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Author Topic:   Needing mother advice...
Quazar
unregistered
posted May 16, 2005 08:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello everyone. I'm new here, and I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me.
I'm struggling with some issues with my mother. I have a wonderful husband, two beautiful children, and with the exception of my relationship with my mother, I'm very happy with my life.
I feel that my relationship with my mother is toxic, toxic to my family, our happiness, my life in general. I've tried to distance myself from her, but I'm still in so much pain, trying to understand why we can't have a normal loving relationship. I think if I could gain some sort of understanding of why we are the way we are, I might be able to put it behind me.
My bdate is 9/20/75
Sun-Virgo
ASC-Virgo
Moon-Pisces
Mercury-Libra
Venus-Leo
Mars-Gemini
Jupiter-Aries
Saturn-Leo
Uranus-Scorpio
Neptune-Saggittarius
Pluto-Libra

My mother's bdate is 7/4/57 (unsure of birthtime)
Sun-Cancer
Moon-Libra
Mercury-Cancer
Venus-Leo
Mars-Leo
Jupiter-Virgo
Saturn-Saggitarius
Uranus-Leo
Neptune-Libra
Pluto-Leo

If there is anyone who could possibly give me ANY sort of insight, it will definately help ease this hurt that I've carried around for so long.
I look forward hearing from anyone!

Thanks for listening!
Quazar

P.S. If this is the wrong place to post this sort of thing, I do apologize!

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lovely*
unregistered
posted May 17, 2005 02:51 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi there quazar~

your post stuck out because I have been asking myself similar questions about my own mother.

i sincerely believe virgos have the most karma in the zodiac. we are just laden with loads of emotional stuff. so much in life to overcome for such a delicate little virgo being.

ok the first thing popping is your mother's age or better yet, her age when she gave birth to you. 17? she was a child. a young cancer sun with an afflicted moon and merc. *you could plug her info into astro.com to get approximate degrees*

with mother issues we look to the 4th house. your 4th house is in sagittarius(or possibly scorpio) depending on time of birth-- but i think sag. you have neptune there- squared the moon. its clear to see the subject of your mother is deeply painful for you (obviously) and possibly shameful. you try to escape but its impossible.

is your mother a communicative emotive crab or retreating quiet crab? i'm thinking she was the combative cross-examining, second guesses everything you say type crab and NEVER admits to hurtful behaviour or wrong-doing. and you, virgo, need to get off your own back. there's no room for mom back there. she doesnt' realise she is hurting you because she feels you hurt her first. its really childish. but your mom didn't properly grow.

your mom has very specific ideas of how she ought to be treated by you and sometimes you don't feel she has earned your respect, right? she wants and expects to be adored by you because SHE IS YOUR MOTHER right?

if you have degrees/aspects of either charts it would help others with interpretation.

but~ astrology aside, if you have people poluting the air you breathe, you get rid of them. send them away with love and strength. its called self preservation. remove the unhealthy elements.

i strongly feel you are the parent here, and your mom is not willing to come to terms what shes done. once she comes forward in a clean way and owns up to her part..great.. then you can establish a productive relationship. until then, lean on friends and family and let your mom be a lesson never to bestow onto your own children. remain concious of everything you do with your children.. because the darkside of the issues with mom will surface~ particularly with saturn return looming.

good luck and welcome. let us know what happens or if youre willing to share more about your situation please do

melissa

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Battle of Evermore
Newflake

Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Dec 2010

posted May 17, 2005 03:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Battle of Evermore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm that way with my dad, he's a Cancer, I'm a Virgo. I can't stand to be around him. My grandfather has always been my father figure. My Cancer aunt gave birth at 17 to twins. She has that kind of relationship to a lesser degree with her three children. *hugs* Sorry about your situation. I know it sucks. Hope you and your mom can get past it.

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cancerrg
unregistered
posted May 17, 2005 05:36 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i dont about the ground realities but being a mother doesn't she need respest that is due to her . i dont want to generalize but , i have a virgo brother and virgo mom , i am cancer and i can truly understand the virgo's thought towards the family , so it would be better to see your own mistakes before putting the blame . i hope i am not coming to hard on u if i am tell me . we can discuss a lot .

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Quazar
unregistered
posted May 17, 2005 08:41 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First of all, Thank You so much for your replies. You guys have really touched the heart of my situation with your insights...
It's not my intention to air all my dirty laundry here, but I feel that I should elaborate a bit on the history with my mother. I'll try not to be too wordy...
My father left when I was 4, and shortly after she remarried. She is still with my stepfather. When I was 15, she began having an affair, and I was put in the middle of it. She would leave my brother (he was 7) with me day after day while she slipped off to see this man. My stepfather would pump me for information, for example, asking me how long my mother had been gone each day, if her "boyfriend" had called (yes this man had the nerve to call our home.) I would tell my stepfather the truth, and my mother would get so angry at me & always say I was a liar. When I was 16, she checked herself into a mental facility because she felt that her own issues had drove her to have an affair. While she was gone, things got really messed up, between me & my stepfather. You could call it "emotional incest." My stepfather would say things to me that were completely inappropriate considering that I was 15 & his stepdaughter. That's all I say about that. After she returned home a few months later, they began to work out their marriage. But things never returned to normal with me & him. When I was 19, my stepfather and I got into an argument, and he pretty much beat the **** out of me and kicked me out. My mother was there and saw what happened.
I've tried to talk to mother about what happened. When I told her about the things that had happened with my stepfather, she once again called me a liar. To this day, she denies that my stepfather ever hit me, and that he didn't kick me out, that I just left.
Mind you, I am 29 now. I've never gotten an apology from my stepfather, nor any acknowledgement that things went wrong. I didn't speak to my parents at all, until I was 21. Since then, we've all just pretended "nothing ever happened." Any time I've tried to talk it out with them, it's "things weren't like that...Your childhood was wonderful..." I've left out alot of details, because I don't want to write a book here... I do want to emphasize that over the past several years I've tried so hard to be good to my parents to heal this. There was a period of time I was paying their mortgage, I took care of both of them after surgeries. I am an adoring daughter, and I probaly spoil my mother. But it's no use. Lovely, my mother is a retreating crab.
I starve for attention from her. She never wants to do things with me. She only wants me when she needs help with something (i.e. painting the bedroom, cleaning out the storage building, run to wal-mart for her). When I was pregnant last year, I really needed her emotionally, and she was too busy for me. Which leads me to another issue. My sister-in-law. My mother prefers her to me, and spends alot of time with her. There's a long story with my sister-in-law, and she's treated my whole family poorly, including my mother, but that's beside the point. This is about my mother. I ask my mother to come see me, or if I can come visit, and if she doesn't have something for me to help her with, it's "oh, I don't really feel like company right now", but she's always with my sister-in-law. I've sat my mother down a few times and point-blank said "I love you, and I want to be closer to you. I want time with you. I miss you." She says "I'm sorry you feel that way." I don't place blame on her, I try to just tell her how I feel, and she clams up. I just feel used. I'm not her slave, I'm not her bank.
My mother treats my brother's son like gold. In fact, my nephew lives with my mom. But my daughter feels like an old shoe, because my mother no longer pays attention to her either. My husband is tired of seeing me cry over my mother & the hurtful things she says to me (on the phone.) And I can't blame him. My family is my husband & children. I'm trying to get past the pain of my mother, so I can be a better mother myself, and a better wife.
And Lovely, you are SO right. I do view this relationship as a lesson of what NOT to do with my own children.
OK. I DID write a book. But I really appreciate the time you guys have taken to give your own thoughts...

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cancerrg
unregistered
posted May 18, 2005 12:08 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
what if i was in your situation , i would have tried my best to cordial with them as u did but after a limit leave them on thier own which u are not doing . simply leave them , it doesn't mattter if your mom is cancer or not . when u respect yourself , then only others respect , always remember this fact of life .
best wishes to u .

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astro junkie
unregistered
posted May 20, 2005 03:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


There are a lot of toxic people in this world, and some happen to be our relatives ...

One astrological indication of trouble with mom is a Moon Opposite Saturn, which I have - Moon in Cancer in the 3rd House Opposite Saturn in Capricorn in the 9th House. Even the Houses are Opposite.

lovely* mentioned that the 4th House is important here. Do you know if you have any Planets in your 4th House? I have my Venus & Pluto in critical Virgo in my 4th House.

Looking over what you included about both your placements, you probably have a very critical eye for everything and everyone around you. Not just your mom. We've had discussions here before about which Signs or Aspects would contribute to one being or feeling taken advantage of. Virgo and Pisces came up the most, and that's your Sun, Ascendant & Moon. If you have Planets in the Houses ruled by those Signs, what I said is even moreso. That would be the 6th & 12th Houses.

What has happened to you is nothing short of horrible, and although many times we remind each other to take responsibility for our actions - you get a free pass here. Not your fault what happened to you. It's always the predator's fault, OK? Don't fall into the abyss of guilt Virgo & Pisces are very good at.

As for your mom, I honestly believe that what you desire from that relationship has gone way beyond her "love". What you really want is probably something more like forgiveness or acknowledgement at this point - do you see that? But that's a good topic for a good therapist.

Your mom is someone who is used to getting her way with seemingly much less effort than YOU put into EVERYTHING you do. I commend you for your efforts. Ball is in your court now ...

------------------
... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 20, 2005 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quazar~
I am glad you wrote that book.. Lindaland is a great place to vent and also get some insight.. or even better, people who can empathise.. it is really gratifying to know you are not the only one.
My mother is a Capricorn.
Cancer's opposite.. but similar in the 'she is lying' thing... they see it as they want, a lot of the times, undermining the person it is actually about, in order to project ( and protect) their version of their world.
I have had very very similar experiences, in feeling I was undermined, my feelings less valuable somehow, than the pople who shouldn't matter as much to her.....
I had a boyfriend that abused me, the first man I fell in love with in fact,(I was fifteen) and there was a pregnancy scare even, all these horrid things happened because of it, and she nurtured me through it.....
Then, the same guy who did these things to me started coming back around, she ignored my feelings, and invited him around anyway. He helped her paint her house and stuff.... but she knew it bothered me. *and of course it did!!!)
Well... a few years later, one of her 'adopted daughters' ( she is mom to everyone) had a boyfriend who abused her, and she practically ran him out of the house, and then had the nerve to come to me and say how anyone could do this, blah blah blah.. just outrage.
I agreed with her, but then asked her, point blank.. :"If it is so bad in this scenario, why did you invite the guy who did this to your own daughter, back around again....?" * he threatened to tie her up, me up, and my brother up, if I didn't have his baby.. and kill them as I watched, then kill me......a real pleasant guy.... she conveniently forgot*
She had some stupid excuse...... "You said he only pushed you.."
I'm like "wow, thanks for rewriting history because it is more comfortable for you."

Anyway ( see? The therapy of Lindaland .)
My point is... it is hard to be honest and raw, when those who love you do't feel comfortable with it.
I can't tell you the times I have sat down with her, and blatently tried to heal all these things.... it isn't going to happen.
It happens in moments..... and I think that is good ebnough for now, as some things are too painful.
Concentate on your family, and be the best from this experience that you can be.
to you.
For real.

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 4783
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 20, 2005 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome!

------------------
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Lewis Carroll

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Quazar
unregistered
posted May 22, 2005 05:01 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astro junkie-I do have Neputune (Sagg) in my 4th house, and Venus (Leo) in my 12th house. You are correct, I do tend to have a critical for everything & everyone around me, and it's something that I try to keep in check.
You said it's possible that perhaps it's more than "love" I want from my mother, but also acknowledgement & forgiveness. I haven't thought of that before, but I think you're right. Definately a different light for me to view my situation in...

And Pixelpixie-Thank you for sharing with me. It actually took a little weight off of my shoulders to know that someone else has sort of the same issues going on with their mother also. I DO feel undermined by my mother, almost everytime I speak with her.

All your replies & understanding have been a little dose of "therapy" for me. I really want to be able to focus on MY family, and not feel so AFFECTED by my mother. I'm trying to change how I react to her.

Thank you for the warm welcome, Randall! I do feel very welcome here. There seems to be alot of warm spirited people around here, and I hope to get to know everyone better...

Love,
Quazar

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cancerrg
unregistered
posted May 23, 2005 01:23 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HY pixel ,
u know your experience proves my belief that somethings in life are simply not meant to be . my father (libra ) and i have never got along , no matter how hard i tried , and honestly i did try but now i know its all futile , it was never meant to be . let the things go , move on - thats the best we can do.

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valcap
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: manteo nc usa
Registered: Sep 2009

posted May 23, 2005 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for valcap     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi! Your post struck such a chord in me. In fact, I posted an almost identical one here a while back! I visit Lindaland every day( as a reader,not poster) and know there is wisdom afloat here. I am also a grown woman with two children and a buttload of mother issues. For a while i was leaning toward the "cut her out of my life" route. In fact, i was pretty much searching for validation from the universe that that was an okay path to take...But something inside of me knows that while that is certainly okay to do, I am capable of taking a better path. I NEED to take a better path. I read every book on forgiveness i can get my hands on. i meditate on forgiveness. I pray for the ability to open my heart up to forgiveness. i remind myself that there are parents who have forgiven their children's murderers. And yet this simple concept alludes me still. It is such a daily struggle, and there are times when i feel so very worn down with it all. I am in one of those times right now, and i have a lump in my throat every waking moment. I am so disappointed in myself, and so hurt by my Mom. I just want you to know that there are other people who struggle with the very same issues as you do. I wish i could tell you the master formula for fixing it, but all i can offer is the fact that you are not alone.

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sue g
unregistered
posted May 23, 2005 03:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a Capricorn mother who for years ****** me off big time. My husband would tell you, I used to wind up crying about both my parents, especially if Id had a drink or two. I CANNOT believe that was me. I feel now I am older, and they are now 80 and 78, things have changed drastically, I make them listen to me, in a gentle but assertive way, and the relationship has changed from them being in control, to being very equal. My mother, like Pixies, would always see things as she wanted to. I can remember feeling physically sick with anger at her, she was always so in DENIAL and so cold too. I now know inside she is full of love for my sister and I, but it has always been a controlling and conditional love (sorry mum). My father says she still wakes up in the morning, screaming our names - how strange is that - I am 46, my sis is 53. The bottom line for her was (and she has admitted this) she wanted us to be carbon copies of her (ha ha), I couldnt have turned out more opposite!! I have seen her snear at the way I dressed, deride me for what I believe in, instead of offering support, say things like "dont tell me anything thats gonna worry me" and then if I did, she would say "oh my God our Susan, what are you going to do"? She would panic so much it would make me feel unsafe and insecure. SO how did I heal this guys, well you know the answer, firstly I met a guy who said to me "you have to start standing up to them" and then for the past 15 years or so Ive done the therapy and healing thing and it has SAVED me. To date I am not screwed up by my mum, in fact I am at a place where I can see the gifts I have inherited from her (deeply spiritual woman), and then when she says something silly, I just put the phone down and say YAY I love her, but dont care what she thinks, cos I know deep down, despite all that negativity, she truly loves me

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lovely*
unregistered
posted May 23, 2005 03:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astro, I have pluto in the 4th too. Early childhood emotional shocks from one or both parents are typical. In short, its about creating emotional security within the self as opposed to relying on others, particularly parents..

If you haven't read it, Jeff Green's book "Pluto, The Evolutionary Journey of the Soul" is truly enlightening.

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Deira
unregistered
posted May 23, 2005 04:50 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Quazar,


Your post reminds me so much of my own life, I totally feel for you. I wanted to recommend a really good self help book, "Toxic Parents" by Dr. Susan Forward. You can buy it really cheap at Amazon, or if you'd like I could mail you a copy.

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Quazar
unregistered
posted May 24, 2005 12:21 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Valcap, I can relate to your desire to embrace forgiveness... It's a difficult thing to do. Anger is a bitter seed that hardens the heart, I don't want to be bitter! Of all the people a person can have in their life, it's amazing what a profound effect our mothers have on us, even as adults...

And Deira, thank you for the book recommendation... I'm getting ready to head on over to amazon.com right now...

Love,
Quazar

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26taurus
unregistered
posted May 24, 2005 02:53 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Quazar,

Looks like your Sun squares your mother's Saturn. Oftentimes in parent/child relationships like this, there is a hard Saturn aspect from the parent to one of the child's personal planets.

Your situation sounds similar to my own with my mother. Very painful and unhealthy. Her Saturn is in an exact opposition to my Sun. I've been contemplating cutting off all contact with her ever since I can remember. I just cant seem to do it completely yet. Though lately, I've felt like I'm almost there. But the other part of me says I must forgive and forget. But I dont know how much more I can take from her. I dont want to be bitter either, but she makes it so hard.

All the best to you.

Deira, I want to check out that book now. Thanks.

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lovely*
unregistered
posted May 24, 2005 11:48 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All this stuff is making me that much more aware of my own relationship with my daughter.

26T, good point about the Sun sq. Saturn. this can create an inferiority complex on the part of the Saturn. Saturn needs the light from the Sun to "warm its chilled bones"...(according to Liz Green)..

Melissa

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astro junkie
unregistered
posted June 03, 2005 01:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quazar -

I want to clarify and make clear what I said about "forgiveness" or "acknowledgment" ... I said it's probably gone "beyond" love which you seek. In your reply you reinterpreted it as you needing "more" but also, which to me, would mean that you expected love PLUS more - and that's not what I meant.

My thinking is that somewhere inside of you, you've truly given up expecting love from her - so you've gone BEYOND that to the point to where simple forgiveness or acknowledgement would suffice. Does that make sense? It is a form of matrydom on your part.

And then valcap brought up forgiveness, which indeed goes hand in hand with what I'm saying. The reason why forgiveness IS so difficult is because if we don't understand what it is or how to do it, it DOES make us feel like a martyr to the antagonist.

So learn what forgiveness is and begin to practice it. I say practice because it's a lifelong process. It is also most difficult for those of us prone to martyrdom. We say we forgive, but we're still left holding the torch, and that's not what we want or else the act of forgiveness would otherwise be called self-sabotage.

Forgiveness will go hand in hand with your ability to create boundaries, and with your ability to walk the walk as a person deserving of self-respect. Forgiveness is for YOU, and MORE for you than the other person. Don't romanticize it because it's never a done deal.


lovely* -

Thank you for the book recommendation. I think you've mentioned that one before too. Didn't you? I usually don't save old threads.


Deira -

Hadn't heard of that one. Thanks for that recommendation too.

------------------
... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness

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