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Author Topic:   Tricksters, Chaos & Change
Nadja
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posted September 28, 2019 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Loki came up recently, when I did my Nordic themed asteroids list. I was just reading up on him and what he might represent. Chaos, change, upheaval, mischief, ambiguity, lies, deceit, shape shifting, volatility, monstrosity, taboo... A power that can either be seen as evil and destructive, or as a a cure for entropy. Loki's name means fire, and I find that very suitable. A fire can be nurturing, but it's not to be trusted. Handled with care fire aids positive change, mishandled it can spark a flaming inferno from which nothing caught up in it can escape unscathed. And yet, even the most devastating eruption brings new lush growth.

Loki and other powers like him are liminal personae, or like the liminal phase of a rite of passage. They are separate from ordered society, they do things that are taboo, they dare to be ambiguous, they shift shape at will and will not conform to norms.

I like that!

Theme song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U16Xg_rQZkA

So, all that said... give me your best trickster archetype asteroids! And do tell if they make a splash in your chart or not!

Just off the top of my head I can think of these:

19521 Chaos
136199 Eris
16248 Fox
2103 Laverna
4862 Loke
217628 Lugh

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Lerena
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posted September 28, 2019 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my natal chart:
- I have Eris in Aries in 5th house.
- I have Chaos in Taurus in 6th house.
- I have Laverna in Taurus in 6th house.
- I have Fox in Cancer in 8th house.
- I have Lugh in Aquarius in 3rd house.
- I have Loke in Pisces in 4th house.

I don't know anything about Laverna, but this asteroid could be within orb for a conjunction to my Taurus Sun. It's within a 2-degree orb.

For me, Chaos is the most relevant asteroid in the list. It says everything really. My day-to-day life is constant chaos and my work is chaos too, because I'm a writer and you can't have a story without conflict. In fact, no matter what medium is used for someone's creativity, The creative process is often messy and disorganized.

Uranus and Neptune both aspect Chaos in my chart. Neptune is an exact trine to the degree and minute, and, with Uranus transiting my 6th house, this means a bigger dose of chaos compared to the usual. This means I'll experience Uranus being conjunct the asteroid Chaos within the next several years. Chaos is also in minor aspect to my North Node.

I think "chaos" is the best way to sum up my entire life. Did I say the word "chaos" enough times in this post?

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MoonMystic
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posted September 29, 2019 12:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonMystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Nadja
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posted September 29, 2019 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh certainly MoonMystic, I think my dominant Mercury is the reason why tricksters appeal to me so much! (I have Gemini Sun, Virgo Moon, Mercury on the Midheaven...)

Which reminds me of another trickster asteroid:
69230 Hermes

Oh, and 1809 Prometheus too!

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mirage29
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posted September 29, 2019 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.. !! hahaaa. Theme song.. Love it.

19521,136199,16248,2103,4862,217628, 7420, 69230,1809

later!... *grin*

Lerena.. Laverna
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laverna
"In Roman mythology, Laverna was a goddess of thieves, cheats and the underworld. She was propitiated by libations poured with the left hand. The poet Horace and the playwright Plautus call her a goddess of thieves."

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MoonMystic
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posted September 29, 2019 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonMystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
- removed -
As it wasn't an accurate meaning.

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mirage29
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posted September 29, 2019 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MoonMystic:
… it seems Pholus is as well linked with Trickster capabilities

~ http://cosmicintelligenceagency.com/5dastrology-8-2-2/ ~


I looked at that, and read some other articles. I can't 'see' where you think Pholus specifically was a trickster, by mythological accounts?

ADD .. I 'know' that you were correctly relating what the author of the article was saying!!!

I checked it out by reading other Pholus articles, and, what that person said doesn't reflect what I've read of him.

{{MoonMystic }}

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Nadja
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posted September 29, 2019 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All the asteroids mentioned so far make some sort of connections in my chart. No tight planet conjunctions, but lots of trines, sextiles, and an uncommon amount of quintiles.

Chaos 12°21' Taurus 8th
- Biquintile Ascendant as well as Saturn. Thus apex of a quintile yod.
- Also quintile Prometheus.
- More widely trine Moon and sextile Midheaven (2 degrees).

Eris 16°45' Aries 7th
- Conjunct Vertex.
- Biquintile Moon.
- Trine Saturn.
- Square Hermes and sextile Fox.
- Contraparallel Moon.

Fox 17°03' Aquarius 5th
- Biquintile Midheaven.
- Sextile Saturn and Eris.

Hermes 16°08' Capricorn 4th
- Sextile Pallas, biquintile Vesta, square Eris.

Laverna 21°41' Gemini 9th
- Conjunct Chiron.
- Sextile Jupiter.
- Quintile North Node, biquintile Pallas.

Loke 5°01' Aries 6th
- Conjunct Descendant.

Lugh 9°29' Aquarius 5th
- Air grand trine with Vesta and SN.
- Inconjunct Moon as well as Mars/Midheaven. Thus apex of a yod.
- Sextile NN, quintile Jupiter.

Prometheus 23°40' Cancer 10th
- Biquintile Saturn and quintile Chaos.
- Closely parallel Sun.
- Widely conjunct Lilith (2 degrees).

All them quintiles!! I suppose I'm gifted when it comes to trickery.

Edit:

Pholus 23°16' Taurus 8th
- Conjunct Venus.
- Sextile Prometheus.
- Parallel Ascendant.

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Nadja
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From: Finland
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posted September 29, 2019 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do think that Pholus can have a catalytic or transformative effect. I don't really see Pholus as trickster archetype, but a somewhat related type energy at least. I've found this article useful in understanding Pholus (and other centaurs): http://www.lunarplanner.com/~lunarpla/asteroids-centaurs/index.html

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MoonMystic
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posted September 29, 2019 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonMystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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mirage29
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posted September 29, 2019 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
-- deleted material --
to bring responses more in-line with intention

_____________________________
MoonMystic {{{{ }}}} ..
{You are a Blessing!! *hug*}

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mirage29
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posted September 30, 2019 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
removed educative materials and links on various groups of 'types' of asteroids --
duh.. I was being too serious?
*ahem*
Class is over!

Back to tricksters theme-party!

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Nadja
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From: Finland
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posted September 30, 2019 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Found this about tricksters on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_tricksters

"Hynes and Doty, in Mythical Trickster Figures (1997) state that every trickster has several of the following six traits:[1]

1. fundamentally ambiguous and anomalous
2. deceiver and trick-player
3. shape-shifter or master of disguise
4. situation-inverter
5. messenger and imitator of the gods
6. sacred and lewd bricoleur"

And here is more detail, from this link http://apocalypticmediations.com/documents/trickster.htm , for those who don't mind reading a bit more text.

"In his survey of the literature Hynes (1993) identifies six characteristics that he claims offer a “helpful map, heuristic guide and common template through which to become better aware of the complexities of specific trickster figures within particular belief systems”. (Hynes 1993:45)

1. The trickster is ambiguous and anomalous

Anomolous, a-nomos, without normativity, the trickster appears on the edge or just beyond existing borders, classifications, and categories…the trickster is cast as an “out” person, and his activities are often outlawlish, outlandish, outrageous, out-of-bounds, and out-of-order. No borders are sacrosanct, be they religious, cultural, linguistic, epistemological, or metaphysical. (Hynes 1993:34)

2. The trickster is a deceiver and trick-player

His, lying, cheating, tricking, and deceiving may derive from the trickster being simply an unconscious numbskull, or, at other times, from being a malicious spoiler. Once initiated, a trick can exhibit an internal motion all its own. Thus, a trick can gather such momentum as to exceed any control exercised by its originator and may even turn back upon the head of the trickster. (Hynes 1993:35)

3. The trickster is a shape-shifter

As shape-shifter, the trickster can alter his shape or bodily appearance in order to facilitate deception. Not even the boundaries of species or sexuality are safe, for they can be readily dissolved by the trickster’s disguises and transmorphisms. Relatively minor shape-shifting may involve nothing more than changing clothes. (Hynes 1993:36)

4. The trickster is a situation invertor

The trickster often turns a place of safety into a place of danger and back again. He can turn a bad situation into a good one, and then back into a bad one…the trickster is often the official ritual profaner of beliefs. Profaning or inverting social beliefs brings into sharp relief just how much a society values these beliefs. (Hynes 1993:37)

5. The trickster is a messenger and imitator of the gods

The trickster quite regularly brings gifts essential to human culture usually by braking a central taboo established in the divine order…within this process, the trickster often seems to operate within a perpetual bubble of immunity that protects him from the full weight of retribution…He has the further dubious distinction of having introduced that most ambiguous of cultural gifts – debt. (Hynes 1993:40-1)

6. The trickster is a sacred and lewd bricoleur

The bricoleur is a tinker or fix-it person, noted for his ingenuity in transforming anything at hand in order to form a creative solution. The trickster manifests a distinctive transformative ability: he can find the lewd in the scared and the sacred in the lewd, and new life from both…the trickster traffics frequently with the transcendent while loosing lewd acts upon the world. Gastronomic, flatulent, sexual, phallic and fecal feats erupt seriatim. Yet the bricoleur aspect of the trickster can cause any or all of such lewd acts or objects to be transformed into occasions of insight, vitality, and new inventive creations. (Hynes 1993:42)"

The last point on the list makes me want to add 22830 Tinker to the list. I have it on my ascendant!

And lets add these characteristics too:

26955 Lie
57509 Sly
8690 Swindle

The Wikipedia article also lists a lot of trickster characters, fictional and mythological alike. So here are a few more trickster asteroids:

3671 Dionysus
55749 Eulenspiegel
1143 Odysseus
4450 Pan
1773 Rumpelstilz
1866 Sisyphus
10604 Susanoo

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mirage29
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posted September 30, 2019 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting reading, Nadja.

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cthonicstar
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posted October 02, 2019 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cthonicstar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have 69230 Hermes, Ceres, and Uranus in tight conjunction...not sure what to make of this discovery, lol! Except maybe pity Ceres?

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Ami Anne
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posted October 02, 2019 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nadja:
I do think that Pholus can have a catalytic or transformative effect. I don't really see Pholus as trickster archetype, but a somewhat related type energy at least. I've found this article useful in understanding Pholus (and other centaurs): http://www.lunarplanner.com/~lunarpla/asteroids-centaurs/index.html


Pholus is not a trickster. He explodes what he touches in natal and synastry

------------------
Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Nadja
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posted October 02, 2019 12:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

Pholus is not a trickster. He explodes what he touches in natal and synastry



Yes, exactly my point. Explosive, catalytic, affecting radical change... but not really a trickster otherwise.

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MoonMystic
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posted October 06, 2019 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonMystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Randall
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posted October 07, 2019 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks!

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