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Author Topic:   Disney Subliminals?
PixieJane
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posted February 09, 2012 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone hear believe Disney is putting in subliminals in Disney? Because I'm curious to understand what the big deal is.

I'm convinced some of what's said to be hidden in Disney cartoons is there, but rather than seeing that as subliminal I instead see it as bored cartoonists playing a game among themselves, and having no effect on children whether or not they catch the word or scene. The ONLY hidden scene I thought MIGHT (conceivably, as opposed to likely) encourage tweens toward promiscuous behavior was a chat penis symbol hidden on iCarly (as the symbol passed as an address could actually be picked up by especially observant tween viewers, unlike hiding the word "SEX" in the animation for other animators to catch, and MIGHT promote such a symbol--and thus discussion--as less taboo among tween girls, though even this doesn't strike me as likely), though perhaps I should point out that iCarly is Nick (and also live action rather than animated, btw) rather than Disney, and Nick is well known to be more about entertaining kids without worrying about things like sexual purity (at least nowhere as much as Disney claims to be, despite all the crap Disney does manage to get past the radar).

But let's say the hidden messages are there. I was just one of many kids raised on Disney movies and we caught so many of those critiqued today as having erotic subliminals when they played at the cinema before Disney presumably cleaned them up for dvd, and some of those movies (like The Little Mermaid) we saw over and over again. Just how would I have supposedly been different if the hidden erotica and/or subliminals were not present?

And has anyone ever claimed Disney ran subliminals other than erotic ones? For example, subliminals to buy Disney merch or go to Disneyland, as it would seem they'd do if they were going to go to the trouble of manipulating people.

For that matter, whenever an animator sneaks in the word "SEX" (for real, presumably as a game amongst themselves, not just because someone sees something that isn't there which is the case more often than not) why must one assume it would have an erotic meaning when it can--especially to a child--by a synonym for "GENDER"? (I suppose I could see a feminist critique of endorsing gender roles but that's about it...and seems to me like there would be bigger fish to fry like the open messages rather than the hidden ones.)

Finally, why are so many people more concerned about this rather than the messages that aren't subliminal? For example, the Little Mermaid (which was one of my favorites as a child that I saw at the cinema several times and I'll still watch it today) has a spoiled little princess who is perfectly willing to upset her loving family and shrug off her minimal obligations because there are more fun (and irresponsible) things to do, defies parental warnings (which is shown as a GOOD thing), is arguably a stalker who places a guy she doesn't even know as the most important thing in her world (indeed, it takes her about 5 seconds to decide never seeing her family again is worth it if she can have a CHANCE at being with a guy she doesn't even know), knowingly puts herself in extreme danger out of her obsession, and promotes the lesson that looking pretty is what counts (and the rest will follow eventually), even to the point that she's willing to give up her voice and her say to get her crush, and the happy ending is becoming a teen wife without any real existence beyond her man (and presumably soon to be teen mom as well). Yet strangely I've heard almost nothing about these elements beyond a few academic feminists most people ignore to people on the net trying to tick people off by messing with their childhood who are typically dismissed as trolls, yet instead it seems many more are upset over supposed subliminal sex scenes (many of them not really there).

And I don't understand the focus on supposed erotic subliminals that kids aren't even going to catch rather than the explicit messages inherent within the story itself. And if it creates "subliminal control" then how does this manifest? For example, say the scene in The Little Mermaid of the horny minister was true (which it wasn't) then is it believed the kids are then going to subconsciously seek to have sex with ministers, or is it something more subtle like believing Disney is trying to get kids to think marriages will screw them over (and if so, why would Disney threaten their own livelihood in the long run as they'd be doing)?

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Mblake81
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posted February 09, 2012 04:35 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Edit, relevance.

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ariesdragon
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posted February 09, 2012 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ariesdragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mblake81:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP9tNry8KBM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpRpodxVhDk

[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=dhsymQgun6A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhsymQgun6A[/URL]

Lord Oberon of Avalon was an interesting character as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVX_XKsud3g


I can't see anything *scratching head* maybe someone can say what they see...

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Mblake81
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posted February 09, 2012 04:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not all things subliminal are about sex.

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Chahldean
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posted February 09, 2012 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chahldean     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have always noticed Disney Films as having the main character from a broken home of some sort...
Always missing one or both parents and dealing with a long lost yearning for love and emotional security.
Also, mostly all the "bad guys" have accents and mustaches or facial hair...covering their true identity?

Today's Disney films are more polished using animated characters and chem trails in the sky?

Children should view cartoons as fantastical animations, but somehow they have become so personified, we relate to them as Human.

I always thought it was a hint of what was/is to come.

Now, with Disney owning Marvel Comics, all the allegories and classic mythology is used at their financial benefit with a new Super Hero character aalways fighting off the evils in the World.

So much for a Child to think about.
It's a Wonder adulthood doesn't begin at 7.

Fear, in my opinion, shouldn't be a premise for any Children's viewing....but then again I do not own a tv.

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Gnosis ThySelf

Knowledge bows to Spirit

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PixieJane
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posted February 10, 2012 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mblake81:
Disney show I remember

I never was a fan of Gargoyles, but that was a pretty good ep. And the vocabulary was very impressive, if I had a kid who loved that show I'd be using that to encourage his word power.

Still, it's not like it's that unusual, is it? There was a live action show for kids where a woman turns into Isis (and another guy who turns into Thor) plus a guy who was gifted by multiple gods (plus "the wisdom of Solomon") but I can't recall his name. And given the popularity of Harry Potter it's obvious that kids can handle cartoons like Gargoyles, love them, and even understand them (as they're meant to be as opposed as from the perspective of a specific occult tradition).

Anyway, there are a handful of Disney shows I've enjoyed, and my all time favorite is Kim Possible (a brilliant parody on the spy and superhero genre as well as of pop culture in general). And here's an ep where KP & friends have to deal with a sitch similar to those gargoyles as a...well far be it for me to spoil it, so I'll just say as someone becomes the avatar of Anubis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMV9XxyYfk8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6020V8pRAnQ

ETA: a popular comment left there: "This guy should've seen Gargoyles; he would've learned that bonding yourself with an ancient Egyptian lord of the Dead is NEVER a good idea!"

Anyway, on to the final chapter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-lzzF12W2I

There are many other eps that feature ancient magic, though for some odd reason it's almost always about monkeys (occasionally gorillas).

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Mblake81
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posted February 10, 2012 09:11 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Edit, relevance.

Do not want to "clutter" up someones thread.

All due apologies.

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NickiG
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posted February 10, 2012 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ariel was 16 when she fell in love with and married Prince Eric...not to mention she had a kid soon afterwards...subliminal? i think so

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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NickiG
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posted February 10, 2012 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
also, Snow White's behavior was very "traditional house wife"-y...again, i say that is a subliminal message to all young girls

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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PixieJane
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posted February 10, 2012 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NickiG:
also, Snow White's behavior was very "traditional house wife"-y...again, i say that is a subliminal message to all young girls


quote:
Originally posted by NickiG:
Ariel was 16 when she fell in love with and married Prince Eric...not to mention she had a kid soon afterwards...subliminal? i think so


These are EXPLICIT messages that are fully and clearly expressed and demonstrated, not subliminal. Subliminal means it's not obvious, it's hidden and presumably it affects the mind because one can't consciously combat the message (though studies show subliminals aren't anywhere as effective as they're thought to be save in limited ways).

For example, say Ariel and Prince Eric never married, BUT there was images that flashed too quickly to be picked up of them married (perhaps in a small painting in the background that was only shown for a second). THEN it would be subliminal. However, as it's part of the story rather than hidden within it the message is explicit rather than subliminal.

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NickiG
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posted February 10, 2012 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
These are EXPLICIT messages that are fully and clearly expressed and demonstrated, not subliminal. Subliminal means it's not obvious, it's hidden and presumably it affects the mind because one can't consciously combat the message (though studies show subliminals aren't anywhere as effective as they're thought to be save in limited ways).

For example, say Ariel and Prince Eric never married, BUT there was images that flashed too quickly to be picked up of them married (perhaps in a small painting in the background that was only shown for a second). THEN it would be subliminal. However, as it's part of the story rather than hidden within it the message is explicit rather than subliminal.


its explicit to us, now that we're grown

but i can tell you when i was a kid, i wasnt paying attention to those kinds of details, so i'd say to children watching those movies, it would be subliminal

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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PixieJane
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posted February 10, 2012 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Then all of real life is subliminal as well. And I'm not just talking of dolls or playing house but everything.

In any case, most people who talk about subliminal messages in Disney mean it as I define it, not as you define it.

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NickiG
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posted February 10, 2012 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i know what subliminal is, i'm not saying that the definition you gave is wrong

but think about when you were a kid watching those movies...did you think about the fact ariel was 16? was the first thing that came to mind was "shes 16, she shouldnt know what love is" like an adult would?

and i didnt define subliminal in any of my posts, btw

i'm stating my opinion of how CHILDREN think of these movies as they watch them...and i think some of the messages they show with these women in the movies are subliminal to young girls...too young to pay attention to those details...like say 4 or 5

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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PixieJane
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posted February 10, 2012 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah, yes, I mentioned that in the original post. I suppose I can see why many who care about the supposed sexual subliminals don't care about the explicit message that a woman exists to marry a man and bear his children as that's a message many who promote "sexual purity" also support (I suspect the reason the fundies haven't gone after Twilight as they did Harry Potter is because they approve of Bella's submission and abstinence before marriage).

But, again, why not care more about--or even care at all--about how the film promotes irresponsibility and back talking one's father and ignoring parental warnings (with the behavior rewarded)?

When they rarely do go after an explicit message rather than a subliminal one it's usually going after some kind of witchcraft or similar magic used by anyone other than a villain.

And I'd still like a REASON or MOTIVE they ascribe to Disney for putting in erotic subliminals, which I don't think I've ever seen them give unless it was to say Disney is owned by Satan (who apparently can't think of anything better to do, which I should find comforting given that even in a mere minute I can think of how to be more evil and insidious than the would-be Prince of Darkness as that means I have little to fear from such a demon).

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Mblake81
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posted February 10, 2012 08:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Edit.

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NickiG
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posted February 10, 2012 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Ah, yes, I mentioned that in the original post. I suppose I can see why many who care about the supposed sexual subliminals don't care about the explicit message that a woman exists to marry a man and bear his children as that's a message many who promote "sexual purity" also support (I suspect the reason the fundies haven't gone after Twilight as they did Harry Potter is because they approve of Bella's submission and abstinence before marriage).

But, again, why not care more about--or even care at all--about how the film promotes irresponsibility and back talking one's father and ignoring parental warnings (with the behavior rewarded)?

When they rarely do go after an explicit message rather than a subliminal one it's usually going after some kind of witchcraft or similar magic used by anyone other than a villain.

And I'd still like a REASON or MOTIVE they ascribe to Disney for putting in erotic subliminals, which I don't think I've ever seen them give unless it was to say Disney is owned by Satan (who apparently can't think of anything better to do, which I should find comforting given that even in a mere minute I can think of how to be more evil and insidious than the would-be Prince of Darkness as that means I have little to fear from such a demon).


(was beginning to think this was directed at me....then i looked down at Mblakes reply....then looked up at his other reply) ooooh, cuz i would have been like "i didnt say anything about that" because i surely didnt come here to pick a fight about disney, just trying to state my opinion about how it looks to the children watching disney

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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PixieJane
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posted February 10, 2012 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NickiG:
(was beginning to think this was directed at me....then i looked down at Mblakes reply....then looked up at his other reply) ooooh, cuz i would have been like "i didnt say anything about that" because i surely didnt come here to pick a fight about disney, just trying to state my opinion about how it looks to the children watching disney


And that's fine, though a little confusing since it's not really an answer or insight to my question (at least not that I can see) but another topic instead.

Btw, I grew up on Disney and remember well how it looked to me.

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LEXX
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posted February 10, 2012 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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PixieJane
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posted February 11, 2012 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mblake81:
If that made any sense to you, I am glad.

-starting to wonder if my long posts scare people off


I read your post but I'm unsure on how relevant it was to what I asked. While I don't doubt the existence of multiple groups and "invisible colleges" that are trying to enlighten humanity or prep us for special destinies, it sounds to me like you see Disney (and JK Rowling, author of Harry Potter) as promoting (consciously or unconsciously) an occult message on behalf of a secret society in order to advance an occult agenda (with heavy political ramifications). As intriguing as this is, I don't see any reason to believe your perspective is shared by JK Rowling or Disney CEOs. That is to say, I don't see any indoctrination or teaching taking place because the audience isn't given the specialized context you have in order to make those same connections you do, nor is there any attempted follow up to lead them into such connections or to "educate them on the real thing" (even the Harry Potter guides explain the legends as trivia from a sociologist and folklorist position rather than explaining or promoting an occult philosophy). What I see are writers trying to entertain to sell books, movies, advertising space, merchandise, and even concerts (IOW, to make money).

I'd have also found it more relevant if you mentioned a group explaining occult subliminals in Disney or Harry Potter with concern (which I've never heard of save as entirely secondary to the erotic subliminals, popular urban legends of Harry Potter promoting Satanism aside) rather than your personal interpretation (interesting, yes, but only peripherally related to the topic at hand).

Btw, I spent a couple of years practicing witchcraft and exploring the Western Mystery Tradition, and I used to be friends with a witch who once had a website up that detailed the occult and historical basis of Harry Potter (though she didn't think Rowling was any kind of adept, just someone who gleaned a lot through impressive research to tell an engaging story, and she wasn't even aware of previous fictional works that Rowling probably took a lot of her inspiration from), so I'm familiar with the things you brought up. The kids who are entertained by Harry Potter, however, do not, and if anything their learning an occult tradition is going to be harder with all the silly concepts they got along with a few actual names and adapted legends. (And Disney is even more ridiculous.)

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RegardesPlatero
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posted February 11, 2012 05:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RegardesPlatero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I personally don't believe in stuff like this.

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RegardesPlatero
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posted February 11, 2012 05:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RegardesPlatero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LEXX:

HAHA I love that!

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Mblake81
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posted February 11, 2012 07:14 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have a nice day.

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