Lindaland
  Aquarius Rising
  Could Voluntary Sterilization or Alternatives Help The Planet? (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Could Voluntary Sterilization or Alternatives Help The Planet?
NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 12, 2011 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've always been interested in this topic, especially in relation to global awareness and environmental ethics. I'm mean truthfully how are future generations going to handle this growing problem of overpopulation. It's has become a huge environmental issue, sustainability for the future seems unlikely, world consumption is at an all time high. I recently read an article about women and men voluntarily having procedures to make them sterile in order to benefit the planet. Sounds like madness but it definitely seems like an Age of Aquarius practice. Many of the people in this article were vegetarians and environmental and humanitarian activists.

As far as overpopulation goes for me as an activist, I'm more concerned with the drastic environmental effects that are resulting from overpopulation. From world consumption to environmental exploitation in favor of supporting the human race. The basis of environment ethics philosophies consider extending the traditional boundaries of ethics from solely including humans to including the non human world. There are many ethical decisions that human beings make with respect to the environment. What environmental obligations do we need to keep for future generations and is justified or even ethical for humans to knowingly cause the extinction of a species for the convenience of humanity?

Humans are the ones who make the rules in the debate between human rights and animal and environmental rights. The ethical question concerned with this fact is if humans don't value animals and nature how will we go about in our treatment of them. Opinions? Does voluntary sterilization seem like a theme of the coming Age of Aquarius? What are your positions on re-shaping your life to benefit the environment and future generations? 50 years ago the conventional model was to get married and have children and move to the suburbs and consume like crazy to stimulate the economy. But times have changed some estimates predict the world to be devoid of many natural resources necessary to sustain human and animal life within half a century.
http://articles.cnn.com/2007-09-25/tech /overpopulation.overview_1_world-population-population-institute-population-estimates?_s=PM:TECH
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090418075752.htm

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 15148
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 13, 2011 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The other side of the argument states that there is no overpopulation and that the Earth can comfortably sustain ten times the present human population. They say the problem is in misallocation of resources. The truth is probably somewhere in between the two extremes.

------------------
"The stars which shone over Babylon and the stable in Bethlehem still shine as brightly over the Empire State Building and your front yard today. They perform their cycles with the same mathematical precision, and they will continue to affect each thing on earth, including man, as long as the earth exists." Linda Goodman

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 13, 2011 12:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
The other side of the argument states that there is no overpopulation and that the Earth can comfortably sustain ten times the present human population. They say the problem is in misallocation of resources. The truth is probably somewhere in between the two extremes.


True but the other argument doesn't hold weight. It's an excuse to continue to exploit the environment. The problem is unethical treatment of animals and nature in favor of humanity. We share this planet, humans gave themselves authority to control resources, nature, and the state of our planet.

In favor of the argument of overpopulation we are aware of possible geological occurrences such as Global Warming being expedited by human consumption and exploitation of natural resources and the greater environment. Instead of assuming the planet will sustain itself, why not attempt to mediate the situation, be ethical, considerate and environmentally conscientious. It's the basic philosophies of environmentalism. We aren't on this planet alone, how selfish of us to exploit it in our own favor.

(Thank you for your input though Randall )

IP: Logged

juniperb
Moderator

Posts: 3203
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 13, 2011 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm, I believe all who desire voluntary sterilization or any alternatives have already done so or will do so .
The key being "voluntary" here
Now mandatory is a horse of a different color.

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 13, 2011 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
The key being "voluntary" here
Now mandatory is a horse of a different color.


Agreed

Free will, everyone must have a choice to do as they please.

What do you think of the concept or choosing to do something that could reduce your carbon foot print? Voluntary sterilization is a bit extreme. Like I stated in my OP I'm not trying to tamper with nature or reverse it.

IP: Logged

PixieJane
Knowflake

Posts: 210
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted November 13, 2011 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think anything will change until forced to by cataclysm (which may take care of the problem itself). People who can think that far ahead and adapt are too few in number.

One thing I'd like to see is an end to the notion that breeding is obligatory. There are people opposed to any birth control for this reason (even if it means people will die or have babies at age 14 they want to bar it) and I've been told that I'm obligated to bear children for America, for whites, for Christians or Heathens (Nordic/Germanic paganism), and other reasons before our "enemies" outbreed us. This last summer (at age 28) I was given a hard time by my family for not being a wife and mother yet. There is even the insane notion all too many people have that believe because a small minority of people are gay that human extinction is a danger because we can die out by not breeding enough (which is insane even if you falsely assume that gays never conceive children).

But I see some modern countries have mostly shed this unpleasant worldview so I'm hopeful that the rest of the world will eventually follow suit (though I fear it will be too little, too late).

IP: Logged

anongrl10
Knowflake

Posts: 3871
From:
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 14, 2011 06:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anongrl10     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, it's a political issue, that is, the interpretation of the stats will adjust to whoever is speaking... I think deaths from epidemics will and have taken care of this issue. I do believe in a self-organizing nature although it's nice if we could prevent such radical solutions...

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 15148
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 15, 2011 10:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting.

------------------
"The stars which shone over Babylon and the stable in Bethlehem still shine as brightly over the Empire State Building and your front yard today. They perform their cycles with the same mathematical precision, and they will continue to affect each thing on earth, including man, as long as the earth exists." Linda Goodman

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 17, 2011 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

IP: Logged

juniperb
Moderator

Posts: 3203
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 04, 2011 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
What do you think of the concept or choosing to do something that could reduce your carbon foot print?

I`m "assuming" you are using the "your" to mean me personally, yes?

I`m an old hippy and learned early on about being green

I do as much as possable to reduce my footprint... including voluntary sterilization after birthing 2 wonderful children .

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 05, 2011 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, that's incredible thanks for sharing Juniperb. Are you an Aquarius? Just wondering, I'm an Aquarius Rising, I feel like I can always spot an Aquarian or at the least an Air sign.

I'm in my 20s and I don't plan on having children. It's a personal decision and the topic of sterilization has always fascinated me. It's definitely something I'd consider.

IP: Logged

juniperb
Moderator

Posts: 3203
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 05, 2011 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed an Aquarius with 6 Air placements

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 06, 2011 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very cool Juniperb. I'm a Libra Sun, Aquarius Rising and I'm all Air and Fire. It's always nice to meet a fellow "airhead" ... We can't help but get our heads caught up in the clouds.

IP: Logged

starfox
Moderator

Posts: 817
From: London England
Registered: Aug 2010

posted December 07, 2011 06:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starfox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
The other side of the argument states that there is no overpopulation and that the Earth can comfortably sustain ten times the present human population. They say the problem is in misallocation of resources. The truth is probably somewhere in between the two extremes.


I agree, I think there is enough for everyone, but the way we run it now is so badly skewed in the favour of the greedy disgusting ones.

These people who wish to sit on their own hill made of gold, I think your time is soon over with & permanently!

IP: Logged

RegardesPlatero
Knowflake

Posts: 1484
From: Storybrooke
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 08, 2011 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RegardesPlatero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I feel that EVERYONE over the age of 18 who wants to be sterilized should be able to do this without a big hassle or huge expense. Choosing not to parent and making this decision permanent shouldn't be controversial at all.

To be very honest, and I don't mean to be hateful, but I take *considerable* exception to the idea that *voluntary* sterilization is "madness". What's madness to me is being forced or pressured into having children that you don't want or can't care for properly, and being forced to deal with constant anxiety about fertility. I feel anxious every single day from not being sterilized. I'm celibate by choice, and I do not take birth control because it causes weight gain, blood clot, stroke, and heart attack. I'm terrified of being raped and not having access to emergency contraception and then having to shell out tons of money that I don't have for an abortion. I pray every single day that I am not raped and it scares the living hell out of me.

Also, I have to point out: if you consider voluntary sterilization to be 'unnatural' and 'against nature' or 'reversing' it, how do you justify birth control, which does the same thing, only temporarily instead of permanently? (Again, not trying to be rude, just genuinely curious).

It makes me really mad that young children are allowed to have children, but I, an adult woman in her 20s who does not have or ever want kids, has to wait probably 10-15 years to be sterilized even though I am 100% sure about this choice--and that's if I'm lucky. If I were a man, I'd have a lot less hassle and could just go get a vasectomy, but because I'm a woman, people automatically make certain assumptions and it angers me. I should be able to just go do it like a man could, after proper documentation of course.

I hate it that people just *assume* that a woman wants to have children or assume that this is the right lifestyle for everyone. Even today, in 2011, there's that attitude, and it bugs me.

I do think that this could help with overpopulation. We have too many people, not enough jobs, not enough resources. I can't help but wonder if and how soon certain developing countries will eventually catch up to the first world--not just in technology and standards of living, but also in pollution and waste and emissions.

I think that birth control should also be made safer, more effective, much more difficult to tamper with, and more readily available and affordable. I think that every person should get to control his/her own body and that a partner's consent/consultation should NOT be required for sterilization or to get birth control (people tell me that spouses actually get to go with their partners and have a say in sterilization decisions, something that I do not agree with at all, as some spouses are controlling and domineering).

I think that greater access to affordable, safe, and EFFECTIVE methods of birth control and comprehensive sex education could help the planet not just in terms of environment, but socially. If women worldwide were better educated and had more control over their bodies, perhaps some would choose to have fewer children and would choose instead to get an education and find higher-paying work and enjoy a higher standard of living. More women in the workforce could help with workplace inequality (such as men being paid more for the same work). Fewer children, too, could be good for employers because it means less time and money spent on maternity leave, which means less of a loss (financially as well as with work/job performance) for the companies. Win-win.

------------------
*I use the whole sign system*

Personal Planets:
Sun, Mercury: Libra
Venus: Scorpio
Moon: Cancer
Mars: Capricorn

See my profile for my complete chart.

IP: Logged

juniperb
Moderator

Posts: 3203
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 08, 2011 10:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What country are you from Regardes?

An over the counter morning after pill is available in the United States for the over 18 yr olds. (It was just decided it could NOT be made available over the counter to the under 18 age)

Voluntary sterlization is simply that voluntary and never should be made an ideal for all... I do believe you touched upon the needs for women and the general population of Mother earth


quote:
I think that birth control should also be made safer, more effective, much more difficult to tamper with, and more readily available and affordable.

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 08, 2011 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
Also, I have to point out: if you consider voluntary sterilization to be 'unnatural' and 'against nature' or 'reversing' it, how do you justify birth control, which does the same thing, only temporarily instead of permanently? (Again, not trying to be rude, just genuinely curious).

Thanks for sharing RegardesPlatero. In response to your comment about voluntary sterilization, I am in full support of all technologies used to manage and mediate reproduction. Choices, choices, choices all the way! I don't hear much talk about this subject that's why I decided to bring it up. However in regards to myself I'm torn between mediating myself or using procedures to do that.

Personally, I see the value, environmental consideration and convenience in sterilization. However, it's a complicated topic. I don't consider sterilization or any form of birth control or prevention to be taboo, intellectually I fully support all practices and choices related to managing reproduction.

I'm still deciding what route I'd take personally and that's where my response to "reversing" nature came from, only in relation to my own nature. What's great is that we as humans have a conscious so we can make informed choices. Technology is the future and maybe that's just our destiny as human beings. To become cyborgs in a sense, which is fascinating and scary. In my own life I try to find a healthy balance between nature and technology.

Side note: I can't help thinking about BattleStar Galactica when I think of the future of civilization and technology.

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 08, 2011 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by starfox:
I agree, I think there is enough for everyone, but the way we run it now is so badly skewed in the favour of the greedy disgusting ones.

These people who wish to sit on their own hill made of gold, I think your time is soon over with & permanently!


It's true and unfortunately that's our history as a civilization. Empires built on the blood of others for all things but greed and power. It's going to take a lot to reform our global societies. We need a shift in consciousnesses because the root of the problem historically seems to be stemmed from human nature. We'd need to make sacrifices in order to live in a way that benefited the welfare of not only humanity but the whole planet. The great thing is that the shift has already begun.

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 15148
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 09, 2011 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That morning after pill has some heinous side-effects.

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

juniperb
Moderator

Posts: 3203
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 09, 2011 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
That morning after pill has some heinous side-effects.


I understand that`s why under 18 can`t purchase it over the counter.

Anyhow, perhaps the heinous side effects of the pill is more bearable than the lifelong side effects of an unwanted baby for say, a 12 yr old?

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

IP: Logged

juniperb
Moderator

Posts: 3203
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 09, 2011 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was wrong, the age is 17 and over who can purchase it.

Link to the latest controversy:
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/ap/us_med_morning_after_pill

------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

IP: Logged

Mblake81
Knowflake

Posts: 2037
From:
Registered: Aug 2010

posted December 09, 2011 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mblake81     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
The other side of the argument states that there is no overpopulation and that the Earth can comfortably sustain ten times the present human population.


What is going to stop the population that is ten times larger from growing by another percent, then another and so on and so forth?

People want sex.

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 09, 2011 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
Anyhow, perhaps the heinous side effects of the pill is more bearable than the lifelong side effects of an unwanted baby for say, a 12 yr old?

Very true. And sexual assault victims and the list goes on. Birth control, sterilization, abortion, the morning after pill, all these products and procedures allow people to have a choice, which is of the utmost importance, people to utilize their human right to choose whether or not to accept something they'd rather not.

IP: Logged

NativelyJoan
Knowflake

Posts: 659
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 09, 2011 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The problem with overpopulation whether or not it's a problem is up for discussion, however the issue I see with the state of our modern world is misuse of natural resources and an imbalance in allocation. Maybe epidemics and the high rates of murder globally will take care of the situation, which is disgusting, but how dare we not try to mediate the situation ourselves. So we won't have vast differences in global well being. Countries where resources are depleted and people are dying from malnutrition and starvation while other countries sit on their laurels having previously exploited those underdeveloped nations. It's just sickening. We have a choice to do something.

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 15148
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 10, 2011 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The US is the most generous nation on earth. Even when at war, we drop food and medicine.

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright © 2012

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a