posted October 16, 2004 01:42 AM            

Pluto also brings out the worst in those we love.

All my life I felt as though I had this brute of a guardian angel...watching over me..keeping people away. Was that Pluto?

Or was it just the blessing of being Jupiters Daughter?

In any case..I am not happy with either option..Today I saw the worst of my Taurus

So much so, that I may be leaving...his temper is too much..or did my aspects just bring out his worst...so that I may learn fron it?

posted October 16, 2004 03:53 AM            

I think Taurses are under a lot of pressure from these 2 eclipses, but if his temper was violent you should get outta there. I think I recalled that we have the same sun/moon combo, sag/scorp...what degree are you?

Pluto conjuncting your sun, and the upcoming eclipse in your moons sign may be wreaking some havoc! I think part of dealing with others anger is first admitting that you had a part in it, and then going from there. However, if it is abusive and uncalled for, you may have to leave.

hope things get better!

posted October 16, 2004 04:31 AM            

"The bull seldom rushes forward to stomp on your toes. He simply wants to be left alone. Don't disturb him and he'll remain contented. Press him and he becomes obstinate. Shove too hard, tease too much, and be prepared for violent rage. He can go for months and years on end, exhibiting perfect poise and control, inhaling the fragrance of the posies and ignoring the nervous clacking and clucking all around him. Then some unexpected day, a pushy person will pile one straw too many on his broad back. He'll snort, begin to paw the earth, narrow his eyes - and charge. Get out of the way as fast as you can and run for your life! The Taurean temper is seldom displayed impulsively, but when the bull gets mad, he can destroy everything in his path, up to and including Scorpios. Destroy is not the right word. Demolish is better. It may be some time before the dust settles and peace reigns again. Some Taureans have such control that they only charge once or twice a year, if that often. Still, it's best to remember that Taurus usually doesn't get just a little mad or annoyed. If the incident is large enough to rock his normally placid emotions, you can count on blind fury, no ordinary anger."

- Linda Goodman's Sun Signs

From an entire childhood spent with a Taurus father, believe me, that's just how they are. My friend has also flown into some towering rages, but thankfully never at me. It's best to let them storm on their own. They'll eventually get over whatever infuriated them and be quite as lovable as before.

You should also maybe look over the Taurus/Sagittarius section in Love Signs, for specific Bull and Centaur issues. I don't know if you actually did or said anything to cause him to fly into a rage, I mean, only the two of you know that. Being a Sag myself, I know I can sure say things that others find upsetting without even realizing I'm doing it. And I do try so hard to be tactful.

You know, I've never felt like I had a guardian angel keeping anyone away, good or bad. I just always seem to meet the "one" person who can teach me a lesson I have to learn, through pain or through pleasure ... seems kind of random sometimes.

Here's a link on Pluto in the first house:
http://groups.msn.com/interpretations3/plutoin1st1.msnw

Hope it all works out well for you.

posted October 16, 2004 10:32 AM            

I am a Sag (25 degrees) with an Aries moon. My brother is the Sag with the Scorp moon.
I agree that these two eclipses have been nuts and work has been insane for him at this time. It seems he can't catch a break with this psycho supervisor that he has. Since he's in the Army there isn't much he can do.

Eleanore,

Yeah...I have to admit that when I am in a conflict with someone I do needle them to some degree. I can't backdown for some reason. So when we had this blow out - he said something and I wanted to know more, instead of just leaving him alone. I should have realized what you posted...LEAVE THE BULL ALONE LOL

I wasn't as tactful as I could have been and I knew he had issues at work. Sometimes my firey nature just can't back down- which is something that I need to work on.

Thanks for your support and the information.

Pixie...you're a doll...thank you

posted October 16, 2004 11:44 AM              

The Taurus temper tantrum has nothing to do with other people, and more do to with other circumstances-a lack of function in life, leading to a lack of control, leading to frustration.
This frustration can express itself in a thousand ways, it's totally unchanneled,

A Taurus makes a good artist because he/she has all that raw energy, Sag is more refined being a mutable sign. Your boundaries can be managed easily, and that's frustrating for a Taurus to watch, becuase he is trying to keep up with you emotionally. The trick is for Taurus to stay out of other people's emotional lives, and not be dependent on everything around them.

Taurus has to learn how to meditate especially with Mercury in Gemini, to come back to center often. That's why they need alone time with something creative to do, the organized thinking keeps the subconcious mind working, leading to a feeling of fulfillment.

Once a Taurus is fulfilled and calm, he/she can handle anything, but take a bad day, and no meditation, and you will see a tantrum.

I call them tantrums, but that's not negative, that's just how they feel to me, I suddenly feel like banging my head on the wall or screaming. It's not really scary until you know me and see that's not how I usually am.

Maybe he feels you know him so well by now, he is frustrated with trying to control his tantrums around you and now they are taking over??

In that case, insist on some alone time for him, not as a punishment. Meditate for a while on your own, but insist he do the same, then ask him what he was thinking about later.

Taurean types love to be forced to think and organize their thoughts, it's a challenge they need.

Taurus is just like Capricorn in that they need games, chess, sports, anything to engage the mind, and blow off that frustration.
If you know a Capricorn you know how they can get really angry and frustrated sometimes, well Taurus is even more so, only it doesn't come to the surface as much.

At work Taurus is just as competitive as Capricorn, but I think even more so, even more ambitious and dangerous to the ego. The self criticism is incredible. Taurus and Capricorn are both very suspicious of those who are suddenly nice, or who are trying to manage the situation. Taurus prefers the direct approach, such as "Let's calm down" not "You calm down". They are very sensitive to this because they want to be part of the solution, and part of the relationship.

Taurus is very concerned about the WE word, when it starts to become I, and You, it gets frustrating, I start to think, Does this relationship include me??? Why am I being managed and I'm not part of the solution?? So it may seem that nothing you do calms him down. In fact he gets worse, that's because you have get in the same mood he is to prove you care-very childish.

The best approach is "WE are not going to do this right now, we will calm down NOW, I understand and I am listening to you, I relate but you need to distance yourself from that anger right now. Stop feeling and start thinking NOW."

But all that is coming from his ego, not yours, do not ever think you are one criticizing him, no matter what he wants to think or say. He may feel sorry for himself sometimes, don't buy into it, or let him get away with it ever.

In fact Taurus men liked to be called on for their emotional tantrums, be demanding, but never for one minute think you needled him into anything.
Taurus just doesn't want to be abandoned emotionally, which is again childish. He needs to understand he has to get over that fear with you.

If you weren't a strong woman he would not have been attracted, Taurus men LOVE strong women, with Pluto aspects.

Your Taurus has Venus in Aries, he has a lot of Mars energy himself, and that may bring out a part of you that says Hey you need to watch yourself.

He may take exception to that today, but tomorrow his mood is different. Venus in Aries never holds a grudge, or remembers what he did the next day, that is probably frustrating you.

I think Pluto is much more controlled than Mars, and when a man's Venus is ruled by Mars, he expects more tantrums and drama than usual.

While I do not believe in criticism, I would threaten to slap him on the butt in public if he doesn't shape up, tell him he is acting "CHILDISH"

He ought to get that,
I like Sag and Taurus, I think Saggies are the best friends this Taurus ever had. They don't waste time, love life, and tell the truth.

BTW the only thing that really bugs me, is when someone tells the truth one day and it changes the next day. I get too frustrated by the lack of boundaries around that information. My mind can't handle the sudden switches. Maybe he is getting conflicting information from someone at work?

And yes this is a terrible time for Taurus with Neptune in Aquarius, especially when it conjuncts the Moon

posted October 16, 2004 12:24 PM              

"up to and including Scorpios."
does that include sagittarius?? :-P

posted October 16, 2004 02:44 PM            

My Virgo sun/Aries moon sister is married to a Taurus, and he's often a bit much for her. She's such a sweet soul, she doesn't deal with misunderstandings or conflict very well, so they are always having problems. She doesn't needle him, or feed into his little fits, they all seem to be internal, and he has no patience for her trying to help him or be supportive of him. It's probably the bull-headedness that makes him so reluctant to calm down most of the time... perhaps this is what your Taurus is like? You are the sensible Sag, seeing what is what and what the best plan of action is, but if you do try and offer understanding or advice, maybe he is seeing it as something else, and it is not your fault if he is taking it out on you.

If you have gotten to the point where you can't deal with him, if it is not what is good for you , then as pixie said,
''you know what is acceptable to your own life and world''. Do what you need to do for you. You are a strong and lovely lady, you will figure it out

posted October 16, 2004 10:56 PM            

I just remembered we both have Sag Suns and Aries Moons ... and I get like that, too, sometimes, about the needling. I don't mean to not be able to "drop" the issue when my hubby gets upset (Hubby= Aqua Sun/Libra Moon/Scorp Asc) ... my Aries Moon is just very impatient and wants immediate emotional resolution sometimes. That usually makes a bad situation worse for us.

But, really, you're a very intelligent woman and if you feel this is not the right situation for you ... well, always follow your heart.

For all my father's towering rages, he only ever laid a spanking hand on me once, when I was about 10 and trust me, I had done something pretty awful. One tooshie slap, that's all, ever. He never made me feel threatened but he did yell and storm around and basically had a male hissy fit ... a very ugly male hissy fit.

Taurus men are the John-Wayne-Man's-Man prototype. That's just how they are. But trust me, if you don't like it, you never have to take it. I guess my point in the first post is that we all have our flaws. Certainly Taurus men are stubborn and tempermental at times, but us Saggie gals have our flaws, too. And when we fight, we tend to bring out the worst in each other ... just like with most everybody else.

Only you know the depth of your relationship with each other. Once again, I wish you the best.

posted October 17, 2004 12:27 AM              

He just threw this big fit and I felt like he was criticizing me for no reason other than that he was probably being selfish with what he wants. I am going back to talk to him tomorrow (I stayed in a hotel tonight as he had to drive 3 hours to his parents for things), but not to make things 100% how he wants, but to see if I can end on a better note, and maybe we can at least have a friendship as he obviously does care, even after we were yelling he still wanted me to call if i needed anything.

Anyway, my Taurus also has Venus in Aries, and he does come across as childish and selfish sometimes. Unfortunately, telling him to stop directly just doesn't stop this one. I'm glad that Venus in Aries doesn't hold a grudge though, as I feel like he is important to me even if we are having huge issues.

posted October 17, 2004 12:12 PM              

Guilt is not subjective, it's real, and Venus in Cancer can make you feel that way on purpose as a defense. Something you can say just once, can set off a Venus in Cancer to be very protective and defensive for weeks.

I wish I had another answer, but that's how this placement operates. The good news is that physically, Venus in Cancer warms up quickly.
He could be uptight about that, meaning as soon as you lay a hand on him he forgives you and he doesn't know how to "protect" his emotions. It would seem leaving him alone physically would be a good thing then, but touching is important.

Good Luck, as I find Venus in Cancer to be too touchy for my Venus in Aries, I always mess everything up with a word. And I can't bring myself to touch anyone I'm having an argument with,

My ex and I had an agreement where one of us had to end an argument by hugging, usually it was him hugging me and I would give in. That way he knew everything was okay-no grudges. These agreements are silly but they work.

posted October 17, 2004 12:18 PM              

The agreement i had with my ex that I described to Pidua, would work for you two.
One hug with the understanding that the bickering has to stop, is a good signal.
Taureans aren't very good on the phone.

Natasha

posted October 17, 2004 12:24 PM              

How would you compare a guy with that Venus in Cancer to a guy with Mars in Cancer?

posted October 17, 2004 02:36 PM            

Thank you for your advice and the information. You always know how to address the issue..

Yes..he is a Taurus with a Virgo moon and Venus in Cancer (Mars in Pisces like me). His Jupiter is in Aries -conjunct my Moon.

You are also right about the boundries - I sometimes wonder if his Neptune conjunct my Venus / Sun (falling in his 8th and 7th house respectively) sometimes blurs these boundries.

Controlling in arguments about where the blame is laid? Yep....I see that theme alot. Then again, I am just as stubborn and I don't want to take the blame, but when I see that I am wrong, I am quick to admit and move on - most of the time. Still there are times when I feel like the blame is always being thrust on to me.

I suppose I had anticipated and outburst. Mr. T had just come off working 3 14 hour shifts followed by a 12 hour shift with PT every morning at 6am. (That meant he was coming home around 9pm, eating, going to bed and getting back up at 4:45am).

The situation at work degraded when he stood up for another soldier -one of his underlings that had a birthday, but the big Sergeant in charge, being a jerk and all, wouldn't excuse the kid from PT (Apparantly, it is protocol to allow soldiers the day off for their b-days but this weenie wouldn't even let him have the next am PT off). That prompted Mr. T to go above the guys head and get permission from a higher source.

The result? Mr. T gets a negative counseling statment (like a written reprimand) for not being loyal, honest or demonstrating Army integrity. They also now have him and the other soldier coming in all this week for PT at 6am- even on their days off as punishment. Mr. T is working swing (4pm to midnight) so that he gets off work at 12am and has to get back up at 4:45 am, go to PT, then come home and try to get back to sleep for a few hours.

With the schedule he had, he also didn't have his own time to just "be". Usually he spend a couple of hours in his room / office. Working on his computer, writing or reading - he also likes to draw -but he hasn't had the time.

My first reaction after an exchange of words was "Screw this I am going to my Dad's in Phoenix so you can just be alone and deal with your temper".

Wrong solution - that promted him to shout "You always run from be..you always run away".

Yep..I do, because I usually think that running will give everyone a chance to just calm down. Then again, that really doesn't work in personal relationships. I attribute some of the needing to run to that harsh Moon opposed Uranus aspect going on in my 7th and 1st house. It is a fight or flight mechanism. We have talked about that - and about the fact that I will fight- but he hates fighting. LOL..So of course I say "Then if you hate it, why do you keep provoking it.. you cannot always HAVE the last word" LOL...

In the end we spent hours addressing the issues, talking about how we both see thngs and why we respond. I love his Virgo moon because there are time he can be analytical about things like that. I am too analytical at times, dissecting emotions..but he is learning that it doesn't mean I am cold and I am learning to be more open emotionally.

The touch thing is right on. I cannot be physical with him right after a fight (well I can most of the time, but he has too nurse his wounds a bit - that is the difference between a Fire Venus and a Water Venus I suppose). But I have learned, through him, that a hug works wonders. A tender touch on the shoulder, me rubbing his back- or him stroking my hair ( which I LOVE..must be a Saggie thing too). All that helps with the healing- at least that is what I have found.

You know, I can deal with the outbursts..I can deal with the temper (maybe because I am prone to tempers, but I get over it so quickly). I can deal with it all as long as I know that there is some kind of reason - that drives him nuts too. Because I ALWAYS need a reason - Eleanore- does that sound familiar? LOL.. I need a resolution soon after, where we address the WHY and WHAT. TO him he just wants a solution.

I think at times that only time can be a solution and he thinks at times that there really is no "why or what" that causes the problem. LOL..

VTT -

I am so sorry for your situation. I think there are times when we do not always understand our mates. I also think that Taurus, like their fixed Leo brothers, can be prone to giving long lectures...about everything that you have done wrong and nothing they have done.

I think that a Virgo woman can find her voice and stand up to that - with a lot more finesse that us Saggie, but it takes time. I have no problem standing up to mine How are things going now?

Natasha,

I do know that he needs a strong woman. We have talked about that as well. We get along about 95% of the time (his words) I said 90% because I told him there are times when I don't even get along with myself LOL... it is just when we argue or really go at it.. that is when it is a battle of will and stubborness....

posted October 17, 2004 03:14 PM              

What is it? Like they can't take the heat? Well, you know what they say ...

posted October 18, 2004 12:53 AM            

I love the hair thing, too. Aries rules the head so maybe our moons in Aries are why ... I can be furious and stubbornly silent but if he catches me by surprise and strokes my hair I just melt. Which is odd, because, like you, I usually can't stand being physical after a fight. Unless it's my hair.

posted October 18, 2004 03:32 PM              

Aah. Those Taurus men. *shakes head* What WILL we do with them?!?

We had an interesting argument this weekend... Here's a little background...

Hubby does the laundry for our family. When the littlest one was born (the oldest was only 16 months, and I was ALWAYS exhausted) I asked him to choose one house hold chore to lighten my load. He chose the laundry. After several arguments about the proper laundry procedures (i.e. sorting, fabric softener, delicates), he got the hang of it... and actually became more meticulous about certain things than I ever have been.

Ok... so, the girls have been complaining lately that they haven't had certain things clean. Usually in the morning before school when not much can be done about it. So, I decided to take it upon myself to teach them how to do their own laundry. Hubby's already had them putting their own clothes away for quite some time. Shouldn't be too much of a challenge. We have a step stool they can use to reach the knobs on the washer and dryer. So, lalala, I'm showing the oldest how to seperate warm water colors from cold water colors and hubby comes in all in a snit. "I've been doing the laundry around here for almost 7 years, and now YOU decide they should do their own?!!! Why am I not the one teaching them to do their own laundry.?!!!" To which I calmly replied, I don't know. That IS a very good question. Why aren't you the one teaching them?". I wasn't really ticked off by the whole thing. It was too comical to be angry at. I could see the anger boiling over in his eyes, but he didn't say anything more about it.

posted October 18, 2004 05:34 PM            

Oh yeah!!! I completely understand. There are times when the Bull boy will look at me and say "DO you ALWAYS need a reason?"

Yep....I sure do...because I must chew on it, swallow it, and allow myself to learn from it. Then all is well with the world.

Like you, if I find that the fight was for nothing, well, then I really have problems because it does point to bigger problems.

Sometimes, when I am really angry I do grow very cold and shut people out. It is just my way of withdrawing and protecting myself.

posted October 18, 2004 11:16 PM              

Pidua, if he is getting that at work, then that will make him short tempered, not the hours at all, but the reprimand, that would hurt a lot.
But he has to learn not to stew or sulk.

It took me years to get over it.
Years to learn not to give my higher ups grief, and get ahead by being diplomatic. Luckily I had a Libra around to teach me but I finally grew tired of sulking and said it's over, this fight is over because there will be another one soon enough and I have to save energy.

Tell your Bull for me, that today is just one day in his entire life, save the energy, don't fight.

Intimacy with another is usually without confrontation, he can yell and scream if he wants to, but not at you.

I went out with a venus in cancer, gemini sun for a long time who stewed about work problems forever. He even had plans, and ways to hurt those around him who hurt him, that kind of thing. It got really old, he has this little comic strip with him as the hero, very imaginative.

Unfortunately for me, very negative, I would have preferred he obsess over something useful.

For a Taurus with Venus in Cancer, letting go of the blame, is tough.

Maybe that's why you need a reason for the fight, since it's still going on???? He needs to drop the resentment every single day.

It's not something you think about, it's something you don't think about. But it's a commitment, willpower, focused thinking.

I understand about running away, not being there when someone is expoding is not necessary. If you are there emotionally and can help and he doesn't want to listen then I wouldn't stay in the room either.

Just remember Taurus can take some toughness, no matter how tough you are on making sure he gets the help he needs, or listens to you, he will forgive you, even if you do walk out.

Taureans don't like being left alone, but his pride won't let him believe you would leave forever. We all have our pride, and the way we are is the way we are in most cases. You can't change overnight.

I really would tell him to get over his resentments, and make sure to really do it as you will feel every single one of them along with him, because that's what intimacy is. When one person shares their grief, he either wants you to leave, or stay and be punished along with him. He can stop the pain by getting rid of it many ways.

At work he will have to play by the rules for a while, it's the hardest game for a Taurus to play, if he has a Libra friend he can learn-but you are his emotional support not his co-worker.

I do it all, get resentful, drop it, run away, come back and do it all over again. Only I do this about 20 times a day-with determination. Maybe that's why the only man who could contain me so far had a Gemini first house Moon?

Jupiter in Aries can get a little hot under the collar too. I have known two men with this placement, both would get mad about really small things. They both needed to control their emotions in organized ways, chess, working out, sports.

posted October 19, 2004 01:54 AM              

OMG THAT IS SOOOO TRUE!!

My Bull's got Venus in Cancer too.

I have to say with him, it goes both ways. He can't let go of blame where others are conserned, but especially where HE is conserned. He is his own worst critic. He's so hard on himself... blames himself for all kinds of things that I think are just ridiculous. Doesn't do any good to tell him so though... He says I have to tell him nice things. I'm biased. I'm his wife.

I find it's very important to stroke his ego (regaurdless of what he says).

I talked earlier about planting seeds. This really is the best way to deal with my Bull fella. You can't TELL him anything. He won't hear it (stubborn). BUT, if I make suggestions, or insinuations, after some time they will sink in. He will consider them in his own time and usually come up with rational conclusions.

posted October 19, 2004 10:08 AM              

I know I don't listen to out and out advice, suggestions are good because it's HOW you say it not what you say. I get blunt criticism all day because people think I can handle it.
But LibraSparkle that was so funny what you wrote about your hubby always wanting sex. I know two Venus in Cancers, that both wanted sex all the time, no foreplay just the main course.
I hated that, both were Geminis though,

Have you ever got the feeling is sex more of a compulsive act?

It's annoying to be touched constantly in a compulsive way, especially if it's done to show off in front of others.

Taurus men with Taurus Venus are a little rough around the edge in terms of grab and kiss. It's okay if I know it's coming, but I can get angry if suprised and there is a spat. Luckily this type of man forgives easily.

Libra men on the other hand are good about touching all the time, during the day, at night, they drape their entire bodies on you. It's controlling too, and bossy but I don't mind that as much. It's sort of addictive.

Ideally affection would start with a hug and sometimes, that's all there would be.