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Author Topic:   House Cusps
Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted March 09, 2005 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was reading Steven Arroyo, and he was saying how, unlike the zodiac signs, the cusps of which tend to blend rather seamlessly into one another, house cusps are not to be viewed in the same way, but, contrary to what many astrologers seem to think, houses are very sharply demarcated areas of activity. Hence, a planet close to the end of one house ought not to be interpreted as belonging to the next house.

Has anybody looked into this?
Any views?

*Arroyo does mention that transiting planets act differently from natal planets, and can begin to act on a house a full six degrees prior to entering it.

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26taurus
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posted March 09, 2005 06:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I love Steven Arroyo and I do agree with everything you posted that he says. I think and have noticed when a planet is in a particular house, it should be interpreted in that house, not the next one. If it was supposed to be interpreted in the next house it would be there. A planet is either in one house or the other. Just like you are one Sun sign or the other. You may be close to a cusp or the next sign in the zodiac and feel some of it's infulence but you are one or the other. And a planet is in one house or the other. The actual house it is in, is the one it should be interpreted in.

No one is a Gemini/Cancer, Taurus/Gemini etc. You could be born on a day where you are close to what they call the "cusp" but by looking at the degree of your Sun you will clearly see that it is in ONE sign, not two. You are 29 degrees Cancer or whatever. The degree will tell you which sign you are. There should be no confusion. You can look to the next sign and probably notice infulences of it within yourself but you should be looking more into the actual sign you are by degree. That's what I think at least.

If you lean towards the belief that you choose the lessons you will need to learn or work on in this lifetime before you are born, you choose a certain time and a chart that is set up for you to learn these lessons. So although, for example, my Venus is in the fifth house but close to the sixth, it is indeed in the fifth not sixth.

I dont like how astro.com interprets planets in the next houses when they are close to a cusp.

And yes, like Arroyo says, the cusps in your chart are energy points. When transiting planets exit the door of one house and enter the next it is felt, the energy changes. In my observations it is noticeable.

I also dont believe in using equal houses.
Aselzion put it perfectly in another forum:

quote:
The Equal House System is a picture of the Soul as it is in Heaven, where all things ARE Equal.

I think it is naive in the extreme to believe that condition also exists (currently) on our "Sorrowful Star".

So, here, where all things are admittedly, apparently and predictably quite UnEqual, the Quadrant House Systems begin to make better sense. Here we take the picture of the Soul and see what happens when it is born/incarnated into the 3rd dimensional level where all things are NOT (currently) Equal.


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Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted March 09, 2005 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanx 26!

I tend to agree.

But, I'm surprised to hear you say that there is no such thing as a Gemini/Cancer, etc., and I'm curious about your reasons for drawing this conclusioon. I've been laboring under the opposite impression, that the signs of the zodiac are a kind of continuum, only conveniently divided at the cusps. I figured that, if we could place the cusps on the 15th degree of every sign, we could just as easily interpret the zodiac, although, the archetypes would have to change. I have no reason for suspecting this, except that it feels true to me. Of course, only time (and experimentation) will tell. But, thanks to you, my mind is a bit more open on this.

take care,
hsc

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26taurus
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posted March 09, 2005 07:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Steve!

Well, what I mean is that no one is really a Gemini/Cancer, meaning you cannot be two signs. Yes, you can be on the cusp and feel the infulence of the next sign but you truly are the sign by where your degree is placed at. I dont mean to say you cannot notice the traits of the other sign within you but if someone asked you your sign you would say the one that you actually are, placed by degree. You are a Gemini or a Cancer. Yes, you may be on the cusp and you could say that. But you are the actual sign your degree is placed in. I dont mean to say that there are "no such things as cusps", because there are. But you are not two signs. You are one or the other and if by chance you are born on a cusp, then yes, you will feel a bit of both, but you truly are only one. Know what I mean? You "chose" that sign (known by what degree the sign is in) as your Sun Sign for reasons. Otherwise you wouldve waited and been the other sign. You cant be two Sun signs. You CAN feel the effects of two by being near the cusp but you are one or the other. Does that make more sense?

Also one could bring the whole anaretic degree aspect it into it. If you have a planet at 29 degrees of a sign, that particular sign will be felt even stronger and it is going to be play even more important part in your life. So although it is close to the next sign, it is in only one of those signs for a reason.

I hope that clarifies. Just some thoughts and opinions of mine.

And really, we each have every single sign and planet somewhere within us. And we can draw upon every signs qualities. I think that is the ideal thing to do. Each sign is operating somewhere in our chart and in some aspect of ourSelf.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted March 09, 2005 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm...

I think I get what you are saying, and we are arguing two very different points, which are not necessarily in contradiction.

I am not asking whether I should refer to a person born at 29' Leo as a Leo. I agree that, for the sake of convenience, said person is a Leo, and is "more of a Leo" than a Virgo. But, in a very real sense, this person would only be slightly more Leo than Virgo, and, technically, can hardly be considered "a Leo"...

Like, if I gave you 51% of my pizza, you would hardly say that I gave you the whole thing, right? Sure, maybe you could say the pizza was more yours than mine, but would you say "the pizza belongs to me"?

So, okay, let's say the native was born on the cusp of Leo/Virgo, at 29' Leo... To me, this could signify that the native's Sun (to say nothing of the rest of the chart) is only slightly more comfortable with Leo than Virgo. For convenience, we would "round off" to Leo, but this person's Sun would only be slightly less Virgo in character than a person born just one day later.

I think I understand what you mean by "choosing" the sign. But, I see no reason why a person could not have chosen to be a Leo/Virgo (or a cusp dweller), in the sense of being only fractionally more Leo than Virgo. In other words, they very deliberately chose to be a Leo on the Virgo cusp, rather than wait a single day to be born a Virgo - just as surely as they did not choose to be born a Leo 12, 18, or even 26 days earlier. Like, the person had all month to be born a Leo, right? But, they very specifically chose that last day, not so that they would NOT be born in Virgo, but, so that they WOULD be born on the cusp of Leo/Virgo.

Does that make sense?

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26taurus
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posted March 10, 2005 01:32 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed. Yes, that makes sense.

But, back to the pizza. Remember, you are talking to a Taurus now. It might not have been the wisest choice to use food as an example here. Especially since sharing it is also involved. By giving a Bull 51% of your pizza, you have just made yourself a new best friend - for life. In their mind you have given them the whole pie. The fact that you would share your food then coupled with the fact that you have gone so far as to give them an extra 1% will never go unforgetten in their books and may even bring a tear to their eye.

Now turn the tables for a moment. If the Taurean gave you 51% of THEIR pizza (highly unlikely), then in their eyes yes, they would most definitely go so far as to say that they have just given you "the whole thing". They will never ever forget that time at the local House of Pizza when you "pigged out" and ate slightly over half of the pizza and they left "still hungry".

Something to keep in mind about us Taureans. You can only pull these types of moves for so long before we explode. We never forget anything and keep a running tally in our heads of all of the times you've p!ssed us off, as we waved our hands in a motion saying everything was fine. Then one day when you least expect it we explode on you for leaving the toilet seat up. Leaving you confused at why we are freaking out over something so trivial. Here's a clue, it's not the toilet seat. It really stems back to that first date when you ate 51% of the pizza. The one we that we wanted black olives on but you dont like black olives and proceeded to order it plain. You didnt even think to order it with HALF black olives. But then, the waitress might have gotten confused when you said 51% black olives. Although knowing you, you wouldve asked for 51% plain - selfish b@stard....

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virgotaurustaurus
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posted March 10, 2005 01:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey i had pizza for dinner!! I wonder if there's leftovers, 4 slices didn't suffice. (I've had like...some bbq chips, a thing of Smarties, and a tiny 3 musketeers since dinner). I could probably eat 51% right now.

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2005 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Now Now, kids, don't make me turn this car around.....

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pixelpixie
Newflake

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From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2005 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oops, Hi Vtt, I didn't see you there....


and no worries, I will not 'dirty' up this thread, in fact, I am leaving right now.
Er.. soon.
You know... um.. presently.
51% of me is, anyway..... that's a heck of a lot, so it counts.

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26taurus
unregistered
posted March 10, 2005 01:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*waves* Hey you two! *whispers* I'm not really like that.

Wow VTT! 3 Musketeers......I havent had one of those in forever. Would you be so kind as to share at least 51% of it with me???

pixie, *whiney kid voice* But MOoooooOM!!!! He's sitting on my 51% of the seeeeeeat!!!

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pixelpixie
Newflake

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From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2005 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That seat monkey.
Go onto your own side.. and stop looking at her like that, or it's anchovies for both of you!!!!

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virgotaurustaurus
unregistered
posted March 10, 2005 01:50 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey 26T! I'll give you 52% of the 3 Musketeer!!

While we are on percentages...I'm so in the mood to give people a 100% slap tonight. Hahaha. I hate it when I'm moody! RAWRRRR.

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26taurus
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posted March 10, 2005 01:50 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ROFL!

YEAH!

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26taurus
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posted March 10, 2005 01:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"100% slap." LOL That sucks VTT. What sign's the moon in tonight?.......

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virgotaurustaurus
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posted March 10, 2005 01:53 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moon is in Pisces! I never have good times during Moon in Pisces. Grrr

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26taurus
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posted March 10, 2005 01:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep, that'll do it. Opposite your Sun and soon, at some point, to be oppo my Moon. Setting off any harsh natal aspects too....*sigh* I'm in pretty good spirits tonight for no apparent reason though....

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virgotaurustaurus
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posted March 10, 2005 02:01 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ooohhh!! Sun/moon opposition, no wonder I'm a cranky biotch! ahahaha! I also have my Saturn square Saturn thingie totally exact I think..tomorrow....

Wooo my moon opposition your moon! Let's fiiiightt!!! I will have Dave here toss some poo at you!

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26taurus
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posted March 10, 2005 02:04 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No Dave dont do it!! Please!

If you are going to, please only throw an uneven numbered percentage of it!!!

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26taurus
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posted March 10, 2005 02:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oooh the Saturn aspect is exact tomorrow? Ouch. Stay away from people who might set you off.

Oh and I meant the transiting Pisces moon will be oppo my moon sometime soon....Please dont hurt me!! LOL

*off to find a funny poo picture*

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virgotaurustaurus
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posted March 10, 2005 02:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Fortunately for you, my dog ate 83.45% of the poo! Nasty dog...

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2005 02:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
THROWING POOP?
JUST WAIT TILL YOUR FATHER GETS HOME!!!
Sorry.. doing a lexi, didn't mean to yell, although it was apropo.<<< that word IN the lexi I did. whoooie

Please don't throw poop at me, I am anal retentive in a large way, and I couldn't throw it back, but I would slap you a bunch. Like 100%...

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2005 02:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Now with the poop jokes.
That SD, always with he robot references.

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virgotaurustaurus
unregistered
posted March 10, 2005 02:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oooo 100% slapping...200% kinky? Haha I'll throw poop at my father too!

OOPS haha I can't read! Hmm...that Pisces moon is floating around my 12th house!

Haha I just looked, that Saturn aspect is exact tomorrow yep yep! This should be innnnteerresstinngggg, maybe I am feeling that already!

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Eleanore
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From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2005 02:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What are decanates?


Everybody has a decanate. A decanate (sometimes called a decan) is a subdivision of a sun sign. Every sun sign in divided into three parts: First Decanate, Second Decanate, and Third Decanate. The root of the word “decanate” is Greek for “ten days apart.” This concept was borrowed from the Egyptians who had a 360-day calendar (although the Egyptians later added 5 days to their calendar due to the inaccuracy). The 360-day calendar year was broken into 10 day segments. It becomes easier to understand why the decanate is important when you recall that the zodiac is actually a circle. A circle has 360 degrees (a degree for each day of the 360-day calendar), each sign consists of 30 degrees of the zodiac. Each decanate, therefore 10 degrees of the zodiac circle. Each decanate, then, is 10 days long. (Keep in mind, the 10 days are an approximation, as we do not have 360-day calendars).


If you were born within the first 10 days of your sun sign, you were born in the First Decanate. If you were born in the 11th-20th day, you were born in the Second Decanate. You were born in the Third Decanate if you were born in the 21st - 30th day of your sun sign. Each decanate has its own constellation and its own qualities. Just as each sun sign has a planetary ruler, each decanate has one as well. These are actually called planetary subrulers because they do not override the entire sun sign’s planetary ruler.


Your decanate does not change the basic characteristics of your sun sign, it just individualizes the characteristics a bit more. This is why many daily and weekly horoscopes actually give forecasts for individual decanates.

What is a Cusp?


There are actually two types of cusps in astrology: house cusps and sign cusps. Both mark the beginning of a particular sign, but house cusps refer to the twelve divisions on birth charts that are related to career, marriage, wealth, etc. You will not have a need to know about house cusps unless you are doing a birth chart analysis. The sign cusps are more commonly referred to.


The cusps of the sun signs mark where each sign begins. Astrologers do not agree entirely about what constitutes a true cusp. A safe rule of thumb, though, is the five-day rule. If you were born within the last five days or first five days of a sign, you were born on a cusp. Because of the inaccuracy of the Zodiac calendar, some people born on a cusp were actually born into a different sign than their birthday would dictate. The Sun does not move into each sign at exactly the same time every year. For this reason, if you were born on the same day as a sign change, you may want to consult an astrological ephemeris to confirm your true sun sign. (An astrological ephemeris is an almanac listing of exact planetary positions for each day of a year.)


If you were born on a cusp, you will find that you have qualities of the two signs that you straddle. The sign that you were actually born under, however, will always have the stronger influence.


Knowing which decanate you were born in and whether or not your were born on a cusp will enable you to receive and forecast more accurate horoscopes!
http://va.essortment.com/astrologyterms_rzrb.htm


Generally, I think the 30 degree division of the zodiac is not arbitrary, even to the point of which division occurs where. That is, I don't think that if we moved the first degree of Aries to the 15th degree and worked from there that it would be accurate. I think sign cusps are easier to understand in terms of decanates, although I'm aware that not everybody believes in them, nor even how to assign them secondary rulerships. I'll give the most common example I've heard. Aries ... divide it into three parts, the first tenth, the second tenth, and the third tenth. The first tenth is still Aries, whether it's 1 degree or 10 degrees, but its subruler would be Pisces/Neptune since it's the sign that immediately preceeds it. The second tenth, or decanate, would be still be Aries, but it would be a "fuller" Aries because it's in the middle and furthest from either the sign preceding it or the sign following it. The third decanate would still be Aries, but subruled by Taurus/Venus since that's the sign immediately following it. Of course, not everyone believes the subrulerships work like this and I'm personally more inclined to follow the lead of Alan Leo in Esoteric Astrology in regards to decanates. Nevertheless, I've heard many people give the previous examples of how subrulerships go, etc.
However, no matter how much you divide and subdivide a sign, the main ruler and influence is of the sign you are dealing with ... Aries is Aries is Aries no matter where you land on Aries. You may be Aries modified by Jupiter with a hint of Venus, but you're still Aries. And besides, there are so many more prominent factors to consider in a natal chart than decanates that the probability of them having an overriding influence is negligible. Would you like ketchup with your fries or fries with your ketchup?

------------------
"This above all:
to thine own self be true,
And it must follow,
as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false
to any man." - Shakespeare

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2005 02:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very brave Eleanore..Thanks for the post!!!!
*watch out for the flying poop! Dave's got a good backhand.
I can't believe no one went to free for all, my hubby said funny things I shared, and no one has see the silliness.

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