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Author Topic:   Michael Jackson+Trial Today+Innocent?
sthenri
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 10:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who thinks he is innocent? Do you believe Knowflakes, that he is partly guilty, as in nobody is innocent or guilty? Or do you think he needs psychiatric help only?

I know he has a cocaine addiction, and body image problems (Pluto conjunct Sun), and he's gay, but is he a child molester?

What do you think will happen at the trial regardless of the testimony? and what does this mean for the children psychologically?

Mike tries to keep his real birthtime a secret, but it's widely believed that he has a Scorpio or Sag Ascendant, Uranus in the 10th, and Neptune trine Moon.
Anyone want to see his chart?

Is there interest in this case?
he is of the pluto/jupiter/uranus virgo generation, and so uranus in pisces is putting stress on his body image problems even more.

Natasha
Taurus

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Archer
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 11:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
half of my teenage i was a die hard fan of MJ. anything against him was a total false for me. but when i learnt that these people can do anything for publicity and are more of bussinessmen/women than artist MJ started to fade away from my mind.

he was so all over my mind before that i would talk of him all day, try to dance like him and i even mastered the moon walk and the standing on the toes thing! guys in my school would call me Michael! lol. funny years...

i think that this guy is having a publicity stunt. he must have arranged everything with the judge, jury, police officers, the victim and laweyrs of both parties. remember his glory and fame is fading especially after his first flop 'invincible' (125 rupees in waste!) and this guy said in a famous star TV cover story that he has like 5 billion dollars! so it might all be arranged for some quick media attention.

i also believe that superstars like enrique and anna, britney and madonna, britney and christina, tom and kidman get married, kiss, fight and split, respectively, for publicity.

people's mind is strange. they tend to run away from the unspirited realities of life by getting excited by lives of sportstars, movie stars and politicians, ect. they feel its important to know about and get associated with these jerks. they see their movies first. they hear about them first. they read about them first. like i did for MJ in my growing years. luckly i'm out of it. thanks to maybe the pluto phase and sag moon's want for change.

oh btw, MJ is a virgo. but this is the first time i hear he is gay! is it really true? people here think he is a eunuch

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Archer
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 11:27 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michael Jackson was born Aug 29, 1958 at 12:14 pm cst in Gary, Indiana. This chart was rectified by Horoscope magazine. He has a Virgo sun and Pisces moon opposite each other. As I've said before, that means his parents were probably poles apart when he was born as the sun (father) is opposite the moon's position (mother).
One of the things I do is look at the first house as the totality of the person's life. In this case, he was born with Scorpio rising at 27 degrees (almost to Sag) and the 1st house goes to 23 Sag. At 19 Sag, towards the end of the first house, is Saturn. This would say to me, that the hardest time of his life will be at the end where Saturn rules.
We've spoken about the Master YOD - where Neptune and Pluto have been 60 degrees from each other since the early 40's. This is where we are called to grow. This shows some of the strongest aspects of growth we will live through. In Michael's case, Pluto is at 2 Virgo and Neptune at 2 Scorpio. The power point on the other side is in Aries 2, in the ......5th house of children.
It's generally regarded that his youth was not happy; with a father who was hard on the family. Yet now his siblings are saying they had a great childhood.
In his case, there are 5 planets in the 9th house: Uranus at 13 Leo, Venus at 16 Leo, Mercury at 25 Leo, Pluto at 2 Virgo and the sun at 5 Virgo. Venus and Uranus together can signify an unusual union, something different; not part of the standard norm. Mercury, Pluto and the sun together suggests powerful forces used mind games of some sort, and now he's able to do the same, because that's all he knows. That's what works.
Certainly, whether he has done this or not, he is a tragic figure. It's easy to judge, take sides. But instead of looking at the 'warts' it's far better to look at a person's chart and ask, "What would have happened in his young life, to cause this?" One doesn't have to condone anything to come to an understanding of it. And seeing it spelled out in his chart, it takes some of the emotional charge out of it. This is the way the cards were dealt to him, and he's had to live it out.
Being born in 1958, the first big aspect in the sky occurs in 1966-67, when Pluto and Uranus conjunct (at the same place), and on the other side, opposite, Saturn and Chiron are in together. Uranus is trying to break Pluto out of its power rut, wanting things to stay the same forever; and starts to introduce free love, hippies, unorthodox behavior. On the other side, Saturn (father) is near to Chiron (wounding). A Saturn/Chiron connection alone would produce a powerful effect, bringing the wounding of the father energy (could be someone else, but usually father) up to be looked at. But Pluto/Uranus on the other side screams for people to wake up and see what's going on (Uranus in the aura of Pluto's power).
Now, we know that Pluto doesn't move quickly. It takes 247 years to go around the horoscope, so it isn't going to go around 50% in anyone's lifetime. So, instead of looking for 'returns' as we do for the sun (birthday) Saturn (29 1/2 year trek), etc., we look at the harsh aspects (conjunction, square and opposition). For Michael, in 1966, Pluto and Uranus had moved to 17 & 19 of VIrgo, 4 signs away from natal Saturn in Sag at 19 degrees (in his first house); a square. This would indicate possible power and abuse commencing around when he was 8 years old.
Then, the planets keep moving, of course, and now, Pluto has moved from that square position in 1966, to be 90 degrees further on,at the same degree as natal Saturn in the first house; the chickens have come home to roost. When Pluto does aspects such as this, it brings up the original wounding to be looked at and hopefully comes to resolution. Now Pluto in the first house (since 1995-96) creates power struggles anyway, and here, with the two dominating planets, Pluto and Saturn, grating on each other's nerves, elements of the original abuse comes up again. The same energy presents itself, and asks you not to resort to the dominated position of the child, but to know you are an adult now, and persevere instead of capitulating to this undeniably crushing energy. It's time to turn into a diamond that can't be crushed.
So, the d.a.'s office, the sheriff, the invasion of his home; they are repeating the power struggle of 1966, and Michael can be feeling "here we go again". There's something familiar about this. Who used their power to expose (Uranus) him as a child, which is now exposing him as a man?

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Archer
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 11:30 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
that's complicated!

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted January 31, 2005 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think he's guilty of engendering a sense of sexual ambiguity in his relations with children. That is, I don't believe he ever got physical or suggestive with them, but, the nature of the relationships, the closeness involved, was clearly unorthodox, and, in today's society, could conceivably lead a child to question the experience in later life, and to feel uneasy about it, even if, ultimately, it was perfectly innocent. Does that make sense?

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miss_apples
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 12:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did not know that Michael Jackson had a cocaine addiction.

I do think he is guilty however I think that he himself sees himself as a child since he pretty much had his childhood taken away from him. So I just think he needs psychiatric help.

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Archer
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 12:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes he has addiction. he was arrested in india on his very first visit in new delhi as he was found guilty.

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thirteen
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 12:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He himself said he loves the energy of children ( childhood innocense) and sexual union is an exchange of energy. This is why I think he is guilty and does need help.

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scorpbaby
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 12:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A Vh1 special is on right now! There is also some more information on the case against Michael at **edit** www.thesmokinggun.com
Very interesting. He seems to have many psychological problems and it's unfortunate.

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ariestiger
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 12:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read an interview with Lisa Marie Presley some while back which seems to substantiate the mind games theory. Clearly MJ appears to suffer from delusions and have certain self-destructive tendencies, whether these are intentional or no.

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Atlantic Myst
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 12:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He's a wierdo. I believe he has problems and I feel he is guilty.

------------------
~*~ Cusp: Gemini/Cancer, Cancer rising, Taurus moon ~*~


Let's go...

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Archer
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 12:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my childhood hero is guilty

hang him!

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trillian
Newflake

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From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 31, 2005 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

.

No matter what we think or feel, none of us is privvy to the inner world of Michael Jackson, who deserves his day in a court of law.

Freak show? Perhaps that is what he has sadly become to many of us. His actions around children are highly suspect. But these things do not necessarily make him a guilty man.

It's likely that none of us would fare well under the glare of the media spotlight, were we to face accusations of anything, falsely or otherwise. Anything, including participation in an online forum, can be twisted, if the media is so inclined.


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The Mutable Night Force
Knowflake

Posts: 122
From: England
Registered: Oct 2009

posted January 31, 2005 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Mutable Night Force     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michael Jackson- I feel so sorry for him. I used to think he was a complete wierdo nutter. I have no doubt that he's guilty but after reading some stuff about him, I felt so sorry for him, I mean, the man needs proper help! In so many ways. He needs love and attention and stuff. He is very attention seeking and always wanting people (esp. little kids) to like him, (Pisces Moon- craves attention adn love maybe?)
However, more sensibly I'd probably say that he has an actually pschological problem, is mentally ill and therefore maybe it doesn't have much to do with astrology?? (He heh... maybe I'm just saying this to make me sound normal...*don't tell anyone you're a Virgo or they'll think you're wierd..* )

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dorkus_malorkus
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 03:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used to be a HUGE fan of MJ, but it's quite obvious now that there is something wrong with him. It's sad, but life's like that I guess. I didn't know about the cocaine addiction, either.

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Danny
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 04:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Heart-Shaped-Cross, it does make sense and that is what I think as well. Virgo man are kinky, yes...but also very innocent. Michael Jackson adores children and I believe he just wanted to show them love.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Though, if he is found guilty then that is just too too much I mean he is a fabulously talented man with a lot to offer.

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LeoSweetHeart
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 05:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know why but I have a soft spot for Micheal Jackson. When I hear his songs, I hear him pouring out his heart and soul. In his song Man in the Mirror, he sings about children suffering and how we all act blind to other people's harships. I think he genuinely cares for children (underpriveledged esp) and has created a place for them to forget their diseases and be normal kids. He is sooooo famous, he could have any groupy he wants..why a child suffering from cancer?? It just doesn't make sense to me. I do think he gets suspiciously close for our comfort, but I really don't think he is molesting them.

Oh yea and one of his songs "they don't really care about us", he says something about how hard it has been to fulfill his prophecy. So maybe he thinks he was put here to help children and give to people. And in a song about money..he speaks against lust and greed and complains about people selling their souls for money. He just seems to good to me. He just doesn't talk like a mentally insane person. He makes perfect sense to me. I think people take the way he looks and sounds and victimize him because he's such an easy target. And how much money will families get if they win the case?? A whole lot! Its not that accusing someone of sexual harassment for money is a new thing in this society. You never know.

As for the coke addiction, didn't some african doctor say he helped cure him of it and Micheal never paid him for his services. I don't know, when I heard this man talk, he's the one who sounded nutty (the "doctor").

I hope he isn't guilty, he seems to be so kind hearted and spirited. He is still someone we'll never forget because he had such an amazing presence and his songs never fail to uplift us. If he needs psychological help, I pray he gets it. And I won't be so naive to say for sure, he's innocent..I just feel like he's too good natured to be guilty. we'll see. I think our court system is pretty fair, I hope he gets properly represented through this, he's going to need it. It seems the police and courts are already against him.

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dorkus_malorkus
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 05:25 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, he is innocent until proven guilty. He is very talented indeed, and I don't want to believe that he's guilty of these crimes. However, his speech, and his actions reflect his mental condition, and his self-destructive behavior. I don't know him, so I can't judge him and I will continue to admire him for his talent and his work.

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sthenri
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 05:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still think he needs therapy, but the smokinggun.com does have some damning evidence of his molestations including boys underwear, and just so many little things that don't add up. Why sleep with children? especially when he's on the verge bankruptcy, it's as if he is trying to prove he is a victim.

I think he is unconciously playing out his role as a child victim, to show the world what he went through, but he is using children to make his statement. I mean artists, blur the lines all the time between life and reality, and I think Michael does not know how he is affecting these children, as humans, not really.

Possibly he believes he is preparing these children for his kind of world? In any case, I hope he is ordered for psychiatric care for a period of time to deal with reality.

Here are the links
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jacksonhouse.html http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/010605jackson.html

Natasha


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scorpbaby
unregistered
posted January 31, 2005 06:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yea that really convinced me too Natasha...
scary

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jfjinca
unregistered
posted April 17, 2005 11:56 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that he's innocent of 'sexually' molesting boys.

But letting them sleep with him in his bed and calling it "beautiful" IS wrong. If your 'average Joe' (or Mike, in this case), had acted the way he's been acting, his kids would've been yanked from him in no time flat. If he hated 'his' own childhood, can you imagine what his 'own' kid's childhood is like...scary!

I think he's caught up in a fantasy world of his own making, where he can do anything he pleases, and blame it on "Peter Panism".

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 13, 2005 09:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, i was looking for the search function, and I found this instead...
What do you think, being today's verdict?

*did it really have to be me that bumped this?

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virgotaurustaurus
unregistered
posted June 13, 2005 09:40 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I want his Virgo card revoked, dammit!

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Tranquil Poet
unregistered
posted June 13, 2005 09:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Still love him though. Don't bleieve he actually molested the ungrateful litle boy though. he does need some hlep though. I feel he is guilty in some ways.


quote:
I think he's guilty of engendering a sense of sexual ambiguity in his relations with children. That is, I don't believe he ever got physical or suggestive with them, but, the nature of the relationships, the closeness involved, was clearly unorthodox, and, in today's society, could conceivably lead a child to question the experience in later life, and to feel uneasy about it, even if, ultimately, it was perfectly innocent. Does that make sense?

I'd gave to agree with this.


Poor man looked like he was going to cry. it broke my heart.


I will always love his music though.

He seems to think he is peter pan.

------------------

Gemini sun, Cancer rising, Taurus moon

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DayDreamer
unregistered
posted June 14, 2005 12:47 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If he is truly guilty then this won't be the last we hear about him and the molestation accusations.

Still, I don't understand why he would be so stupid to sleep with young boys if he is innocent????

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