posted May 07, 2005 06:47 PM              

When a planet is located in the upper part of the 12th house, it influence is confined entirely to that department of life, but when close to the Ascendant, it acquires dominion also over the physical body, for the Ascendant is the degree which held the Moon at conception and serves as an avenue of ingress for the life forces until the severance of the umbilical cord.

The planets in aspect to that degree during the 9 months immediately preceding birth each had a share in forming the organic constitution of the child. This is particularly true of the planets which formed a conjunction with the Ascendant during the prenatal period. After birth, health is influenced by aspects to the Ascendant and conditions of the 6th house; but the organic constitution which was determined by the prenatal aspects mentioned above is almost unchangeable for these aspects are the ripe vintage of our past which must be drunk to the dregs no matter how we squirm, though proper care, particularly if applied in childhood, may considerably decrease suffering from that source.

   Neptune really signifies what we may call "the gods," commencing with the supernormal beings we know as Elder Brothers, and compassing the innumerable hosts of spiritual entities -- good, bad, and indifferent, which influence our evolution. Its position and aspects denote our relation to them, if any; malefic aspects attract agencies of a nature inimical to our welfare, benefic configurations draw upon the good forces. Thus, if Neptune is placed in the 10th house, trine to the Ascendant, the person involved will have the opportunity to become a leader or prominent in a movement along mystical lines as denoted by the exalted position of Neptune.

His body will be capable of receiving the finer vibrations and coming into touch with the spiritual world, as denoted by the trine of the Ascendant. On the other hand, when Neptune is placed in the 12th house, whose nature is passive and productive of suffering, it indicates that at some time, perhaps under a square from the Midheaven such as we are considering, the evil forces among whom are spirit-controls will be drawn to that person and endeavor to obtain possession of the body.

The conjunction of Neptune with the Ascendant will make the body sensitive and usable for spiritual purposes as well as the trine. Given the opportunity afforded by the first aspect mentioned, the man may become a pupil of a Mystery School and a factor for great good in the uplift of mankind; placed under the affliction of the second aspect, he may become a helpless tool of spirit-controls, an irresponsible medium.

This article is very true, and those with Neptune close to the ascendant are prone to being used, by others. I find it's helpful to work in a field where you deal with many people and help them in some small way.

Also jealousy and Possessiveness
is a big problem with these aspects. I was saying the other day that when I end a relationship it's like I need an exorcism. I am infested with that person's life and identity. I have Neptune very close to the first house in the 12th Scorpio. 1st house is Sag, and my relationships often have Neptune in the 10th in the composite.

What I find fascinating is the idea of mediumship, do you ever find yourself being used for another purpose than you intended, and did you benefit from it without realizing? If there is a way to benefit from these situations, without turning from your own path, that would be ideal. I think that is what makes Neptune in the 1st such a good artist, the mind gets occupied by others, and eventually one starts to make this a living.

Comments, and arguments welcome,

posted May 08, 2005 01:59 PM              

What jumped out at first was the Moon/Ascendant idea at conception...I am not sure I understood the relatedness of that idea. The Ascendent is relative to time of birth and if the baby was born three weeks early, the Moon would be wrong at determining the ascendant at conception. Did you follow that?? Did I misunderstand this point??

***(I have a head cold today so everything may come across a bit fuzzy-forgive me please!)

Now, I am a 1st house Neptune, about 3-4 degrees from my Scorpio Ascendant. As far as mediumistic issues...my intuition is rarely wrong and I trust it whole-heartedly. Between these two placements, not much gets by me...so don't even try to cover anything up and lie to this gal!

Often I give my energy away to others and it can feel like I am being used afterwards. However, it is my choice and I am completely aware of my doing so. The hard task is knowing when to let go of the feelings evoked from helping someone. Feelings that I absorb from the other person who may be in pain. I think this placement along with other aspects makes me empathic. Definitely, my emotions are a major part of my relating to others. People will call me just to get a lift of sorts...without really giving anything back in return.

Overall, I feel that finding that balance of giving away what you want and attempting to maintain your own energy is something we have to stay aware of. I have often been accused of never asking for help from anyone...I believe this is part of my learning balance. I feel good helping others yet have difficulty letting others give back.

Part of me 'automatically' offers help to others. Maybe I wish that others would just offer to help back without me having to ask. I know that might sound a bit silly at first. And I will stop before I go into my litany about so many others who are takers. It is beyond my realm of thinking that so many people feel comfortable taking freely...with giving little back unless asked. Does any of this make sense??

posted May 08, 2005 06:23 PM              

That's up to interpretation, but I believe this to be true as I have Neptune so close in Scorpio to the ascendant and true, no one can lie to me either! But that' makes me very sad, to see so many lie to me for no reason.

My instincts are more than true, I am in danger if I do not follow each one, possibly there is some significance between mother and child with those who are born with Neptune still on the ascendant overpowering the body?

Maybe your mother overpowered you in some way, my mother was certainly strong and in my case it was a battle to see who would win. Her moon is in Pisces so we could not live around each other. I am curious to see how many Neptune 1sts have good relationships with their mothers, or not. Maybe the mother's influence is felt to sharply, due to separation issues?

A lot of astrologers say the Moon is about control, and we have to separate from our moon, detach in order to survive. This article is giving some idea to separation from mother to child, and what actually happens spiritually, or not.

What do you think?

Sorry about your cold!
And yes we can benefit from allowing others to use our energy or not, I am on a tight energy leash these days, we can really benefit from water sun signs and others with water planets on the ascendant, if they are healthy people.

posted May 08, 2005 07:14 PM            

Neptune in the Seventh House
Neptune in Sagittarius
Jupiter Conjunct Neptune
Moon Opposition Neptune
Neptune Opposition Ascendant
Sun Trine Neptune
Neptune Sextile Pluto

Any comments welcome!

posted May 08, 2005 07:40 PM              

Well...I do recall some of the difficult issues you personally have had to deal/live with regarding your Scorpio mother. Difficult relations with the mother may be part of this placement.

I too have a Scorpio mom...actually-a triple Scorp with a rising Leo...me,me,me...I,I,I...the world is all about me and I am the 'ultimate victim'...Worship me...I am the most wonderful of all...aren't I the BEST??

Although I am the first of four childrem, she often reminds us that she wanted to run away and become a nun. (True) Also meaning-she doesn't really like having to 'give' per se as a mother would be inclined to do. Maybe she calls on our birthdays, maybe not if she is busy doing other things. She had no problem telling me that she wanted to give me (all of us)up for adoption...even now and I am almost 40yrs!! She said this last time I saw her-in front of my 9 year old niece no less-and my niece stated to her Grandma: "Isn't Aunt Kathy is too old to give up for adoption Grandma?" Ha,ha...too funny. My brother and I just looked at each other...sadly yet finding humor about my demented mother's state of mind.

Today being Mother's Day is often a melancholy day for my brothers and I. There is no connection there for us...that feeling of distance from her was pervasive throughout our entire life with her.

My Cancer moon says I am supposed to be influenced by the mother or have strong ties...the main influence I have learned is not to put up with abusive people in my life-having had to live with a verbally and physically abusive parent/mother.

My own mothering instincts are very strong and I feel I have corrected and learned many things from my friends' mothers who are absolutely fabulous with me. I am an honorary sister and daughter in several of my childhood friends' families. In some ways I feel like I want to be there for so many people who were not nurtured in their life...and that is where the giving of yourself comes into play. Maybe filling my desire to give love to the world-all the while thinking that people need more love and encouragement-even though we all are adults!! We all need that support!! Having not had that love in my life, I feel unduly sensitive/intuitive to the underlying pain in people.

Summed up, my relationship with my mother is non-existant mostly. True of all of my three brothers and her. No effort returned by our mother whatsoever. The boys gave up long ago. When someone is sooooo selfish and self-centered, sometimes you just have to let her be and accept that she will never be the loving mom that you wished for...and as my brothers and I say; "Well, we could've done a lot worse...Yah, but we sure couldv'e done a lot better!!!"

What have you learned from your relationship with your mom?

Take care-thanks for thinking of my cold/sinusitis...I haven't been sick in nearly 2 years...weirdly, many of the transiting planets are just now pulling out of my 6th house!! Ha,ha...wouldn't you know!!

posted May 08, 2005 08:57 PM            

At my conception I had Pluto still conjuncting my Ascendant, but it was in the 12th house in retrograde...also Jupiter was within 4 degrees of my ascendant (and I am a saggie...)

Still..it makes a ton of sense.

posted May 08, 2005 10:40 PM              

Gemstar, I have learned that if someone finds or discovers, or rescues you, that you do not owe that person a darn thing. And vice versa. My mother found me, and blamed me for being there, but it's her life she has to lead, it's not my responsibility to help or harm her.
I do not love her right now, and I do believe she is intent on making sure she destroys any happiness in her children, because she sees happiness as a rarity.

I also know that when I let her into my life I am allowing other destructive relationships to enter because I am advertising myself as a doormat. It's no coincidence that abusive people enter my life through her. She has taught me to suffer and I have to unlearn her lessons. I especially have trouble relating to those with Pluto square Sun, and those with Mars opposite or square Neptune.

I am always watching myself to make sure I am assertive and not contacting anyone who would suggest I have a relationship with her, as then she will take advantage immediately financially, or emotionally. I can't kid myself, I do not delude myself about my limits.

posted May 08, 2005 11:30 PM              

I have Neptune in the First House and, also, experience my relationship with my Mom, to be quite, an emotional roller coaster. My brother does, as well. He seems to have a way of, smoothing things over with her, that goes fairly unnoticed, however. Guess this could be, in part anyway, to his Sun being conjunct, exactly to her Moon. Mom is a Leo with Moon in Virgo and, Pisces Asc. What's interesting is that, our Dad is, also, Leo Sun but, his Asc is in Virgo and, he has a Pisces Moon. My Dad is one of my dearest and, also, best friends. He is, however, an alchoholic and, it is when he has ' had a few ', that I see him in the way that I know him. He's very distant when sober. Bro and, I encounter Dad, in a very different way, than Mom. Unlike some of the other posts here, I feel a growing urgency to connect and, push through the difficulties that my Mom and, I create for each other. My first Saturn Return, is what brings forth this push but, I always have felt the need to know her. In the last two years, she has opened up several interior doors to me. This gave a better understanding of many things, as she has a very confused and, bruised soul. It has served as a beginning in healing this, for her, as well. I do not know her but, I have seen her, finally! Mom is beautiful but, even now, it has been about 3 months, since we last spoke..... my fault, in part.

posted May 09, 2005 08:38 AM              

Good luck with breaking through to your mother. I just wanted to comment that although we have written about where we are with our moms at this point, do know that it has come to this point after many attempts to connect.

Please remember that trying on your part is essential to the equation as well and it is important to recognize. You DO and that is great! It is frustrating after so many years to come to the realization that my mother doesn't really care too much and as much as I had hoped it would be different, it isn't.

So....just letting you know that these thoughts we write about come after too many years of trying with a person who isn't willing to give back. It is a shame and unfortunately, both sides lose out in some ways. It just is.

Keep up your attempts with your mom...always wishing for the best. Understanding is important as well and it is great that you are really taking a hard look at your mom's pain. Hopefully you will have success...best of luck!