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Author Topic:   Is Seduction Ethical?
sthenri
unregistered
posted April 25, 2004 09:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is Seduction, when planned ahead, ethical?

When a couple is together and one plans ahead of time to act seductively, would you consider that a loving act? What you have brought along a bottle of wine on a picnic with the sole purpose of getting your partner drunk, is that ethical? How much honesty is needed in a relationship and do you think being dishonest at the start destroys the relationship?

Planning on taking advantage of any vulnerabilities your partner has, is that ethical? Just to get him or her in a sexy mood? Does it matter if there is a purpose or is it wrong just to see and test? Why does it feel wrong to me?

Thanks, Natasha
Taurus Sun 6th house
Cancer Moon/8th house

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astro junkie
unregistered
posted April 25, 2004 10:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Natasha -

Believe me DAWLIN'... I understand exactly what you are saying. It's an old Mae West kind of karma Taurus' (& Taurus Rising) have to deal with in this life time.

Get all dolled up and stand in front of the mirror. Now, repeat after me:

"Why don'tcha come up and see me sometime?"

Did you do it????

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astro junkie
unregistered
posted April 25, 2004 10:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
... Watch out! You need a special license to drive that thing ...

* wink *

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 25, 2004 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suppose that entirely depends on motive. If I intend to seduce someone AWAY from someone else, then I would categorize that as unethical. However, if I am with a person whom I plan on getting intimate with, a part of the 'game' is discerning how to 'get under their skin' to tease. To tempt. To peel away layers of a deliciously sweet onion, and share the core.
Through charm and attraction and a mutual reciprocation. Not through plying with alcohol to rid inhibitions, but to ply them with the very essence of desire and fun to get past their personal inhibitions.
It is fun. It is a game, a dance with many steps.... treading on feet or lifting in grand twirls that has gone on since time unknown.
*AAAHHHHH!!!*

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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 25, 2004 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seducing is one thing.
Seducing through the use of mind-altering substances is another thing entirely, to me anyway, even if it's something as simple as a little wine. I certainly don't think all such attempts are made to exploit someone's vulnerabilities or anything like that, though. Also, if you are the seducee, then it is also your choice to refuse any substances/beverages offered to you if you are uncomfortable with them.
Is it ethical? I can't speak for all situations, but I wouldn't do it nor would I appreciate it being done to me. There are many different issues to consider, though. Are both people consenting adults who both enjoy drinking wine (or whatever)? Do they both desire to achieve intimacy? If the answers to these questions is yes, then I think both the intended seducer and seducee are reasonably capable of deciding/dealing with this situation and choosing to participate or not.
If, for example, the person attempting to be seduced is not very familiar with alcohol or has negative experiences associated with it, and the other person knows that and attempts to exploit that, then I certainly think that is wrong. How can someone say no to something they are not too familiar with (and that is arguably socially acceptable) if it is being offered to them by someone they care for and wish to know better? Also, how can a person who is vulnerable to alcohol because of past experiences say no to it under the same circumstances, considering if they did give in it would more likely be out of trust than anything else? And would they then be in a condition to react appropriately to any attempts at intimacy (which could be either for or against it)?

I'm a Sagittarius (Sun, Mercury, and Neptune), so to me honesty is very, very important in a relationship. I would have (and have had) a lot of trouble remaining in a relationship that I didn't feel was honest or with a person that I didn't think was being honest. Even if their intentions were not negative, I would still have (and have had) a hard time reestablishing the trust once the deception is/has been revealed.
Just my opinion and experiences.

------------------
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi

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astro junkie
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posted April 27, 2004 12:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well? Did you Natasha?

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Aen
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posted April 27, 2004 08:20 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seduction is such a fine game. The tease, the play, the attraction, the getting under the skin... I don't think it is unethical itself, but what are your motives?

Anyway it is funny you asked. I've been thinking about it [i]a lot[i] lately. And came to the sad conclusion that I better risk to scare a person away with my directness than try to seduce one. I don't enjoy the process that much and whenever I'm *winning*, I feel like a complete loser. The pattern has repeated itself, so I guess I should finally learn. I want to BE seduced instead. Right NOW to be precise. (

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Aphrodite
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posted April 27, 2004 08:47 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Natasha,

From one 8th house Moon to another . . . I can say I was thinking about the same issue this morning.

But you know, the other party usually likes it. It's sexier than saying anything at all sometimes.

Enjoy!

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trillian
Newflake

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posted April 27, 2004 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If someone brings a bottle of wine to get me drunk...it's my choice if I drink it. Though one bottle between two people is probably not going to cloud anyone's vision.

Now, if someone puts something in my drink without my knowledge, that changes things drastically.

I think maybe I'm not clear on what you think of as seduction. If my partner knows he wants to make love to me, and devises a special evening of wine and dinner and perhaps some other things to make it lovely...how can I take issue with that? I find nothing unethical about that. But maybe I have misunderstood your question...

Now, here's some food for thought. Once upon a time, I read a quote that stuck with me for years, which I have contemplated now and then. And it perhaps has some relevence to your original question.

"The difference between rape and seduction is...technique."


Now before anyone freaks out and thinks I'm advocating rape...breathe. It's not meant to be so literal.

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Aphrodite
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posted April 27, 2004 09:29 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Trillian,

You've brought up a good line about technique. I like it!

I truly did not intend to mean pleasurable pursuits that makes anyone uncomfortable.

A.

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sthenri
unregistered
posted April 27, 2004 12:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, to answer your question Gloria, No:>

Trillian I understand what you mean,

and rape is very similar to seduction as in it's about one person with a very strong will, and another without a very strong will.

There can't be a seduction unless one person is already vulnerable so the wine is only a prop. Emotionally you have to imagine one already prepared seducee suddenly meeting a strong minded person with a mind to seduce. Then the seducer becomes overcome with feelings of either guilt or desire and acts accordingly.

Is the seducee involved? Sure but the seducee is blameless because the game wasn't to go that far. So a seduction has a conclusion, and it's a bit about power over another with one enjoying it more than the other.

A flirtation is more even.

But Aphrodite you and I know, how much seducees tease and flirt and have every intention of making their desires known but only at the precise time of actual seduction.

it's hard to know when to stop then, and 8th house moons really know how to pull out all the stops in regards to caring and nurturing their partner in a sappy emotional and very safe way. Translation: we know how to make someone feel sexy enough to throw caution away.

How does that leave the seducer feeling afterwards? Guilty, or happy for a time. Then the seducee or another seducee starts up again with teasing and flirting, and saying over and over again, please help me, I am in need.

Could you resist a lovely virgin with the proverbial skirt over the head about to be ravaged? Would that make you want to save him/her or turn you on? Isn't that what a seducer wants?

I sometimes feel the seducee knows whats up.

Natasha

Taurus

Thinking of seducing Gemini male:> or being seduced? I am considered the predator since he has a S.O.

However, who is the meal and who is the victim? Everyone man I've ever met had an S.O. when I met him, everyone I know is hung up on someone else including me??! What does that say about 8th house moons? That we like intruige or are we just confused sexually?

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sthenri
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posted April 27, 2004 12:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wine does help ME though, become more of a predator or meal depending on how you look at it. I am much more confused with wine. Unfortunately I have this habit of linking romance with wine and food.

It's all in my mind but my mind is then easily confused.

Natasha

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astro junkie
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posted April 27, 2004 01:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Natasha -

In the end, you'll find yourself refusing to OVERTHINK this too much. Not sure what aspects caused me to ponder all this as well a while back, but as I've always believed, sex is creative energy. It's like permission to play in the mud when you were two.

The quote::
"The difference between rape and seduction is...technique."

That's an amazing quote. Where did it come from? Who said it?

When I make a connection between the word "technique" and the word "legal", I can certainly begin to see why with our lack of maturity in this regard we'll continue to sell National Enquirer's based on such provocative words as "rape". I believe I found somewhat of a clue as to all this. If you ever read a book called "Lila" it studies issues of "quality".

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Eleanore
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Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 27, 2004 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
and rape is very similar to seduction as in it's about one person with a very strong will, and another without a very strong will.

sthenri
I'm not sure I even wanna' touch that one. It's your opinion, and I understand that, and thanks for sharing. My opinion doesn't necessarily agree with yours. I hope no one thinks it was pointless to point it out, but that is kind of a blanket statement, and it could possibly be misconstrued or seem hurtful to someone with personal experience in the matter. Sorry, I had to open my big old Sagittarius mouth about it.

However, I do think that, in regards to your recent posts, you maybe are having a personal struggle between what you may want to do (or have done to you) and feelings of guilt or regret (morality). I think you should either really consider why these feelings enter into the situation for you personally from any experience you already have, or get out there and try again, and see if those feelings still crop up. If it's a continous cycle, maybe there is something in your consciousness (or sub/super) that is causing those feelings and it might prove valuable to hear/analyze the personal message you are receiving. Hope it all works out well for you, and that you have a clear conscience and a great time!

------------------
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi

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astro junkie
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posted April 27, 2004 02:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Natasha -

I agree wholeheartedly with Eleanor's keen observation. For all the extremely positive insights you bring to people here regularly, we know it won't be such a huge jump for you to get what she's saying. I still just want to picture you in front of the mirror saying, "Why don'tcha come up and see me sometime... Boyzzzzz..."

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trillian
Newflake

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From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 27, 2004 02:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
gloria, I honestly can't recall to whom the quote is attributed. Darn it!

Years ago in college, it was posted on a bulletin board in our college radio station, taken from a magazine. It always stuck in my mind, though I wish I remembered who said it.

It's provocative, no?

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trillian
Newflake

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posted April 27, 2004 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Natasha, you can't rape the willing.
Go for it girl.

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PlayfulPonderingFishMoon
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posted April 27, 2004 07:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, it must just be my own Mars In Sag, the planet of pursuit interspersed with the sign of truth, but....


No way would I 'seduce' anybody with a bottle of wine. I don't think that I'd even necessarily 'oooh and coddle' to them just for the specific purpose of getting them into bed either.

If I want to take that step, then I would say to them straight out, "I want to take things to the next level here...."

I am not interested in connecting with someone just because their inhibitions have been momentarily loosened through artificial means such as alcohol, nor am I interested in seducing them with sweet words and such that make them feel vulnerable to the moment or something either....

And I would also never seduce anyone who already had a S.O. in the first place, unless she became his EX S.O. pretty damn quick, but that's just me, I guess.


Again, I like open and upfront honesty in all situations, and I would want this other woman to 'know the score' about all of this BEFORE I made 'my score with him' lol.

Good Luck with whatever happens anyway though!


------------------
"Somewhere once I had read a description of eternity. 'If there were a mile high mountain of granite, and once every ten thousand years, a bird flew past and brushed it with a feather, by the time that mountain was worn away, only a fraction of a second would have passed in the context of eternity.'"

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pixelpixie
Newflake

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From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 27, 2004 08:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Que sera, sera...
Whatever will be, will be....

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Eleanore
Moderator

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From: Okinawa, Japan
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posted April 27, 2004 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
trillian
That quote was first uttered by that voluptuous, beautiful bombshell Mae West.

------------------
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi

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astro junkie
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posted April 27, 2004 08:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Pixel...

You can go left, you can go right, you'll end up at the same place eventually...

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 27, 2004 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know what they say~
"Three lefts make a right."

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astro junkie
unregistered
posted April 27, 2004 08:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now if I can only open up this damn wine bottle. I'm even using a girlie cork screw thing...

Where are the men when you need them!!!!

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sthenri
unregistered
posted April 28, 2004 10:01 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes truth and desire, I have Mars in Sag/1st house too, so I know that energy!

I feel like Capricorn Janis Joplin on days like this, and now I know why. She had moon in Cancer in the 5th, and Venus in Aqua in the 12th, with Mars in Sag, and Mercury in Aqua in the 12th. Ascendant was Cancer,
so similar to many of my aspects.

Her moon is conjunct Uranus exactly the same aspect I have with every man I have fallen in love with, and her saturn is in the 4th close to her venus. That's a tough one for feeling loved.

So I tend to fall for men who have a huge desire to love but can't feel love themselves.

Here is her chart http://www.kozmikhoroscopes.com/joplin1.htm

A great inspiration is Bob Marley's chart-with Venus in Aries in the 4th, and Moon in Scorpio he did his best to express to the world what he felt, his feelings were his canvas. And he loved humanity, what a great way to express.

His is a positive example of a Scorpio moon. http://www.mooncatsastrology.com/webpages/quintiles2.htm

I have a lot in common with him too so I veer between either personalities as my favorite.

Today I feel like Turtle Blues

Ah, I'm a mean, mean woman,
I don't mean no one man, no good, no.
I'm a mean, mean woman,
I don't mean no one man, no good.
I just treats 'em like I wants to,
I never treats 'em, honey like I should.
Oh, Lord, I once had a daddy,
He said he'd give me everything in sight.
Once had a daddy,
Said he'd give me everything in sight.
Yes, he did.
So I said, "Honey, I want the sunshine,
You take the stars out of the night.
Come on and give 'em to me, babe, 'cause I want 'em right now."
I ain't the kind of woman
Who'd make your life a bed of ease, ha ha ha ha!
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm not the kind of woman, no,
To make your life a bed of ease.
Yeah, but if you, if you just wanna go out drinkin', honey,
Won't you invite me along, please.
Oh, I'll be so good to ya babe, yeah!
Whoa, go on!
I guess I'm just like a turtle
That's hidin' underneath its horny shell.
Whoa, whoa, oh yeah, like a turtle
Hidin' underneath its hard-ass shell.
But you know I'm very well protected
I know this ******* life too well.
Oh! Now call me mean, you can call me evil, yeah, yeah,
I've been called much worser things around,
Honey, don't ya know I have!
Whoa, call me mean or call me evil
I've been called much worser things, all things around,
Yeah, but I'm gonna take good care of Janis, yeah,
Honey, ain't no one gonna dog me down.
Alright, yeah.

Natasha
Taurus

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WychOfAvalon
unregistered
posted April 28, 2004 03:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This thread is a little scary to me. I just keep thinking "Don't look to sexy and seduce your husband away from his video game because you're inhibiting his free will". Don't wear makeup because it's unfair! Throw away the lengerie! Don't wear a lowcut shirt and show off some cleavage because it might lower someone else's inhibitions.

*blink*

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