posted June 05, 2003 04:24 AM              

While the twelfth house MAY show hidden enemies, dangers and confinements----those all being the negative meanings (which can apply to any house: each house can have positive or negative manifestations; but, as with any house: the will of an individual must be in control rather than let self be controlled by urges), the more positive, true and exciting meaning of the twelfth house is accomplishments that are wordly in nature or benefits to mankind.

Mars in the twelfth house could be remembered for having had many combats and conquest in life----although that is not necessarily bad. For example, Mars could fight for others' rights or Mars' reason for existence can be to fight and conquer good over bad, etc. Or: Mars can be remembered for issues pertaining to power, steel, iron----or all things pertaining to masculine pursuits.

The twelfth house is the culmination of all other houses and a person can use all of his or her talents in that domain from all past incarnations. Anyone in history that has left something worthwhile to the world has definitely had to have a strong twelfth house. It also shows one's reasons for existence and the way(s) one will go about attaining one's purpose in life.

posted June 05, 2003 08:02 AM              

The 12th House is thought to generally have to do with the unconscious mind, Mars with your expression through action, and Mars in Gemini indicates expressining that mental activity aggressively.

If there are any aspects to Mars, they also combine to modifly the meaning of this placement and need to be considered when determining the meaning in your chart.

Don't forget that we all have free will and can be aware and control our actions. Only if we remain unaware and uncaring do we exhibit pure planetary characteristics.

Mars is the next planet to be discussed in the free lessons section. I suggest that you join us there and learn about your Mars.

posted June 05, 2003 11:15 AM              

I know a few people with 12th house Mars, in air signs, and sexuality is intellectualized and very important.

posted June 05, 2003 01:59 PM              

Another thing I would like to say is don't get dicouraged if you have inharmonious aspects. Hard aspects indicate obstacles and much effort that needs to be exercised in overcoming them. One can truly advance that way.

Although hard aspects show obstacles, they also produce the greatest gains (when appropriate actions are taken), as well as build strength of character!

Shaun

posted June 05, 2003 02:17 PM              

Not kibbles and bits

Really Mars in the 12th is wonderful for a writer, filmaker or artist.

What does it mean when you have Neptune in the 12th in Scorp? Is there a challenge there?

posted June 05, 2003 02:30 PM            

It's good to see you back. How are things?

I hope all is well!!!

posted June 05, 2003 02:35 PM              

You crack me up.

posted June 05, 2003 06:05 PM            

webmaster@linda-goodman.com

He'll arrange for you to have access to the astrology course (it's free). Then to find the course just scroll down the page that lists all of the forums on this site and you'll see it.
Look forward to seeing you there.
Sue

posted June 05, 2003 07:04 PM              

Lioneye, I have read that Neptune is happy there, but that doesn't say much. I'm pretty private on some levels, and do tend to have a lot of dreams, day and night. I call these dreams work but I am an artist so I make it part of my life. I get along really well with those that have 12th house placements, or 6th house placements. It is a challenge for me to get in touch with my feelings especially anger..I push myself to be more assertive. There is not much except that the 12th house is what's hidden.

I do have the challenge of defining my own ego, and setting limits, but I do not know what Neptune in the 12th house means to others. Music almost makes me feel drunk, it affects me very strongly.

posted June 05, 2003 09:48 PM              

Neptune in the 12th house in Scorpio can mean one who goes about attaining accomplishments involving spirituality or highly cultivated activities that includes making things extraordinary, or always putting that extra icing on the cake. Being in the sign Scorpio means that those worldly accomplishments and services to others can have much depth to them, with a magnetic/charismatic charm that will intrigue others. It's placement in Scorpio can also mean penetrating to the depths of spiritual subjects and universal truths, where the implication can affect mankind in a tremendous way. Neptune also relates to liquids, gases, medications, oils, acting, films, etc.

Hi, Pidaua! I am fine. Everything is okay for me. It's going to be painful for my mom. I can't stand seeing her sad----that's what really hurts me: seeing her upset. But she's a very strong lady, so although it will take a while for her to overcome it----she will. It's just that several people that she's been close died. I must do something to make her happy----I just have to.

Chelle----as for your high sex drive: I would say look to your 5th house and any planets therein and their aspects and sign placements. Mars in your 12th house in the literary sign Gemini can mean an increase in working with your hands. Do you have Gemini on the cusp of your 12th house? If so, I do, too!

Lost Leo: you wanted to know about Venus in the 12th house. I have Venus in my 12th house (as well as Jupiter and the Sun), and Venus is conjunct my ASC. Venus in the 12th house provides artisitc or social services to others or goes about attaining those type of accomplishments in attempt to make a difference in the world. Any planet in the 12th house can have Piscean characteristics. That includes going in circles in trying to figure out what one really whats to do, I speak from experience when I say that. I have my Venus conjunct my Jupiter----both in the sign Cancer. So my contacts with females will be many and constantly expanding. Issues pertaining to love have gone through highs and lows (the Venus conjunction with Jupiter----Jupiter always expands and makes things bigger, in addition to the it being in the emotional sign Cancer, so things that normally happen for Cancer will increase), I love music and making tapes for others to hear and enjoy.

Venus being co-ruler of my intercepted Libra 4th house and 11th house means that I constantly desire beautiful surroundings and homes and harmonious experiences, have manly female friends (11th house cusp Taurus) and family members (again, the intercepted Libra in 4th) and have the most fun with my friends (11th house).

Venus is square my Pluto----Pluto located in my fourth house, so certain family members will attempt to (or try to) dominant matters. I have a lot of very powerful females in my family----some of them have even beaten up men. There have been power issues in my family----especially with my oldest sister and her husband (he's a Libra Sun, very tall and tries to intimidate others). He's really a wicked and infinite bas****! He and my sister have absolutely no respect or consideration for my mother and think that everyone has to cower down to them, as if they were KING and QUEEN of the universe. Much of the blame goes to many family members who put them on such a high pedestal (only if they knew the things that I know about them!; but then again, even if they did, I don't think it would make any difference; well, that's the power that they have over a lot of my family members [except me and several others], so----?)

Other problems with the Venus square Pluto in Libra----a sign ruled by Venus, is that certain people in my family want me to do things for them (that's in the nature of providing a service [12th house Venus square 4th house Pluto]), which I don't mind doing; but then once I do something for them, they assume that it's my "duty" (OH!!!, how I HATE that word!!!) to keep doing something for them, or that I "HAVE TO" do something for them. And that's when I have to nip sh*t in the bud let them know that I don't "HAVE TO" do anything. Normally, I'm the nice one that others used to take advantage of: either my doing something for them and not accepting money or being way, way underpaid to do something that takes a lot of my time and effort and that I should be paid a whole lot more for doing. But many are just plain users and called only when they wanted something from me. However that problem no longer exist for me, because I put a stop to it long ago.

I also tend to be really secretive around my family members----not necessarily secretive, but I have a hard time expressing myself freely around them: it can be something as simple having a conversation (especially when there are a lot of them around), but I discovered the reason why: they are always trying to figure out what's going on in everybody's life. Most are very nosey (Virgo on cusp of IC, Mercury in Gemini) and tend to run off at the mouth behind one's back and then smile in one's face, as if nothing was ever said (very phony and two-faced----not all, but more than enough). So I believe that's why I tend to keep to myself and all my personal business----PERSONAL (which I do anyway, no matter who I'm around).

Pluto being ruler of my 5th house cusp Scorpio means problems with issues pertaining that house and the controlling of urges.

I also dislike superficiality or doing things solely for appearance----or for the sake of impressing other people or for social acceptability (this relates partly to Venus's aspect to Pluto in addition to Uranus's aspects in my chart).

So----these are the problems all relating to the planet Venus in my twelfth house (and it's house rulers) square Pluto in my fourth house (and it's house rulers).

What else? Uhm----another interpretion with respect to Venus in my 12th house. . . .Oh, yes: the services provided will be mostly for females. My Venus conjunct Jupiter means that in providing services to others, I sometimes tend to take on a lot more than I can handle. Venus's reason for existence in the 12th is to beautify the world----whether socially or artistically. There is a lot more, but I think I said enough for you to understand it's meaning, and I gave examples of Venus's aspects to Pluto, so you can be able to do the same in your chart, with respect to your 12th house Venus.

posted June 06, 2003 12:24 AM              

Shaun I know where you are coming from on that perfectly, I have many gossips in my family too. It's cold, and inhuman. Gossip makes me very angry.

I do not like superficiality at all either, could oils mean oil painting? I do a lot of charitable work and my goal is to do even more. I want to have the strength to do that. I think my own worst enemy is myself, so I do not really get the hidden enemy part.

What if Mars in Pisces is the Singleton (only water) in the 12th house? (my sister)
If mars is in the 12th house and the so is the ascendant does that mean they are conjunct even if the ascendant is in aries? I thought that was unusual. We were trying to get an idea of what that means.

I wonder what it means if Neptune is a singleton in (only water) Scorpio (2nd house)? Does that person act like a Pisces? What are the negative or positive traits?

Pisces and the 12th house, is big in my life.

posted June 06, 2003 01:29 AM              

Yes, those type of people have nothing better to do than to gossip----by doing so they only confess the true nature of their characters in fact that they are incapable (or imcompetent) of either having healthy relationships with other people or having found productive work that is meaningful to them and that they are passionate about; if they did have either, they would have no need to focus their energy on gossiping: they would be too happy either with the relationships that they have or in doing something productive and with a purpose. Anyway----moving on. . . .

Natasha----if I understand your first question correctly, are you asking that if Mars is in Pisces in the 12th house, but is conjunct the ASC in Aries----would it still be considered a conjunction to the ASC, since Mars is in a different sign? If so, then yes: it would definitely be considered a conjunction. That means Mars would have to be at the end of Pisces and the ASC would be at the beginning of Aries.

How wide is the conjunct? For any effects to be noticeable in the personality, the conjunction can be no wider than 3 degrees.

Mars conjunct the ASC indicates a person with a fighting spirit. The person will be into sports, motorcycling (if male, although that does not necessarily have to be the case: women can and do ride motorcycles, too), weightlifting, hunting, military and most things considered masculine activities. The person can be susceptible to accidents, burns, scalds, wounds, abrasions and bruises.

To your second question regarding Neptune in Scorpio: Neptune in Scorpio in the 2nd house can earn money through film, acting, gases, liquids or has highly cultivated means in going about earning money and spending it. Money can be liquidy and run through one's fingers. Negatively, one can be deceived and fraud can be an issue with respect to money matters. Positively, Neptune has highly creative talents (2nd house shows talents as well), and can earn income in highly artistic and dramatic pursuits. Neptune in Scorpio can be mysterious in letting others know how income is earned. Scorpio will put much vitality and work harder than most in obtaining an income.

As far as the 12th house and hidden enemies go: that does not necessarily have to come to pass. I get upset at the fact that many astrologers focus on this negative aspect of this house: you virtually never hear astrologers talking about the 12th house showing one's reasons for existence, the house of one's BIG accomplishments, where the consequences can affect the world at large (as opposed to 6th house work and accomplishments, which are personal---and there is nothing wrong with that, either: only, they will remain personal).

Focusing on the positive aspects of this major house of accomplishments can dilute and even eliminate negative karma, because you are helping others (not as a servant----I certainly don't consider myself to be anyone's "servant"----but doing something you're excited about it, that you value and that you would like to see changed in the world for the better. The goal can be something that's highly personal to you: you do not choose to do something just because others are interested or may need it; rather do it because YOU have a passion for it and THEN, if you believe that what you have is great and you want to make it a reality and see it everywhere----spread it all over the world. Others will enjoy and benefit from whatever unique gifts you have to offer. The manifestations can be many: books written that have impacted and changed others' lives, inventions created that has made life more convenient and comfortable, doctors that have saved people's lives, Judges, etc----all are in fields that benefit mankind. My conviction is the exact opposite of what is commonly accepted regarding individuals in such fields that benefit mankind: many say that those in service fields are here to "serve" humankind; they say "They are here to serve us!". I say, "We are all in debt to and should be thanking THEM---the one's who made the benefits we reap possible!").

Didn't mean to go riding off track, there!

Anyway----I hope I answered your questions satisfactorily.

posted June 06, 2003 08:16 AM              

Cheers,

posted June 06, 2003 11:22 AM              

The aspects in my sister's case are not close enough to be conjunction, although I have a conjunction (mars) on my ascendant (Sag mars and rising) so I know what you mean. I can be very passionate about fighting for the Arts for everyone. There are so many barriers socially. I also have Neptune conjunct my ascendant. Neptune on the ascendant doesn't make for a lot of self confidence though and I had to fight for that in my life and in the lives of people I love.

Both people I mentioned make their living indirectly through the Arts but would like to be more involved directly, I think they lack confidence in their talents and are making a living in other fields. That is why I wanted to know, I wanted to boost their confidence because I love seeing the Arts getting talented people. I don't just love the Arts/Neptune, the Arts love me and are always talking to me.

I believe the 12th house is about passion, real dedication and devotion and deep energy, there is a lot of power from it, the exact opposite of the way I feel after work. There is a huge motivating factor, a burst of energy that comes from Neptune. I like to visualize the 12th house as a wave carrying me up, rather than me peddling my own boat. The challenge is accepting this motivation, and my talents. When I do this I can accept love and kindness from those around me.

There is lot of passion and energy around the people with the 12th house placements, and those I know with the moon in pisces, or the moon in the 12th house have it too. I literally feel energized.

Thank you, you know I feel physically better when I remove myself from those who gossip, it's amazing what a difference it's made in my life. I am glad to hear others feel the same way. I don't even like to gossip about celebrities or anyone who isn't there. I feel everyone has the right to their privacy. I used to work around those who gossiped all day, lots of mercury there, and I became so seriously ill (physically) I had to take a leave of absence. I work at getting media attention for myself and others almost every day, but I believe this is a two edged sword and I take it very seriously.

posted June 06, 2003 12:31 PM              

You're welcome, and I wish you the same!

(One more suggestion: Do EVERYTHING passionately----it will enrich your life so much).

May much success come your way,

Shaun

Hi, Swerve!

I can't really tell you want the true node means, because I myself an not too sure of its meaning----if has any meaning at all. I've heard some meanings given to it, but did not accept it because I did not find sufficient proof of as whether those meaning were correct. Or the basis from which those meanings stem. So----?

However, if you have Scorpio on your 12th house cusp, you will certainly go far beyond most and work harder than most in attaining worthwhile accomplishments----being extremely resourceful and able to dig deep and find solutions when all others are at a loss.