posted May 02, 2004 05:14 PM              

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So this year for my science class we had to do a year-long science project. I chose to do mine on the validity of astrological signs and their correspondence to personality. However, for my introduction I would like a short description of how experts decide each sign's traits.
Could someone here either direct me to a passage in Linda Goodman's "Sun Signs" that explains it, or post an explanation that they have written? And if you do post your own passage, may I have permission to quote you in the report portion of my science project?
Thank you in advance. :-)

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posted May 02, 2004 08:29 PM              

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If I may, have you ever read Linda Goodman? You'll find all her books in your local library. Can't do your research for you, now can we? Do you know how many books she has and how many pages are in each book?

Good thing you have a year!

You'd be better off asking for any good links to Web sites any of us may have collected throughout the YEARS.

And also, here's something that would make your "show and tell" day fun:
www.astrofaces.com/astrofaces

I'm sure you'll make yourself nice and cozy up in here, but take your time cuz we've been studying this for many years and you never know it all...

Welcome to the journey...

*dastardly laugh*

Just kidding...

.gloria

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posted May 02, 2004 10:02 PM              

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No, I haven't read *all* of her books - not nearly enough time. I used "Sun Signs" to compile a list of personality traits for each sign, as my mother already owned it. And for all the links I've found, there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut method to astrology. Nothing replicable, nothing concrete. If you would rather not answer my question directly, fine, but would you at least point me in the direction of an astrological site or book that you find accurate and well-researched that I could quote? Thank you. :-)

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Posts: 4783
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 02, 2004 10:14 PM            

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Welcome!

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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posted May 02, 2004 10:22 PM              

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Sorry to disappoint you, bookworm, but there is no clear-cut method to astrology. Astrology is an Art and Science at the same time. If you don't believe me, ask Randall
AS for AJ, she was only pointing out the fact that we are all STUDENTS here, some way ahead than others, but all of us still LEARNING...

Welcome to Lindaland!

Oh, 'when the time is right'. Bookworm, check this out. www.typelogic.com

Thank you, Dorkus!

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posted May 02, 2004 10:50 PM              

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Thanks, Randall. :-)

And thank you, gloomy, for giving me a more concise answer. Although I'd only call it science if there *were* a method involved. At the risk of sounding snide, if you're all students, who's the teacher? Surely you're learning this from somewhere...
In any case, I chose to quote part of the introduction in "Sun Signs", near the very beginning. Oh, and while I'm here, a somewhat off-topic question about the book. On page 284, Linda Goodman claims that "when a Scorpio dies, there will be a birth in the family within the year before or the year after. It happens at least ninety-five percent of the time." Does anyone have a scientific cite for this statement? It has no bearing on my science project, it just struck me as odd, and my skeptical side was intrigued.
As always, thanks in advance for your answers. :-)

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Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
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posted May 03, 2004 12:41 AM            

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I imagine the comment about Birth and Death was in relation to the fact that Scorpio (the eighth house)is ruled by Pluto, the planet of regeneration, death, rebirth and deep psychological changes. In any metaphysical art, it takes some measure of faith to produce tangible results. Even science that we know to 'work' doesn't meet all the criteria for the scientific method. Applied logic, psycholocial reasoning and faith. Alot of mathematics involved in calculating everything.
I assume you know the basics of Sun signs. How precise can you get though? I mean, it is hard to define things that work. It has proven invaluable in relation to my own life.. But to define it is difficult. How do you measure the 'magnetic' forces or pulls that each planet projects, and how it relates to our position or blueprint at the time we were born, or it's continued influence. You can explain ways to interpret certain angles... ( and this is after thousands of years of applied research)
It works.
But try to describe how it works.
Good luck in your undertaking.

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posted May 03, 2004 12:44 AM            

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Check out www.bobmarksastrologer.com

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From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 03, 2004 01:18 AM            

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hi,

I think of astrology as a mathematical science (I know it sounds funny) But because everything revolves around aspects (numbers) and gravitational pull. A good place to start is with an almanac and watch the moon. High tides and low tides, planting and harvesting etc. Fishermen and farmers understand this (even if they know nothing of astrology) Before you can even begin to understand the planets you need to understand the moon (our closest satelite) and how closely its "phases" effect us. I don't think this is a complete answer but hopefully it will give you an idea of where to start. If you want a good grade I wouldn't quote me, but you have my permission anyway. Good Luck

P.S I just reread your post and see that I didn't answer your question about astrology and the correlation to personality and signs but I'm going to go ahead and post this just in case there is something there you can use. If you get stuck and have a specific question, post back and we'll go from there.

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From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 03, 2004 07:49 AM            

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The calculations are unarguably pure mathematical science. The interpretations are more art, as they leave a lot of leeway, and intuition plays a big role with some astrologers as well.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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posted May 03, 2004 06:58 PM              

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Thank you all in your replies so far. An especially big thanks to Pixie - that's a great link, and I think I'm going to quote it in my report. I think I'm about done here, so another thank you (I'm getting excessive, aren't I? :-P) to everyone that answered.

And in case anybody's interested. Of all the subjects, only about 11% had their personality match their birth date. So I won't be betting any cash based on astrology any time soon... although it is better than the 8.3% of picking a sign at random and seeing if it matches theirs. But just barely. :-p

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posted May 03, 2004 07:33 PM              

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Hi b00kworm66,

What level of education are you at right now? I'm just curious, because I want to know what sources of information you have been consulting and how sophisticated your project is going to be. If you are looking at published journal articles (yes, there are tons, but you just have to have access to them), you have to look at what methods are they using (big one, huge one) and who the heck they are using as subjects. Just some random thoughts.

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posted May 03, 2004 07:53 PM              

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Hooked, I am but a high school student. So I personally haven't got access to labs and complex computer survey things and thousands of people to survey.
My resources so far (and I'm open to more if you've got any suggestions) are "Sun Signs," Astrology on the Web (http://www.astrologycom.com/astrol3.html), and the previously-posted Bob Marks site. Most of my project is scoring and analyzing the survey I passed out to the science classes. Have you got any journal articles I should have a look at before I finish up my report?

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From: ON Canada
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posted May 03, 2004 08:18 PM            

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B00kw0rm~.. Thank you for the thank you ( now THAT was excessive on my part)
I find many similarities between people I know matching their Sun signs. If not their Suns, then, if I know their chart ( there will usually be something that stands out to me as 'wrong' or supressed energy.. but if I know the rest of their chart, the reason is usually perfectly clear. And of course, astrology indicates, it does not 'make it so'.
You would be amazed yet, at the surplus of astrology related motivations and crazy synchronistic experiences that happen once you unlock the mystery surrounding this incredible fusing of art and science ( for lack of a better term) Maybe metaphysical interpretations. After all, there wouldn't be so many intelligent, interseting people into this if there weren't 'something' to it.
Why don't you stay awhile, even after your project's finished.. if you were inclined at all, in the first place, to do this project, it is almost certain that you could learn a bit by opening yourself up to it. The unfortunate thing about Astrology, is that it is so interpretive. But seeing it in action, is believeing it, and I know belief in something is a leap of faith. But sometimes you just have to jump, with eyes half closed, to see the colours dancing on the way down, and see what stays when you land on your feet.
Every once and a while, there will be a learning thread here that will knock your socks off. For instance, in guerssing people's sun moon, asc. signs, you'd be amazed at the accuracy some talented people here have with picking off people's major influences.
In terms of the ascendant, or rising sign, it is often the first thing people see of you.... so if you don't seem like a Virgo, yet you are a Virgo, perhaps the ascendant is in Sagittarius, or something quite different in manifstation, and not until you really know the person, will their 'true colours' shine.
Go to www.astro.com and if you know your time of birth, type it in and get a free chart, as well as a free interpretation. Seewhat jives with you.. you never know, I'll bet it will open your eyes to the trueness inherent in this art.

Are you an Aquarius? Maybe with Taurus asc?

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posted May 03, 2004 09:37 PM              

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Taurus, with Moon in Gemini and ascendant in Aries. Sorry. :-)

And I'm still skeptical about such interpretations, as it seems like they all say vague things that everybody would be pleased to hear, and because humans are self-centered creatures, would think of themselves in those same positive terms. Like, from my interpretation from that site? I am evidently "warm-hearted and amorous." Which I'm really not. But how many people are going to deny it?
Even the more negative attributes, people aren't going to deny. Also from the interpretation, they list being critical of others. That hits a bit closer to home for me, but I know very few people who wouldn't describe themselves as critical at one time or another. Even the most passive, agreeable people would look back. "Well, that one time when so-and-so was being so stubborn, I guess I kind of snapped at them..."
Therefore looking for ways to mold their life around the analysis, rather than the analysis being molded so carefully around their life. If that makes any sense. And IMHO. :-p

Wow, that was really long-winded for me. Sorry. :-p

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posted May 03, 2004 09:50 PM              

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For all I can tell you are very passionate in your writings. Which is exactly what an Aries Asc. would be like

By the way there was that wonderful thought in one of Linda's books, I think 'Love Signs' "...what if WE are the ones to actually make the stars move"

I don't promise that this is the exact wording but it was something in that sense.Maybe somebody else can find it and post it for you.

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posted May 03, 2004 10:00 PM              

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Pixel - you deserve a lot of credit for narrowing down the characteristics of this person's energy and temperament. Just had to shoot this off to you and only you - it didn't go unnoticed, and I knew where you were coming from.

.gloria

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posted May 03, 2004 10:45 PM              

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Hey nothing wrong with being in high school b00kworm66, just trying to get more details so I can figure out what to tell you.

As far as the survey you are passing out in class, you dont have enough "power" (people to survey) to see any significant results. That may be something you can mention in your project.

I have an idea..Can you possibly add qualitative data along with your survey? I think for a topic like astrology it's ver appropriate. You could say "these are the results of the survey I submitted to the class, and this is what I found...However, here are some personal interviews I have done that show how/why/to what extend people incorporate astrology into their lives".

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posted May 03, 2004 11:02 PM              

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Gloomy - hehe, yes, very passionate in all of my writing. :-) So that part's accurate.

And Hooked, sorry if I gave off the impression that I surveyed only my class. I arranged with my science teacher to have it passed out to each of her periods - about 160 students in total. Which still doesn't compare to formal science research, but I figured it would be at least somewhat representative of the data.
And regarding the qualitative data, that's a really good idea, that would work very nicely at fleshing out some portions of my report so far. So... anybody want to describe to me how astrology has affected their lives? (Unless y'all are sick of me and I should just go bother some other message board now. :-P)

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From: ON Canada
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posted May 04, 2004 12:00 AM            

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Hey, no apologies here.. I got Taurus right.. and I got Air right. (You're Gemini instead of Aquarius)
I should've guessed Aries right off the bat too.. but ah, who's 100%.
I find it telling though, that you couldn't even comment on how close I was.. and I was.

But in terms of everyone liking what they read in terms of astrological interpretations.. I too, don't like to be pegged and narrowed, especially when my Sun sign is the most vicious, apparently.
Guess which one I am.....(no peeking) and would you really want to present yourself as such, knowing people automatically assume the worst of you, when you aren't really vicious at all? I agree that social conditioning is relative.. If I believe my Sun sign is supposed to be a particular way, then I would mold myself to fit those particular characteristics. BUT. That doesn't expain why I was like that as a child... and grew into them voraciously, and why my friend and I , who I didn't know three years ago, who happens to share many similar chart attributes as myself, have many paralells in our lives.. many mnore than co-incidence. We also share the same temperment and likes/dislikes. I understand her better than most, and vice versa. Before I knew much about astrology , I could look at it in terms of a Universe's gift of friendship ( and I still do, really) But now I understand that unconscious drives and our similarities have alot to do with how/when we were born.. no matter that we have been raised so differently.
Some things you have to experience tro believe in. Sometimes you have to walk on a ledge and try to describe it in any way you can.

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posted May 04, 2004 12:29 AM              

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Yeah, I did absolutely nothing in the survey regarding the elements, I've got to admit, so I have very little knowledge of them. (Read: I know Taurus is earth, and that's it.)

And most vicious sign... hm. Scorpio? They don't sound like the most pleasant people, although that may be previous prejudice on my part. Or Aries, perhaps? God of war; being stereotyped as vicious would make sense.

And I agree that there are some things that you just need to experience, without regard to logic or science or the rest of it. However, since this is all for a *science* project.... :-)

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posted May 04, 2004 12:46 AM            

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Well, if you did no elements, then it cannot possibly be as involved as you say.( or that it needs to be.)
That is the basics of the basics, and so important.By dividing, we actually come togther....
Aries is the baby of the zodiac.. Karmically representing the infant. First house-the you of you.. how you present yourself, you as you relate to your environment.(skip a few) Leo represents the 'teenager'... you've learned the lessons inherent in each (karmic) vibration ( it is quite esoteric, but easy to follow when you allow your mind to go with it, as it does make sense.) So Leo, as a teenager, is once agan as the Leo individual sees the world in terms of all the things he's learned, and where he seeks pleasure.. once again, back to selfish.... but on a knowledgeable level... yet not through... there is still an innocence, and a charm... (Fifth house.. rules Pleasure... Sex, Children, fun, relaxation etc ~ Think a big luxuriously languid, sensual Lion basking in the Sun's radiance.){Sun-Leo's ruler} All the way to Pisces... the culmination of all the lessons, with some powerful weight and knowledge to bear.. an old soul.. psychic, intuitive, caring compassionate.. knowing the full scope.. including the unconscious desires that lead us. Neptune---watery depths revealed.. either murky or crystal clear.. often shrouded in the mystery of the deep.

*FIRE*
Aries~Cardinal
Leo~Fixed
Sagittarius~Mutable

*EARTH*
Taurus~Fixed
Virgo~Mutable
Capricorn~Cardinal

*AIR*
Gemini~Mutable
Libra~Cardinal
Aquarius~Fixed

*WATER*
Cancer~Cardinal
Scorpio~Fixed
Pisces~Mutable

~~~~~~~~~~~~The Basics~~~~~~~~~

Do you need to know what the elements represent?
Do you need to know what the qualities mean?
The oppositions? The Trines/sextiles/squares/conjunctions?

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posted May 04, 2004 06:36 PM              

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Oh good, a pop quiz...
Fire - energy
Earth - material desires
Air - intelligence
Water - emotional stuff

cardinal - creativity
fixed - determination
mutable - changes

All that I'd learned while researching previously, but I had to go and look the oppositions and the rest of it up, as I'd not paid much attention to them previously... so, all in all, that's 2 out of the 3. That's a D... I think I just failed. :-p

And actually, no, the experiment wasn't *complex,* per se. It was just time-consuming. (Three months to score the surveys, ack.) I just did the sun signs, as it's something that nearly everyone knows off the top of their head, which is more than can be said for the rest of the nuances about astrology. One could, of course, argue that I'd misrepresented all of astrology entirely by narrowing down the specifications, or that it wouldn't be accurate without including elements or ascendants or moon signs or whatever else. But... hopefully it would be significant enough to at least get a feel for how astrology matches up with one's personality. Hopefully.

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