posted July 16, 2003 10:03 PM              

The only thing parents and children share is karma of some sort.

posted July 17, 2003 12:04 AM              

That's an interesting question; here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

I agree with StarLover about the karma. My Mother was Cancer and my Father is Taurus and they both greatly impacted my Geminian energies. Also my brother is a Cappy, so there were times I felt like the odd one out with my air Sun. BUT...I connect astrologically with all three of them - - I have 3 planets in Cancer and 2 in the 4th, Venus in Taurus, my Mom had a Gemini Ascendant and my brother has a Gem Moon. I also have ties with my 2 daughters involving Gemini, Scorpio and Pisces, so yes, karma.

posted July 17, 2003 05:43 AM              

One might say i'm a very cappy-ised Aqua, although saturn is strong in my chart anyway.

posted July 17, 2003 09:33 AM              

Most of us take on a lot of characteristics of our parents, or significant adult. As we mature we tend to express our own natal chart individuality. Of course our genetics are always at play.

If our parents are Cancer Suns, their behavior is oftem emulated by the children, at least early on. Anyone who has had children though knows that for the most part, each is an individual in their own right, and that stems from there natal chart.

My 2 Cents

Lanny

posted July 17, 2003 09:38 AM              

I'm sure my parents (mother 1 May '45, & Father 9 March '46)had a very profound impact on the way I've turned out.

I grew up in a household where my parents fighting, both verbally and physically was very much the norm! They divorced in the end but this didn't make life any easier. My mother seems to resent me and tells me regularly that I'm a failure...she tells me she sees my father in me and she seems to dislike me for it....and as for my father, I always tried to do things that would make him proud...because I don't think he ever was. I think he saw me as a failure too...He started a new life when they divorced and didn't want me to be part of it - I haven't heard from him in 10 years...that said though, even though I haven't seen him for years, I know I still do things with him in mind...it's like I strive to make him be proud of me even though he he'll never be aware of what these things I do are!

posted July 17, 2003 09:43 PM              

i can really relate. i am so sorry that you ended up with parents who werent very supportive. i could go out on a limb and say your parents sound as screwed up as mine. i hope you DO NOT BELIEVE IT when your mother tells you you are a failure. i firmly believe that a mother who would say such things is projecting their feelings onto their child, of how they feel about themselves and their own inadequacies... transferance, you know? unfortunately it happens when a person is too proud/stubborn/egotistical/whathaveyou to own up to their own responsibilities and accept their own culpability in a situation. conversely, perhaps they really do feel that the child 'ruined' their life, but this is delusion. a child will only ruin a parents life if THEY (the parents) 'let' them. adults have all the power and responsibility in the relationship, for a long time, years! even into adulthood parents can have a strong 'power' over us. being a parent is definitely a very serious responsibility. unfortunately almost everyone can biologically 'have' a child, but more often than not, i see parents who really werent suitable to have had the blessing of children. it just makes me so sad because i know that being a parent is such an awesome responsibility, and involves a certain amount of sacrifice sometimes, and i have seen many parents who COULD have done so well for their child, yet havent for their own selfish reasons and the damage is very deep and incredibly hurtful and long lasting, the roots are deep. my own parents are a prime example.

the mother/child relationship is one of the most holy and vulnerable relationships there are. there are tremendous trust issues involved, and the relationship is more vulnerable than any other we may have in life because by its very nature, its a relationship that is at risk for abuse of power over another. it is very easy for a parent to be a 'tyrant' or 'despot' 'abuser' etc... its all private and behind closed doors.

relationships with a father are at risk too. fathers are supposed to help cultivate a sense of self esteem in their child so that when the child is ready to cut the apron strings and leave the nest (and their mother), they are adequately prepared for life and dealing with other people. a lot of fathers dont do that it seems. there are fathers like yours, who just abandon you and send a message that you arent important, your feelings dont matter, and you are of little significance. there are fathers like mine who criticise and put me down every time i say anything, sometimes very cruelly. thats sending me a message that i am always wrong and will never amount to anything because i must be an unworthy person, my feelings certainly dont matter and i am only important enough to be an emotional punching bag, there is no other value in me as a person, to him. well thats a great way to foster self esteem in your child, dad! WAY TO GO. (/sarcasm)

often people do get 'stuck' with verbally abusive/ absentee parents... i suppose its to learn some sort of lesson. it doesnt make the hurt go away though. aw i just wanna give you a huge hug, for i think i have a pretty good idea of how you feel. probably quite similar to me, sometimes... although i wouldnt presume that i know how you feel. i just think i might have an idea, and i feel much compassion for you.

with my parents-

my mother is a leo and my father is a scorpio. they are both the very WORST examples of their signs. my mothers ego has gotten out of control, she is very much a narcissist and quite mentally ill. my father had to go through a lot of awful things in his life but he is one of the basest scorpios i have ever known. he is perverse to an extent (luckily as his daughter i havent been exposed to it that much, but i still have been to some extent, and it GROSSES me out, i just do not want to think of my parents having sex at all). he is unrelentingly jealous, he is unsupportive and quite cruel at times.

neither parent really treats me like their 'child', but as a nemesis... all i did was be born. i was a lovely child from all accounts. the thing is... both were very young when i was conceived. my mother was only a month into her 18th year when i was born. they both resented me very much, from the time i was born. i was unplanned and the reason for their marriage. they blamed me for their marriage. it was a shotgun wedding, in 1969 thats how things were done. couldnt get an abortion to save your life, and my mothers family would have killed her if she had of adopted me out, they loved babies and they loved me well. so, there was no other way but to marry my dad. they had an awful marriage, and a lot of hostility was directed toward me... because subconsciously they both blamed me for their being married. how twisted is that, right? they were adults who made their own free will choices. i was the true innocent in the scenario, many times i said that i never wished to be born, and that i really wished they had of used birth control or just bloody abstained.

they could have had so much joy from me too, and it could have healed them, had they been decent enough to value my presence in their lives. i was a very odd child... i was reading at age 3 (i had taught myself by observing signs and things and asking what the strange symbols called letters were) and i was reading adult books like stephen king (he was a favorate and it never scared me) when i was about 7 or 8. i was very bright, deemed gifted in school, was very charming and cute and EVERYONE loved me so much! i am not bragging, i am no longer the child i was so to me its like im describing another person. anyway, my mother couldnt handle it. my father was pretty distant in those days, his friends were really the only important thing in his life and i remember him not being around a lot. sort of like you but reversed... when he was around he would do cruel things like taunt me, pretending that he was only teasing, but you knew there was an undercurrent of maliciousness behind it. do you know what i mean? once my mother threw a coffee cup at him because he wouldnt stop 'teasing' me. i was obviously distraught, it had gone beyond mere good natured teasing, and she exploded. thats one good thing i can say about her, although it was only with my dad... but she was protective of me. if it was anyone else though, she was passive. but when my father would start on me, shed be on him like one of the Furies. they often used me as a lever against each other, even in present times, when they have been separated for HALF my life! seems neither one of them can let go.

my mother couldnt stand that i was taking attention away from her. her ego is immense and out of control, as i said. she had a bad life too... but instead of feeling pride that she had a part in creating me, it turned to jealousy and resentment. 'you had to be born which made me end up in a marriage i didnt want, and not only that but you stole the limelight from me'. shes made me pay my whole life. both of them treated their friends much better than they did me, their own daughter! my parents are a train wreck, really.

karmically i know that there are serious lessons i needed to learn... i dont believe i deserved the abuse etc, thats one belief of lindas that i wholeheartedly disagree with. i dont feel that i 'hurt' my parents in a past life, as she suggests in star signs. i think that sometimes we just need to learn a lesson (looking at saturn) and the universe will set that lesson up for us so that we can learn it and move on. i have a feeling that in a past life i was quite a dependant person, and in this life, i have to learn to be independant and rely on myself for things i expected from other people before. so, 'fate' had to give me a scenario where i would HAVE to take action for myself, and learn the lesson of self sufficiency and independance. i am trying, and its hard. i think im getting it though.

in my chart you can plainly see where my parents have affected me. my moon (mother) is in aries, in the third house with chiron (but no aspect). moon is opposed merc and jupiter. my third is ruled by pisces, which is interesting because the three most influential people in my formative years were all pisces, my aunt, my grama (who pretty much raised me) and my best friend of my teenage years. my 9th house is packed, and is the house directly opposite the third. my ic is aries as well, and apparently it usually describes the mother but in my case it describes my father, i cant remember why. my friend, sort of 'guru' explained it to me but i cant remember right now, sorry. my saturn is in taurus in the 4th, which is ruled by aries. its part of a grand trine with venus in virgo and mars in cap... but my grand trine is not a blessing. its been the biggest obstacle in my chart thus far. the ruler of my 4th is mars, and he is in the 12th house in cap, and the ruler of the third is neptune, in my 11th in scorp. theres a LOT going on in my chart, parental wise.

as of almost two years ago, i effectively cut my mother out of my life. i just couldnt stand her abuse anymore, i was 32 years old, and enough was enough. i needed to grow, to realize my own potential, and i did not feel i owed her something that had to be paid at the expense of my own ego, she would have swallowed mine whole had i not left. i am no slave to anyone, i am worth more than that, and have tremendous potential to be of service to others who dont abuse me in return. i have felt so much better since ive done that. i *have* grown... and have finally grown up. she kept me as dependant and afraid to assert my own needs because it gave her a perverse sort of power, and she thrives on power. so i was a child/adolescent for far longer than i should have been. these days i have no resentment for her, i realize that it was just the way things had to be. i feel a little sorry for her, but very proud of myself for breaking free. it doesnt serve her in the end either, me putting up with abuse. it makes things worse for her in the long run too. i guess i am sort of forgiving, although i do not excuse her of her responsibility for what she has done. i have really no feelings whatsoever toward her, she must own her own karma. no bad no good, just neutral. i did miss having a 'mother' for awhile after i cut her off, it was a grieving process for sure. but honestly, ive been grieving for my 'lost' mother since i was about 10 years old, if i think about it. she was there but she was not.

as for my father, hes a harder nut to crack. i am approaching the mindset lately that i shall have to do the same with him. i think ill be a better person for it. i just have to let go. it bothers me a lot because i just wish he could be proud of me... for once. but i know that in this life, its just not in the cards. so, i have to get 'right' about it then just quietly remove him from my life, i guess ive already started, i dont tell him anything anymore and i never phone him. i can forgive him too, but again, that doesnt mean he bears no responsibility for how he has treated me and others. thats his lesson though, and i have nothing to do with it.

well, another long post from me. *sigh*

its all worth it though, if it helps someone.

take care *hugs*

~ana

posted July 18, 2003 12:36 AM              

Weren't you seeing a Scorpio for a while or was that an old beau?

You are a Pisces right? If so it looks good. Mars in Cancer, needs a lot of affection.

posted July 18, 2003 07:46 AM              

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all of this to me...not that I would wish it on anyone but, it's a comfort to know I'm not the only one who edured this type of behaviour from parents.

May love and light always surround you

posted July 19, 2003 02:27 AM              

i thought of making a healing circle thread for those of us who have had hard families to grow up in. this might as well be one though, lol.

i have commented more on the other mothery thread, and im too tired/drained to go into more detail. ill just say that you all are wonderful... its obvious in the fact that you are *here* that you are good people that want to be the best people you *can* be and probably none of us deserved the families we got. but, there is a reason, somewhere down the road im sure. even if its to make us stronger... teach us some sort of valuable lesson.

tuesday i understand how you feel... it might not happen that way though, because you are AWARE of the issues, so they are not part of your subconscious. what bad parent was aware that they were, except maybe in small doses of insight once in awhile, like psychic flashes that are quickly forgotten? i doubt you would be a bad parent. awareness makes all the difference. i always thought even at an early age, that i would 'break the chain'. how funny for such a small child to have such insight and to really understand that things werent 'right'... but i did and i believe many children do. if you have a desire to have children and would love them, then you should. you would probably make a better parent, because you have an intimate understanding of how not to be. i havent had kids yet because my husband isnt ready, and we cant support them financially. i think id be a good mom though. i know i would.

dorkus me dearie, i tend to think of that 'ending up as your parents' as being an urban myth, although certainly theres a bit of truth in it. certainly i think that people like us who are very opposed to our parents, never having a harmonius relationship with them, gives us more energy to be unlike them. i would think that people who are very close and have good relationships with their parents would become more like them than we would, its not a long leap for them. just seems more natural to me... how would we become our parents when for our whole lives we were so 'far apart'? thats a massive leap. dont even fear that, but dont let it make you lazy either... often we see things in parents (as they are the quintessential role models) and in the back of our minds we know they are wrong, yet we rationalize 'well thats what mom was like, why am i any different' and that limits our thinking and therefore behaviour.

i very much like to take down boundaries that stifle our creativity and personality, the boundaries that arent useful nor constructed to keep us safe and respect others. as a moat can keep our castle safe, so too can it lock us in.

does that make sense? im not too clear today.

posted July 25, 2003 10:35 AM              

Dorkus - I'm so sorry to hear that you too have a 'cross to bear' I know what you mean about wishing you were dead...I've felt like that too at times, thanks to my Mum. I hope you don't keep everything locked up inside you and that there is someone who you can open up to in some way. I bet you can't wait to get away. I hope between now and the time you graduate things don't get any harder to handle. I wish you luck for when the time comes that you can finally escape

Duality - Thanks for your kind words, they mean a lot.

Tuesday - Thanks for the hug