops instead of a public option — a sign that Democrats want a compromise so they can declare a victory.

Under a proposal by Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., consumer-owned nonprofit cooperatives would sell insurance in competition with private industry, not unlike the way electric and agriculture co-ops operate, especially in rural states such as his own.

With $3 billion to $4 billion in initial support from the government, the co-ops would operate under a national structure with state affiliates, but independent of the government. They would be required to maintain the type of financial reserves that private companies are required to keep in case of unexpectedly high claims.

"I think there will be a competitor to private insurers," Sebelius said. "That's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing."

Obama's spokesman refused to say a public option was a make-or-break choice.

"What I am saying is the bottom line for this for the president is, what we have to have is choice and competition in the insurance market," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Sunday.

A day before, Obama appeared to hedge his bets.

"All I'm saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform," Obama said at a town hall meeting in Grand Junction, Colo. "This is just one sliver of it"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

No wonder leftists are scared to death of Sarah Palin.

With 2 words, she has the O'Bomber administration running for cover and top demoscats in the Senate declaring...
A Public Option is not a part of any bi-partisan Senate plan. There's not enough votes to pass such a bill in the Senate.

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AcousticGod
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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted August 17, 2009 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
The only "lying rhetoric" is calling end of life counseling a "death panel," and associating euthanasia with it. Straight up bullsh!t.

quote:
The difference is that in general, conservatives would rather debate issues on their factual content using reason along with logical and rational arguments.

I can't believe you'd even TRY to pull line. I can't remember the last time you said something factual or made a rational, practical argument.

quote:
Palin used one of their own tactics against them and she did it with only 2 words.

"Death Panel"


This is not a tactic of the Left. This is "flip flopper" all over again, but this time it has no teeth, and has been discreditted by every thinking person under the sun.

quote:
No wonder leftists are scared to death of Sarah Palin.

As I recall, most of the nation wouldn't put their trust in Palin.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 624
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 17, 2009 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
I'd call you the king of disinformation acoustic but I wouldn't want you to get a swelled head.

As I said on another thread...

The panel to decide what treatment, drugs, surgery etc was authorized and funded by the Porkulus bill and the implementation language is found in House O'BomberCare bills.

It's not going to pass in any of it's current forms but demoscats jobs may be beyond salvage just for dreaming up a system where the government could and would deny life saving treatment to seniors based on some ...utility to society construct.

Palin did exactly what I said she did. She stopped O'Bomber cold in his tracks using a leftist tactic against him and the death cult he's surrounded himself with in his administration.

Btw acoustic; Palin is a hell of a lot more intelligent than you are.

Another thing acoustic.

I also use leftist tactics against leftists. No one made me do it. I choose freely to use inflammatory language so leftists can actually understand what I'm saying. I believe in speaking the same language as those listening...or in this care..reading. The only difference is that I don't need to lie about leftists. There are so many targets of opportunity it's almost like shooting fish in a barrel. You can chalk it up to retribution for all the lying Bush bashing if you like.

Now acoustic, you need to face reality. Sarah Palin shut O'Bomber's "public option" down cold.

Until Palin said "Death Panel" all the demoscats and especially O'Bomber and his death cult were standing firm.

Now, they're running for cover.

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AcousticGod
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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted August 17, 2009 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Palin did no such thing, and that's why you had to start a new thread to try to spin a new false reality. You suffer from CAUSEfusion.

quote:
The panel to decide what treatment, drugs, surgery etc was authorized and funded by the Porkulus bill and the implementation language is found in House O'BomberCare bills.

The panel that can't and won't be deciding any patient's care? Is that the panel you refer to?

quote:
It's not going to pass in any of it's current forms but demoscats jobs may be beyond salvage just for dreaming up a system where the government could and would deny life saving treatment to seniors based on some ...utility to society construct.

There wasn't one in the works. It's a flat out falsehood. If you'd like to take the opportunity to attempt to prove otherwise, go for it. You can't succeed, though, because it's just a collective Conservative imagination.

quote:
She stopped O'Bomber cold in his tracks using a leftist tactic against him and the death cult he's surrounded himself with in his administration.

Where do you get this "leftist" tactic nonsense? "Death Panel" is the same strategy as the Right's use of "Flip flopper" on John Kerry, or "The One" with regard to Obama. It's a purely Rightist tactic to promulgate a label in place of real informed, intelligent discussion.

quote:
Btw acoustic; Palin is a hell of a lot more intelligent than you are.

That's hilarious. She's an idiot as is anyone who thinks she's bright, and that's putting it nicely.

Spare me the BS about your use of "leftist tactics". You can't debate properly, so you resort to distortion, bullying, and labelling. You act from weakness.

Obama taking the public option off the table is not a result of Palin. That's laughable. She was the foam, not the wave. No one jumped on the bangwagon when Palin came 'round restating Conservative arguments she'd heard/read elsewhere. Don't kid yourself.

Put her up in 2012. I'd love to watch the nation reject her twice.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 624
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 17, 2009 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Palin's IQ is at least 50 points higher than yours acoustic.

To show how intellectully deprived you really are...I point to your compliant I started another Palin thread.

You overlook the fact you did too and also the fact you did it first when there already was an open Palin thread here.

You're obsessed...like other leftists who are scared of Palin.

So far, the score between Palin and leftists, including leftists in the press..is Palin 100, leftists zip.

They threw everything they had at Palin and she's still kicking...and also speaking out.

Palin doesn't even have a platform or so much as a soapbox and she still stopped the public taxpayer funded portion of O'BomberCare like it hit a brick wall.

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katatonic
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posted August 17, 2009 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
you forgot a couple of things maestro. she lost the election. she's a sore loser. couldn't even stand the pressure of governor of alaska.

she is also associated with the secessionist movement in alaska. some candidate!

go back to your hot dreams and give it up.

if she's so bright why doesn't she publish her IQ scores? i know, cause she doesn't have any! what a riot!

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AcousticGod
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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted August 17, 2009 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Apparently you don't realize how well I score on I.Q. tests. You set it up, and I'll be there. And if you wouldn't mind maybe we could follow it up with a test regarding what she "knows" about the healthcare proposal. We'll have actual doctors administrate and videotape the tests just for fun.

quote:
To show how intellectully deprived you really are...I point to your compliant I started another Palin thread.

You overlook the fact you did too and also the fact you did it first when there already was an open Palin thread here.


Are you referring to Kat's "Sarah Palin Steps down" thread? Or your Sarah Palin thread on page 2? There was NO Sarah Palin thread regarding the healthcare debate before mine. As you've shown now, you can't seem to title a Palin thread with a reasonable understanding of cause and effect (a common problem for you for some time now), so it's good that someone as plain spoken as myself came along to share yet another instance of Palin's intellect failing spectacularly.

quote:
you forgot a couple of things maestro. she lost the election. she's a sore loser. couldn't even stand the pressure of governor of alaska.

Exactly.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 624
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 17, 2009 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Perhaps you've forgottn...or never knew but Palin wasn't the Republican standard bearer.

Perhaps you have Palin confused with McCain.

I doubt you score well on any test acoustic and especially not on any test where analysis of facts or knowledge is crucial.

Of course acoustic, I'm talking about the thread you started challenging Palin's intellect.

Here you are complaining about another Palin thread being started when you could have used the already open thread.

What you really wanted was the "headline".

And since when did you ever stick to the original topic of a thread in the first place? Try almost never.

Palin is always on message. Not only is Palin more intelligent than you but she's also tougher than you.

You would have wilted down into a little puddle of tears under the bombardment she withstood.

The fact leftists flip out hysterically over her every utterance only proves Palin has their number.

Hahaha Palin stopped O'Bomber's plan for government run and managed health care with only 2 words..."Death Panel". Now, that's effective speech.

Pick the target
Freeze it
Personalize it
Polarize it

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AcousticGod
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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted August 18, 2009 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
You crack me up with all this stuff.

I've never called either Palin nor McCain the Republican standard bearer. I hope McCain's too stubborn for such a thing, and Palin's clearly not smart enough.

I'm certain you'd be embarrassed going up against me in an I.Q. test, much less her.

You could have used the already opened thread as well. Therefore it's you who desperately needed the headline. Palin's already captured the headlines with virtually every credible source pointing out the flaws in her argument.

Since when did I stick to the original topic? Oh, you're not really going to try to walk down that road are you?

I wouldn't ever have to withstand what she's gone through. I'm not an idiot. I don't go looking for someone else to form an opinion that I can take and embarrass myself with. I don't have the facility to talk at length out my ass saying virtually nothing of substance while hitting on talking points. This is why she's been hammered since day one. Part of Tina Fey's impression of her on SNL was nearly verbatim. You and yours thought she had something. The rest of the nation laughed in horror.

The only hysteria Palin offers is fits of laughter as far as I know.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted August 18, 2009 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I've never called either Palin nor McCain the Republican standard bearer...acoustic

Do at least make an attempt to keep up acoustic.

That comment was for katatonic who alleges Palin is bitter over losing the election.
McCain lost the election and would have lost worse were it not for Sarah Palin.

"Death Panel"
Pick the target
Freeze it
Personalize it
Polarize it

And all the Socialists lying about O'BomberCare duck, bob and weave as they look for a rock to hide under.

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted August 18, 2009 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
And all the Socialists lying about O'BomberCare duck, bob and weave as they look for a rock to hide under.

The only people "lying" here are Conservatives. That's been proven time and time again, and will continue as long as this debate goes on.

Meanwhile I wait in anticipation of the day you're actually going to provide something relevent to this debate.

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katatonic
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posted August 18, 2009 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
well i can only speak from personal information but i know several people who were still thinking about it when palin was brought in and made up their minds the republicans had lost it!

as far as anyone folding, as usual you are jumping the gun. the only person who has folded is the former gov of alaska.

as far as her receiving excessive flak in the presidential race, from what i've seen that is something one has to expect and those who can't handle it are smart to step down. thus my respect for her decision.

plus if we're talking polls the ones i've seen show her popularity in alaska has had only one rally in a steady decline since she took office as governor - about when she took the VP nomination she seems to have won some approval, which has been sliding down ever since...

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted August 20, 2009 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
So, Sarah Palin...a woman who has no soapbox says BOO..."Death Panel" and O'Bomber, Senate demoscats, House demoscats and euthanasia proponents all over America wet themselves.

It's got to be the most effective use of Saul Alinski's radical tactics ever employed against Saul Alinski disciples.

Within days the entire section dealing with end of life issues disappears from Senate bills on health care.

Now, that's effective tactics and effective speaking. 2 words and poof, it's gone.

August 20, 2009
Palin v. ObamaCare
By J. R. Dunn

Once again we're presented with evidence that the health-care debate is occurring without adequate attention being paid to the record of established nationalized health-care systems overseas.

This has arisen as a result of Sarah Palin's superb maneuver in forcing the administration to drop Section 1233 of the ObamaCare act, entitled "Advance Care Planning Consultation." Section 1233, which we might as well call the "Let's Wrap it Up" clause, calls for "planning sessions" for Medicare clients in which the "continuum of end-of-life services and supports available" would be explained in detail. This "continuum" includes "palliative and hospice care", but is unlikely to be limited to that. Palin accused the administration of opening the door to euthanasia, with Section 1233 amounting to a first step toward "death panels" making life-and-death decisions amounting to such action.

Last week Section 1233 was dropped in toto. Palin forced this result through a single Facebook posting, a stroke that if carried out by anyone else but Lady Deerslayer would have been praised far and wide as masterful. But instead we got the usual attacks on Palin's personality, intelligence, and motives. In large part this involved such usual suspects as the mass media, Huffington Post-type blogs, and Obama himself. But center-right figures were also heard from, including (inevitably) David Frum. If Palin were to save the planet from alien invasion, Frum would have something kind to say for the invaders. But the editors of National Review were also critical in their customary indirect way:

"To conclude... that President Obama's favored legislation will lead to "death panels" deciding whose life has sufficient value to be saved - let alone that Obama desires this outcome - is to leap across a logical canyon."

In fact, it's no leap whatsoever, as would be apparent to anyone who has been paying serious attention, as opposed to media-level attention, to the problem of health care. The British National Health Service, the mother of all nationalized health systems, has had what amounts to a "death panel" system since 2005. Under the terms of the Mental Capacity Act, patients unable to communicate with hospital personnel are considered to be "due to die" and are removed from all forms of life support, including food and water. In other words, given the same treatment meted out to Terry Schiavo.

The most notorious recent case involving this act occurred last year when Mrs. Ellen Westwood, an 88-year-old retiree, entered Birmingham's Selly Oak hospital for shoulder surgery. While recovering she caught the inevitable iatrogenic "superbug" infection, a daily occurrence in British hospitals, and one which costs up to 30,000 lives a year. Without further ado, the Selly Oak doctors declared Mrs. Westwood "due to die" and began the process of shutting her down.

But the Westwood family refused to cooperate. After demanding that treatment be resumed, they were threatened with law enforcement action and effectively chased from the hospital. Returning with another doctor, they obtained a second opinion and had their mother released into their care. Once home, she recovered in short order and survives to this day.
How many times the Westwood story has been repeated remains unclear -- it's not, after all, something that the NHS would be willing to boast about. But it appears undeniable that "due to die" is standard procedure within the NHS system. Nor is it limited to older patients. There are several cases on record in which mentally disabled individuals have been left to die under the same circumstances: a girl whose easily-treated cancer was allowed to metastasize without treatment, a man whose broken leg festered to the point of infection and death, and a middle-aged man who was starved to death over the period of a month after suffering a stroke. That last individual's disability was Down syndrome, the same suffered by young Trig Palin.

"Such a system," to quote Governor Palin, "is downright evil." The connection between the Mental Capacity Act and Section 1233 are easily grasped. In this country today, a simple line exists. There are certain things you are not allowed to do. Once that terminus is erased, there is nothing to stop society from sliding into straightforward euthanasia, as has occurred in the UK. Forget any talk about "guidelines" or "safeguards"; they did not help Terry Schiavo, they did not help Ellen Westwood, they did not help the unnamed retarded man dying of starvation in his lonely bed. Quite simply, they are not meant to.

Why euthanasia is so critical to the progressive project is not so easy to grasp, but it is undeniable all the same. Consider the "Project on Death in America" established by George Soros. Funded in large part by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, this project was intended to promote palliative care as a method of dealing with end-of-life challenges, but somehow transformed itself into an exercise in promoting euthanasia in hospitals, hospices, and medical centers nationwide. (The Soros death project is covered in detail in my upcoming book Death by Liberalism. Be sure to order two copies -- one for yourself, and one for mom to read during that lengthy upcoming hospital stay.)

The impulse toward euthanasia is already active in American culture. Sarah Palin understands this, as Obama, Pelosi, Romney, and sadly, the editors of the National Review do not. Through the elimination of Section 1233, Palin has accomplished more for this country than any of those people ever have or are likely to do. This action will loom very large in the legend of Sarah Palin. From here on, Palin is no longer simply a politician; she's on her way to becoming a historical figure. We await her next actions with fascination.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/palin_v_obamacare.html

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katatonic
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posted August 20, 2009 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
seems some people don't know the difference between a battle and a war.

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AcousticGod
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posted August 20, 2009 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
But the editors of National Review were also critical in their customary indirect way:

"To conclude... that President Obama's favored legislation will lead to "death panels" deciding whose life has sufficient value to be saved - let alone that Obama desires this outcome - is to leap across a logical canyon."


I like the concise statement.

I think it's premature to believe that the Senate Finance Committee has full sway over what happens with this legislation. It wouldn't be surprising for end of life counseling to remain in the bill as it is a fairly standard item contained in private insurance policies, and isn't nearly as controversial as Palin supporters are attempting to make it.

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katatonic
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posted August 20, 2009 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
so let me understand this properly. you, jwhop, and your allies whoever they may be (apart from "governor" palin - why is she still being called that?) don't think that people should be covered by insurance OR the government for making plans to cover end of life decisions while they are still competent to do so? it should just be left to the rest of us to decide their fate?

OR you think we should all be kept on life support after brain death of indefinite duration? that will fill ALL the hospitals in no time flat! then what do we do with the living who need care?

do you have death on the brain for some reason? have you forgotten that it is the living who need care?

you call unhooking the braindead murder? is a person alive who has to have mechanical help to breathe, eat and defecate even though we don't have any way of reviving their brain?

the old lady who caught a nasty bug in hospital is not unique to britain. and had she had end-of-life counselling she could have said that she didn't want this sort of non-treatment in such a case.

i look forward to sarah palin's nation of zombies. good plan to get the vote, just keep a bunch of dead people on the rolls...

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katatonic
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posted August 20, 2009 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
!

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted August 20, 2009 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
You're being redundant katatonic.

Further katatonic, it's simple courtesy to call ex-government elected officials by their former titles.

For instance katatonic...Carter and Kommander Korruption are still called President. Ex-congressional members are still called congressmen and congresswomen, Ex-Senators are still called Senator. I thought everyone knew that.

One last thing katatonic, throwing out false imperatives doesn't cut any ice with me.

Now acoustic, factually...there's that pesky word which gives leftists heartburn...factually acoustic, the public option is dead in the Senate without the support of Senate members who oppose the public option..which is really the government option. Without their votes, there's no way to overcome a filibuster.

Get out your Malox acoustic. Factually, demoscats have numbers to pass O'Bomber's death cult bill without any Republican votes whatsoever.

More Malox acoustic. Factually, demoscats are scared to death of the consequences of passing a partisan bill without Republican support. The voters back home have made their position on O'BomberCare very well known.

Sarah Palin has been the most effective speaker on the subject of O'BomberCare.

O'Bomber himself has been a lying, bumbling, bungling, incompetent boob who doesn't even know what's in the various bills...and has had to admit he didn't.


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AcousticGod
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posted August 20, 2009 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Wait a second. You finally learn something "factual," and presume to counsel me? I'm sorry you had to read the news this morning, and realize that Dems may be preparing to go it on their own, but up until this post you considered the end of life counseling a dead issue because a single committee in the Senate won't back it. Factually, that was premature and presumptuous as was the idea that the "public option" was off the table when Obama mentioned that it was merely one part of what healthcare reform could look like.

"The voters back home," some of them, are participating in a healthcare conference with the President today on Twitter. One way or another this administration plans on keeping as much contact with the actual public as possible.

Palin has been the most effective politician in grabbing news coverage that outlines that she's lying and misrepresenting end of life counseling. It is sad and grossly pathetic that some would choose to see hers as a voice of reason. I suggest such a person schedule some end of life counseling, so that they can hear from a real doctor exactly what is "end of life counseling," how they're currently paid for it (through insurance), and the legality of euthanasia. Ought to be an eye opener.

I can't imagine that any President would keep abreast of the specifics of every thousand page bill that hasn't gotten out of the Senate yet.

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katatonic
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posted August 21, 2009 12:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
again the kettle calls the pot black! you're calling ME redundant? you are the prince of repeat my man.

and it is certainly NOT common courtesy OR usage to call FORMER president carter PRESIDENT. there is only one president, his name is obama. and there is only one governor of alaska and HIS name is NOT palin. of course if the secessionists gain enough ground it might be MR governor palin...but i doubt it!

the kernel here is SORE LOSERS. we had an election, and the republicans and the right LOST. they had their innings and the last 3 innings was more like a monarchy, funny thing how the name stayed the same for 12 of the last 20 years.

palin has no "soapbox"? well her little flirtation with big boy politics gave her newsworthy status as well as caricature status, and to give her credit she knows how to hang on!

and while she shares knowledge of basketball with the ACTUAL president, i don't think she knows how to play chess.

whatever. what will be will be. the constitution is set up so the same side won't always win...and your "socialist" bugbear, FDR, made certain of that when it looked like he was going to be elected king any minute. yep, the country really hated that one too!

there's always something to moan about and someone to do the moaning. otherwise there would be no cliche persona called "moaning minnie"...


not sure what false imperatives you're talking about? but i am sure that you know less about the bill than PRESIDENT obama. and by the way it IS common courtesy to use the title when talking about the man who DOES occupy the job.

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Node
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posted August 21, 2009 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message
"without the support of Senate members who oppose the public option..which is really the government option. Without their votes, there's no way to overcome a filibuster."

straight out of the playbook. And has no basis on fact.

Wingnut Grassley said "they" need 80.

when did 51 not become a majority? Ted has his rep in place, so 60 seats total. It will pass.

oh, and the PUBLIC majority wants the public option.

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NosiS
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posted August 21, 2009 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
ObamaCare's Contradictions
The President does both sides now on his health insurance plan.

Over the past week, President Obama has held three town-halls to make the case for his health-care plan. While he didn't say much that he hasn't said a thousand times before, his remarks did offer another explanation for the public's skepticism of ObamaCare. Namely, the President contradicts himself every other breath. Consider:

He likes to start off explaining our catastrophe of a health system. "What is truly scary—what is truly risky—is if we do nothing," he said in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. We can't "keep the system the way it is right now," he continued, while his critics are "people who want to keep things the way they are."

However, his supporters also want to keep things the way they are. "I keep on saying this but somehow folks aren't listening," Mr. Obama proclaimed in Grand Junction, Colorado. "If you like your health-care plan, you keep your health-care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health-care plan. If you like your doctor, you keep seeing your doctor. I don't want government bureaucrats meddling in your health care."

Mr. Obama couldn't be more opposed to "some government takeover," as he put it in Belgrade, Montana. In New Hampshire, he added that people were wrong to worry "that somehow some government bureaucrat out there will be saying, well, you can't have this test or you can't have this procedure because some bean-counter decides that this is not a good way to use our health-care dollars."

So no bureaucrats, no bean-counters. Mr. Obama merely wants to create "a panel of experts, health experts, doctors, who can provide guidelines to doctors and patients about what procedures work best in what situations, and find ways to reduce, for example, the number of tests that people take" (New Hampshire, again). Oh, and your health-care plan? You can keep it, as long your insurance company or employer can meet all the new regulations Mr. Obama favors. His choice of verbs, in Montana, provides a clue about what that will mean: "will be prohibited," "will no longer be able," "we'll require" . . .

Maybe you're starting to fret about all those bureaucrats and bean-counters again. You shouldn't, according to Mr. Obama. "The only thing I would point is, is that Medicare is a government program that works really well for our seniors," he noted in Colorado. After all, as he said in New Hampshire, "If we're able to get something right like Medicare, then there should be a little more confidence that maybe the government can have a role—not the dominant role, but a role—in making sure the people are treated fairly when it comes to insurance."

The government didn't get Medicare right, though: Just ask the President. The entitlement is "going broke" (Colorado) and "unsustainable" and "running out of money" (New Hampshire). And it's "in deep trouble if we don't do something, because as you said, money doesn't grow on trees" (Montana).

So the health-care status quo needs top-to-bottom reform, except for the parts that "you" happen to like. Government won't interfere with patients and their physicians, considering that the new panel of experts who will make decisions intended to reduce tests and treatments doesn't count as government. But Medicare shows that government involvement isn't so bad, aside from the fact that spending is out of control—and that program needs top-to-bottom reform too.

Voters aren't stupid. The true reason ObamaCare is in trouble isn't because "folks aren't listening," but because they are.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574360541357223298.html

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katatonic
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posted August 22, 2009 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
a good deal of the debt of medicare is down to fraud. as is a good deal of insurance profit down to refusing claims. how many billions do insurance CEOs need to make while people pay more and more for less and less coverage? something is wrong with this picture, isn't profit supposed to come AFTER costs?

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