posted February 29, 2004 02:22 PM              

Don't get me wrong. It's good NOT to be overly dependent. But perhaps it's why there's this trend of wanting to chastise religion and so forth, because it is a sign of "weakness" to need something "out there".

Even Jesse Ventura once said religious people need a crutch, and it is a sign of weakness.

THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS posting, and I'm NOT making a religious inquiry. It's just a side note.

REPEAT - I am NOT asking a religious question here.... (I know exactly where I stand with that & have no desire to instigate a controversial debate - start a new thread if that's where you want to go).

To continue, my curiousity has to do with a society which no longer sanctions women who act dependant, and which I believe may cause women who NEED support and help in their lives as a natural and welcome recourse, to become manipulative about it in order to avoid embarrassment.

Anyone following me thusfar?

It's like there is a duality. "I am woman hear me roar" vs. "I am woman and I didn't mean to scare you with my roar".

Men are more confused than ever with their roles within a relationship... we are giving out contradictory signals. Young girls are making very IMPULSIVE decisions to get breasts implants, in the only seemingly viable alternative to remaining independant from men, while at the same time have power over them.

Lots of men out there who are single are very weary of getting involved, once again, with a woman (young or old) who's given them mixed signals. Who appeared one way in the beginning, and who ended up sucking their savings and livelihood from them.

Could I be touching upon any common thread here with the points I bring up?

This is personal to me right now because I've never been more ready to be married. And after so many years of whipping the norm, my old-fashioned vulnerable side is ready to be loved and protected and it's no where in sight. What have we done!!??

NO... the question I have here is what can I do? I'm cognizant of the fact that needing someone is no longer a weakness for me. I've exceeded my gain for independence.

And looking at this astrologically, what in my chart would make "needing" so controversial? What signs or influences put out contradictory messages, needing to need and all the while appearing as if not?

You'll find my birth info in my Profile...

It's like one of you said, I need to put out the vibes. But as soon as I do, I begin to sulk...

Thanks...

.gloria

posted March 03, 2004 11:58 AM              

I've had a quick look at your chart, and I've an idea but I'd like to ask some questions, if that is ok with you to see if I'm on the right track?

posted March 03, 2004 01:26 PM              

Thanks so much for taking a look -

* What was your home-life like growing up? *
Confusing. Lack of communication. Lots of cold shoulders, silent treatments, selfishness and criticism. Emotionally abusive.

* Did you parents constantly bicker and argue? *
No. I wish they would because they held everything in. Were uncommunicative with each other as well. You could cut the resentment in the air with a knife. They acted like a happy couple in front of everyone else which made me puke.

* Were you made to feel as if you were never good enough, that whatever you did wasn't right? *
!!!YES!!!

* Was your mother an emotional person and your father more contained and distant? *
My mother was rather distant herself, but my father was always contained & distant. Yes. When my mother drank she became more emotional, and she "lost it" a few times wailing her fists at me. She's emotionally unstable.

* Did you want to feel close to your father but he pushed you away in a super-critical way? *
!!!YES!!!

* Did you feel unsafe or unwanted? *
!!!YES!!!

To this day.

posted March 03, 2004 02:42 PM              

I am curious. Can you please tell me what specific aspects you picked out in Gloria's chart to allow for your descriptions of her childhood and family dynamics?

Gloria,

I have discussed things about my father's cheating ways in other Forums here before, and I have also talked about my relationship with my mother at least once in another Forum here as well.

I know about a lot of what you mean where feeling unwanted and unloved in your home is concerned, and I understand all about the lack of acknowledgement and communication that goes on about all of it too.

I have to believe that there is a reason for all of it though, a way that both of us will grow and prosper from it, as well as a way that anyone else will grow and prosper from it if they go through these particular sadnesses in their own lives as well.

So, here's to all of us finding our way out of that darkness and into more light in the future!!!

Love And Light To Everyone!

posted March 03, 2004 05:45 PM              

Thank you for answering my questions. Ok, this is what I feel. I think that its easier for you to generalise about men and women and the genda roles because it helps to take the focus off the very real emotional conflict that I think you have.

I feel that yes, consciously, you want a stable relationship and I think the kind of men you are looking for are the steady type. But I feel that as you meet these men, subconsciously they remind you of your father (or as he came across, not literally). I feel that in a relationship there are times it is natural for you feel intensely, when that happens it scares you because that possibly subconsciously reminds you of your mother and her behaviour. Possibly then you try to modify your behaviour in case you scare your potential partner. Or you go into defensive mode if it seems as if they understand you. I think you are very intuitive which means you understand the men you meet and how to scare them off, and you don't necessarily use the same tactics twice. It may seem as if it happens all of a sudden but deep down I think you know what you are doing. It's scary to go into a relationship when you don't feel that relationships are safe.

It's also possible that if you have someone in your home, you become critical if they do something that doesn't fit in with your idea of how a home should be or something is put in a place you don't put things, and whilst you might not actually say anything, you may give out the vibes of disaproval.

I think I've read that you have been through counselling so you probably have some idea of whether I'm right or not. If you are serious about having a relationship it might be worthwhile to do some more counselling or inner-child work. If I read the transits correctly this would be a good time to do that. I think its possible you are meeting up with people who are pushing your buttons, but this is the opportunity for you to work on some of your beliefs, to talk to the men honestly about how you feel, when you feel. I think if you work through this period then you will meet someone to share your life with in a couple or so years.

I do wish you happiness, and with your courage I have every faith you will find your path.

posted March 03, 2004 06:15 PM              

I don't know that I pick out specific aspects in a chart, I think I see a theme and kind of run with it.

If you look at Astro's chart, it is dominated by a T-Square involving the moon (mother, feelings etc) opposing Saturn (father, restriction, domination etc) conjuncting Jupiter (expansion), which could lighten up Saturn but in this case I feel more like emphasising the coldness. All squaring Mars (have to include Mercury because of its conjuction to Mars). And all of it is exagerated because of Jupiter.

If you look at the houses (here I use the equal house). The moon is in Second in Cancer emphasising security and mothering. Saturn in its own sign of Capricorn which to me again emphasises the need for security (I was thinking emotionally) in 8th all tied in with deep relationships. Mars and Mercury in Scorpio (intensity) in the 5th.

Which just made me feel that security is important but wasn't available and with Neptune also conjuncting mercury, communication was and can be a problem. 5th is the house of creativity and fun but because of the square to Saturn much more difficult to achieve.

But as in all things what seems like insurmountable difficulties becomes our greatest strength once we get to grips with it all.

posted March 03, 2004 08:26 PM              

The things you brought up are all 100% deserving of my full attention. The work I've been doing recently is becoming aware of all the techniques I'm using to "hide", and in the last few days, I've been eerily aware of the vulnerable lonely person hiding.

As Natasia and others have been so astute in bringing to my attention, I'm not going to get what I need unless I'm honest about what I need.

But since in my early years, showing this vulnerability still went unnoticed and unacknowledged, I guess I gave up.

It's very uncomfortable to feel this vulnerable, but all the work I've done thusfar has at the same time allowed me to feel confident enough to not sabotage myself this time. So this is good.

I still find myself using various methods of distraction. Finding myself like a clown hiding its tears, making everyone else laugh, and remaining misunderstood.

But I'm on the verge of reaching a practical balance, where as years ago, the exposure would have been too much.

I have a question regarding Equal House. No one has ever used that to look at my chart or houses. I think I even tried to do that on astro.com just the other day, but none of the positions changed.

From what you said, it seemed it could be me too. I want to check it out more. What next?

Thanks so so so much...