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Author Topic:   The Ascendent and it's role in Initial and potentially False Attractions
pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 05, 2003 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So many times I read about people getting involved with relationships that start off so wonderful and then the person says "He / She is NOT what I expected" "Once we got to know each other He / She changed".

I started to think abuot what we know about our rising sign (well the common theory). We know that it is what we show to the world. It is the face that we wear in new situations. It is the image that we keep in order to protect our other planets from
popping out, until we are comfortable.

I have read posts from people that are very Earthy, yet they have a blazing Leo / Sag / Aries rising sign. The fire sign they attracts, see within the mates ascendent, a part of themselves. The more fire in the chart, the more potential for conjunctions and trines to that persons ascendent. Sounds great right?

No, because then we are seeing (this is my theory based on my own interations and posts I have read...I will get to that later) is really a false attraction IF there are no other factors between the two or very square factors.

Let's say the couple above is a Taurus Male, with a Capricorn Moon, Taurus Venus,..etc...mostly earth and some water. BUT, he has a Leo rising. He is gregarious, optimistic, almost the life of the party. He attracts a Leo woman, with an Aries moon, Leo mercury, Leo Venus...etc...with a Virgo rising.

She is seeing her Leo nature in his Leo rising eyes. He sees her analytical Virgo nature,which appeals to his moon, Sun. etc... BUT wait, then they start dating, getting comfortable with each other. Her Leo nature begins to blossum as does it Taurus nature. Now, yes, this can still work out, but there are going to be problems BIG problems. She will wonder "What happened to that outgoing Man, he just wants to be pampered and sit on the couch".

He says, "why isn't she as analytical or much of a caretaker to my needs. She is always on the go, wanting to get dolled up and go out".

So, it makes me think...has anyone else experienced this? I saw this in a post a while back with a sweet Cancer women and a Sagittarius man. She had a Leo rising. He had a lot of fire.

For me, I have seen it with many Virgo's in my life. The more Virgo they are, the more they are really into me. Until my true Sagittarian nature comes out.

Comments?


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lioneye68
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posted November 05, 2003 02:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, Pid!
Yeah, that's a total snaffu in relationships sometimes, but it's only a big problem when the Ascendant is so very different from the rest of the natal chart, like in your examples there.

Also, if the ruler of the ascendant in the natal chart is more in sync with the personal placements in the n/c, it lends some tolerance to the ascendant, even if ascendant is fire, and everything else is, say..water.
(for instance, if the individual is mostly water, but has Aries rising, it may not be so bad if they just happened to have Mars in Cancer...the ruler of the asc. rules the chart, remember.)

Another thing to consider is the sign opposite the ascendant, the descendant because that reflects what we look for in others, because we think we're lacking it. And that sign will naturally be compatable by element to those who our ascendant is drawing to us.

But I do believe it's true, a relationship cannot survive on ascendant contacts alone. It can remain cordial and comfortable on a superficial level, though.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 05, 2003 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I hear what you are saying.

I guess I have just seen so many examples lately where people just can't believe their mate isn't what they expected.

Like for me, I have Pluto conjunct my Virgo Ascendent, Mercury is in Capricorn in the 4th house. I find that Capricorn and Virgo men just about fawn all over me. (Fire signs with some Earthy Asecendent will do the same or with a strong Mars will make a move).

But I have just been so disappointed lately with some of my male friends. Most of which have heavy Virgo or Capricorn in their charts. Also, my relationships with these signs in the past also reveal the same thing. My Descendent is Pisces / Aries. Pisces occupies only a small portion of my 7th house whereas Aries takes the cake.

With the exception of Mr. Leo. I have found that many men will see that Virgo Ascendent and maybe even the mystery of the Pluto conjunction and see a woman that needs to be taken care of, or worse yet, pose as a trophy, all polished up for them to take out.

Then, they realize that the trophy has extremely strong views and opinions and it makes them cringe like only a Virgo, Cappy and Taurus can. LOL


I agree that the Ascendent contacts really help and in most cases add to the attraction.

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stellar1
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posted November 05, 2003 02:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Pidaua,

I think I know exactly what you mean! I've run into this scenario plenty of times in false attractions having a Sag ASC and Virgo SUN. What happens is that I'll attract an agressive firey type or a flighty airy type, but once they get to know me and sense the groundedness in me, they start running!
For me, I think others think I'm more aggressive and assertive than my Virgo Sun really prefers, and then they end up feeling that I've portrayed myself differently. Also, it doesn't help that I have Neptune in my first house as well - so I can easily fit the role they want to see initally.
Now, I'm learning to put a little more of my Virgo needs on the table, at least in the beginning, to see if the potential mate can handle some of my earthiness.
Thanks for bringing this up, though! I wondered if others had to deal with this too.

stellar

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lioneye68
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posted November 05, 2003 03:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I'm really at the mercy of my ascendant's ruler, because I'm a Leo with Sagittarius rising (Jupiter ruled), Aqua moon, but I can't seem to attract anything but Virgos. Guess what sign my Jupiter is in? Virgo, you guessed it.

So, listening to you guys, I have to wonder WHY haven't I ever been approached by a Saggie, or even an Aries or Leo for that matter? Well, I've been approached, but never "sold". My 3 longest term, most meaningful relationships have all been with Virgos (including current) even though they frustrate me with their negativity and narrow mindedness, (not to mention their tendancy to "lip off"), but somehow, I rejoice in all that too.

I don't know...sucker for punishment, maybe?

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Aphrodite
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posted November 05, 2003 03:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd like to attract a complimentary fire sign too. Even as a friend. Seems I'm not able to keep Air or Fire sign friends for long. All of my friends of at least two years are Earth signs.

Oh well. Live and learn, and try again.

and again.

and again, and again.

and again, and again, and again.

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hooked
unregistered
posted November 05, 2003 03:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Aph, I will trade you a few Sag. friends and an Aries friend for one or two Earths

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dorkus_malorkus
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posted November 05, 2003 03:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Pisces Descendent...I am usually not attracted to Piscean Suns although Pisces seems to inhabit a great deal of the rest of the chart in my love interests (Pisces moon, Pisces Venus). Why do I find most Piscean suns boring or repulsive??? No offense to anyone, who I'm sure most people find me boring and lame so there!

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dorkus_malorkus
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posted November 05, 2003 03:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Btw, I am Virgo Sun, Virgo Asc, Libra moon with Venus 29 degrees Libra (perhaps Scorpio cusp???) I am told Venus has a great deal to do with what we find attractive in a partner???

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hooked
unregistered
posted November 05, 2003 03:59 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have cancer ascendent and lots of water and some air. My boyfriend has taurus ascendent, but the rest of his chart is air and fire. I wouldn't say that I expected something completely different, but it helps that he has 5 or 6 planets in 10th and 6th house. It also helps that I have venus and mercury in aquarius. I know what you mean though, I think I spend day to day accomodating to him He has also made me realize that if I want/need something I should just ASK for it. Ascendents do fuel the initial attraction, I believe, but it does take effort to make it work after that.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 05, 2003 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Lioneye,

Does your Jupiter totally stand out? I mean is it a Singleton or anything? I wonder then if there is something to this or a certain combination. Now, I do see a major attraction with Leo women and Virgo men. The Leo women want to be that center of attraction and will go to great lengths to keep themselves looking steller. Something a Virgo man really appreciates. But Lioneye, you being a total Leo, what would you think if you met a man that had say, a Leo rising or Sag rising, but was a Taurus sun with a Scorp moon?

Like Mr. Leo and I had talked about this. He has a Taurus rising and his ex was a Taurus, with a Cappy moon, Venus in Taurus, and Mars in Aquarius. He felt like once he let his guard down, she was all over him for how perfect he wasn't. Emotionally, they just didn't cut it, never mind the squaring, but he had the same complaint that I had with my ex Virgo (Gemi moon, Virgo Mercury).

Like for some of us with same element Sun / Moon. That gives us a double dose of who we are - tempered by our other planets.

Aphrodite, do you think that maybe your Cappy moon gets to grounded for some of the fiery types to understand? I also noticed that you are a very grounded person in general. Whereas I have noticed other Aries people (and moon peeps....lol...like me) to be totally spastic. LOL

Steller1, you have a great point. It sounds like you and I have been going through alot of the same thing. I also feel like I have let my friends or potential mates down when they realize I am not as grounded or trophy-like as they want me to be. Weird.

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hooked
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posted November 05, 2003 04:01 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
one more weird thing i noticed..i don't see to attract capricorns, but 10th house suns almost exclusively.

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hooked
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posted November 05, 2003 04:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
doesn't 5th house have to do with what friends you have in your life?

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lioneye68
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posted November 05, 2003 05:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, Pidaua, my current is all earth and water, but he has Leo rising, so in his case, his ascendant was like a big flashing neon sign to my sun, merc, mars (especially), and venus...saying "I'm the one! I'm the one! Pick me! Pick me!!"...so I did. But as I get to know him better,
...hmmmm....

*gets lost in thoughts about sweetie*

*pop* oh, yeah sorry. He still does it for me. BUT I'm seeing more and more how he's not like me in alot of ways. His ascendant colors his personality in everything he does and says, but what he chooses to do and say, and when and why, are coming from somewhere else. His ascendant just makes it easier for him to get my cooperation and support, because he's such a kook, and so very charismatic and SEXY. He's got a liveliness to him that I've never seen in a Virgo before.

But, he's also got a loaded 3rd house, so I guess that would make him seem more like a Gemini too, which is good because that's the ruling sign of my 7th house, (my descendant)

What was the question? Oh, my Jupiter, no it's not a singleton, but it's pretty strong in my chart for a few reasons though.
a. It's the ruler of my chart (Sag rising)
b. It's placed in it's home house, the 9th
c. It's the highest planet in my chart "top of the 9th"
e. It's conjunct Pluto and Uranus

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Aphrodite
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posted November 05, 2003 05:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi hooked,

hmm . . . i would trade you my taurus pal with an aries moon, but i think you would return him back before the day is over. LOL.

hi pidaua,

you have a good point. may be another fire sign friend with an earth moon or rising would be alright. hey that's you hehe.

i think it's very interesting you meet lots of virgos that are attracted to you. though i can see why they may get miffed by the sagittarius sun, and that aries moon. virgos aren't famous for sustained passionate displays of lung power. i don't think i've ever seen a virgo get passionately worked up emotionally to go after a cause. that's a fire trait. i can imagine it would be hard for a strong fire sign to feel a commitment to be with someone who doesn't share that magickal gusto that seems to come out from nowhere. not saying that it's impossible, but just very hard without some earth in a firey soul.

as for me, i can assure that you aren't the first person to say i am grounded or laid back for an aries for the most part, i am. i like the serenity and security in basic things like clean laundry and a well-stocked larder. i'm not much of a clubber or into doing crazy things with groups of people. being around loud people makes me uncomfortable.

i become passionate only for things i am serious about. the firey inspiration comes up sometimes in life. being cool and detached is the only polite way i know how to show that i am not fully interested or psyched about something. i know some fire signs become angry when another person doesn't share the same interest or point of views as them. i don't like that and think it is demeaning and disrespectful. i just walk my path as an aries chick who knows her life doesn't revolve around decisions people make about her or the things she loves. life's too precious to spend passion on lost causes when your heart isn't there.

hope this helps.

cheers

aphrodite

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 05, 2003 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Lioneye,

Yes, I would have to agree that Jupiter is definetly pulling in those Virgos to ya!!! Hey, as long as your are happy, then it's great. I think Leo women and Virgo men make great couples.

Aphrodite,

You hit the nail on the head about the earthy tone. I do admire that you are more laid back and grounded. I have a tendency to get riled up, but not to much. I mean, for the most part, I will analyze a situation, weigh the pros and cons, and then make my decision. I like people that are Fiery, but also have that earthy calm about them. Huge demonstrations of yelling / antics or just plain debauchery, really make me want to hide. But I have no problem with a person that is outgoing, happy and loves to laugh.

I have a pretty even number of Earth and Fire, which kind of tempers me unless something just really sets me off. I can be extremely patient (drives my mom nuts) but somethings I am a spaz about. My ex Virgo, was very lively, outgoing (Venus and Mars in Leo), but was also a strong Virgo. So he would really keep himself in check and intellectualize everything.

One of my Virgo friends (ex friend) with a cancer moon is also a Mars Singleton (11th house - in Leo) and also has NO air planets at all. He was like a live wire (oh yeah he was a Virgo rising with his Sun, Mercury and Venus in the 12th house and Uranus in the 1st house). He would go looking for fights, always restless, brags that he was the poster child for ADD as a kid. Needless to say, we CLASHED. I never knew when his Mars would go off and send a chain reaction. But, as time went I would notice the slightest shift in his eyes, like a new personality would kind of emerge then he would go into a rampage. Very odd. He was not the reserved Virgo I was used to being around - they usually abhor such nutty displays.

A Virgo is usually careful with their words, which I really adore. I mean, Virgos have so much to teach. This guy, on the other hand, would cuss all the time and say WEIRD things. Like "Hey the next time you're in your meeting....you should say "FU** you Depends wearing only ba$tard..kiss my a$$".


Yeah, right, like I am really going to say that to the company CEO. LOL..or he would say "I have gun...anyone comes near my house I will freaking kill them..yeah". Like Beavis and Butthead merged into one human being.

Has anyone met anyone like that? Is this a Mars Singleton thing?

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PhantasmMysteria
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posted November 05, 2003 06:21 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello lovelies,
I have had some unusual attractions/ relationships myself. It seems that I never attract any Air signs (except the occasional Gemini or Aqua friend), but the majority of my love interests have been either Water or Earth Signs. For a time, the vast majority of people I considered my close friends were all Sun Sign Pisces (where my Moon resides, which does make sense, I suppose). But the best romantic relationships I have had are with those earthy Taurean boys. Again, I suppose this makes sense, as my Mars (chart ruler) and Venus are both in Virgo. Taurus helps to ground me in a very positive way, because I do have a lot of Air in my chart, and I can get really flighty... sometimes downright scatterbrained LOL.

------------------
"Our generation has had no Great War, no Great Depression.
Our Great War is the Spiritual War. Our Great Depression is our lives."
~Tyler Durden, Fight Club~

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Aphrodite
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posted November 05, 2003 08:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
haha pidaua,

that's a crazy virgo you know with uranus in the 1st house out of control!

this is a first hearing about one like that. if he were my friend, i would be SO tempted to do something to put him in his place. but i think sags are the masters in matters like this.

good night!

a.

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theFajita3
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posted November 05, 2003 09:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I go thru phases of my life where I am encountered by different signs. Right now I am meeting tons of aries. I wonder if I am supposed to get some drive from them or something that I am lacking and needed to learn about that. oh and I am meeting and have been meetings a lot of sags too.

I hardly ever meet an Aquarius! Just Oxychick is the only one I know

I realize I didn't contribute much to the topic, I just wanted to comment on that.

------------------
Namaste!

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Catnap
unregistered
posted November 06, 2003 06:56 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm an Aquarius with a Taurus Ascendant and my partner is a Taurus with a Gemini Ascendant. Looks peachy, huh?
I agree that the ascendant probably helps with the initial attraction, but gee, I'm reckoning that it takes more than that in the long run................

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cristiname
Knowflake

Posts: 66
From: Earth. Welcome!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 06, 2003 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cristiname     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Asc is at 25Aqu05.

My bf for 9 years, my two very close friends (boy and g) are all born between 11 and 15 of february, which puts their Sun right on my Asc.

one other really close girlfriend is born on 18 of August, with her Sun right on my Desc.

An other really old friend of mine has her Asc right on my Sun, just like me mum.

I've known these people for ages now, still going on - nothing false about it.

cristina

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Aen
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posted November 06, 2003 08:47 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Asc is Virgo/Libra cusp and it totally hides my Cappy Sun. Actually there were a period everyone who seeked me out were Libras. Then Aquas. Now it is Geminis AND Libras. They are fun but soon I want to run. Fast! Or they want to run. Even faster.

All intellectual exchange is great. But that is all.

I think all my longterm close friends are Water/Fire & Earth/Water combinations.

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trillian
Newflake

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From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 06, 2003 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi guys, just weighing in with my fifty cents.

I have Leo rising, with both Uranus in Leo and Pluto in Virgo conjunct that Asc. I've been told I have a tendency to intimidate men, though I can also be quite charming and engaging.

Couple that with a triple Aries/triple Capricorn...

Generally I attract Leo men. The love of my life so far was a triple Gemini with Sag moon and Virgo rising--we could intellectually keep up with each other, which was wonderful. Alas, I have no air in my chart at all, and was ultimately too grounded, compared to all his air. But we are still friends.

Weak men...I am so strong, I can't abide weak men, men who can't stand up for themselves, who have no balls, though they are sometimes attracted to me. I'm talking about strength of character, men who know who they are, and are comfortable with themselves, men who aren't afraid to make the right decision, even if it's the harder decision.

Last year I dated a guy with four personal planets in Sag, including his Mercury trine my own in Aries. You'd think we'd get along famously, but he was so friggin' boooring!

Anyway, this is all a little off subject...

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Twin Lady
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posted November 06, 2003 10:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Boy, can I relate to this one.

With my Pisces Ascendant squaring my Gemini Sun, it has often happened (at least with the opposite sex, that is) that the first impression has been this sweet, gentle, adoring "damsel in distress" who needs rescuing. I have attracted more Leo and Virgo men than any other signs...Leo wanting to be the knight in shining armor and sweeping me off my feet (so romantic!) and Virgo, wanting to take care of and "fix" me, lol.

Then after a while, my Gemini Sun would come out and surprise! The arguing (or should I say debating) ensued. Actually that wasn't too bad, because it kept things interesting, and there was plenty of humor in those debates too.

What caused more trouble though, was when my Scorpio Moon came through. The intensity of my emotional expression eventually proved to be either too threatening or too scary.

But what's a girl to do? For YEARS, I fought down my Scorpio Moon for the sake of the relationship and caused myself much emotional and physical damage, literally. One just doesn't DO that to Scorpio. The challenge, for anyone with Rising and/or Moon signs that are so different from their Suns is to learn how to blend all the energies in a way that is balanced and harmonious, then (I guess?) attract someone secure enough in their own identity to feel comfortable in embracing them. I'm still working on it...

Yet, I admit to needing the Virgos (and Taurus and Capricorn) in my life, since I only have one earth (Venus in Taurus) planet in my chart. I can't really explain it but to say that I feel SAFE with the groundedness and practicality these signs show me. I also need the fire because I've only got one fire planet (Pluto in Leo), and I both admire and am inspired by the boldness and confidence of the fire signs.

Just my two cents.

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Aphrodite
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posted November 06, 2003 11:00 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Weak men...I am so strong, I can't abide weak men, men who can't stand up for themselves, who have no balls, though they are sometimes attracted to me. I'm talking about strength of character, men who know who they are, and are comfortable with themselves, men who aren't afraid to make the right decision, even if it's the harder decision."

Trillian, that's the same with me too! Where can I find more men like that? I only know one. I know it's a high standard, but we're so gosh darn strong that it doesn't come to a surprise to be a little, I don't know, disappointed to see how there are those who are terribly fearful. Yet I date them anyway. :-/

The Aries men I have encountered were strong, but a wee bit too naive and hopefully optismistic for a Capricorn Moon. Something infantile, not to be taken as a bad thing, does this make sense?

The Leos I have met like super high maintenance & trendy women . . . of which I am not in those categories. I am *Super Nerd* in Ann Taylor clothes LOL.

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