posted February 10, 2004 11:26 AM              

starflower - I did a quick search on google, and this may be a good place to start: http://www.chaosastrology.net/chaosarticles.cfm

posted February 10, 2004 01:17 PM            

How about love? Can you 'prove' that it exists? To steal from Carl Sagan, do you love your mother? Then prove it.

Trouble is, what you do to 'prove' it, wouldn't necessarily 'prove' it to another mother. Like astrology, these things are subjective. Ergo, proof does not exist.

Psych classes love to ask students "prove that you exist." How does one do it?

Everything that exists is true and real. Right? But how do you prove it?

There are many people who would say to you "Why do so many people refuse to accept Christ as their Saviour? So many intelligent people deny the significance of Christianity..." Or insert any other religion or scienc into that sentence.

posted February 10, 2004 09:46 PM              

What is an example of how they deny astrology's significance?

It seems they would have more trouble DISproving its significance these days.

.gloria

posted February 10, 2004 11:21 PM              

I suppose the worst criticism, and the least called for, comes from a few medical scientists who use arguments that are no longer scientifically valid and are unworthy of their own status in the world of science. But scientists generally love to argue, and it is rare that a group of scientists is in complete accord, even when talking about their own field. I always wonder why some scientists are so reluctant to study astrology, yet are so ardent in refuting it. For instance, if they feel it is a superstition, long dead and buried, why bother to bring it up so frequently? If it is nonsense, then someone should examine it thoroughly and come up with a valid thesis against it. I defy any thinking person to study astrology seriously for a year and still maintain that it is not valid. Astrology is based on the laws of the universe that are the very laws of science, of action and reaction, and of cause and effect.

~ Sybil Leek, My Life in Astrology, 1972

I'm working on memorizing this one to spit out at the appropriate time...

"...the simple and easy but beautiful theory, which presumes that the same sympathetic power which causes iron and magnet to attract each other...the same occult influence which drives the frantic herd about the pastures; which provokes the gadfly to vex the steed;…which seizes with fits of temporary madness the owl and raven; which affects the brains of the maniac or which circulates through all living nature, pervading all disquieting all;...this universal sympathy or instinct (for all instinct is sympathy) is neither more nor less than the secret but powerful influences of the heavenly bodies."

~ Raphael

and last but not least, a poem I wrote a few months ago, it seems on topic...

Gentle, Johnny

Every astrologer has a friend
The skeptical, scientific type
Who doubts and questions
Yet I say, lo, his mind is ripe!

He’ll cite you Bacon and Newton
To bring wise you to heel
And refuse to simply learn or test
Or make impassioned appeal.

Don’t fret or frown
Or turn him down
Perhaps you were there once too
Until your birthchart beckoned
To be reckoned
By someone
Namely, you.

So have your laugh
Then run his chart
To tell him why he is
Like this or that
Yet don’t look now
The issue’s only his.

You may not make all aspects clear
Yet have little concern and zero fear
Cite Llewellyn George, then back away
For a pit of vipers he may be
Remind him gently
Transcendentally
Despite the bogies of his mind
That this shall set him free.

Then scoff he may, and groan he might
You needn’t ponder wrong nor right
Do ignore the thumping of his head
Against his wall at night in bed.

Plant the seed, and watch it grow
You needn’t care how high nor low
The ivy of his learning climbs
Or if he falls or fails at times.

Be there and share
Your thoughts and when
He comes around a bit,
It’s time to stay
Not walk away
Do help him make it fit.

His mind’s expanding
The gods, commanding
While you get paid by others
As archetypes bump and grind
Inside his fertile mind
While you seed and feed
Your sisters and your brothers.

For Astrology
Is a way to see
All you have to do is look
You’ll see it clear in black & white
In any decent book.

Study for a year or less
Then tell your plans to confess
For I shall hear your plea, I will,
Shall place it on my windowsill
Shall water it in the morning sun
Then we will surely have our fun.

Should you not trust
What maybe you've heard
Just relax and take one word
Slowly at a time
You may set it to symbol,
Couplet or rhyme
An experience sublime.

It's a sin
If someone won't let you in
On their astro-conversation
Just say, "Hey, yo,
I'm with it, you know,"
Then name your Sun
And you've begun
To be the best in the nation!

Listen, listen
Talk, talk, talk
Read and measure
Gather the treasure
Respect the number
Until you slumber
Visited by a vision
Of She, the Cyprian.

Ha, it lives, this
Art and Science
Ancient does!
It underpins
All that is
And all that ever was.

Slowly you evolve, and friends
Evolve as slow as you
Patience and guidance
You must bring to
The unenlightened few.

You’re not the first
Nor shall be the last
To swallow this big pill
Yet forcing it down
By wince or frown
Will give a gain of nil.

A little here, a little there
Until it’s in the soul
To animate another life
To fill and make it whole.

posted February 11, 2004 09:34 AM            

Sorry about the esoteric slant earlier...can't help it, it's part of the way I am.

You know, to expound on something proxie said, people usually want simple answers to their problems, and astrology is generally complex. And yes, as proxie said, very nuanced. I think really good astrologers also have a 6th sense about the art and science of astrology.

posted February 12, 2004 12:54 PM              

http://www.jornal-astrologia.com/article_annemassey.htm

from this fabulous page of articles:

http://www.jornal-astrologia.com/articles.htm

I don't use the phrase "believe in" astrology, I say that I accept it. It's true, it's better to take out the concept of "believe" or "not believe". I tell people who say that they do not believe that neither do I, yet I do know that with or without their opinion, and with or without mine, the Planets will continue to move and to affect us, as it is with all Universal Laws, they operate whether or not we even contemplate them, believe in them, accept them, etc. The Planets will gift us and bitchslap us no matter what our little minds can or cannot conceive