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Author Topic:   Facing your Saturn
SunChild
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From: Melbourne. Victoria. Australia
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 20, 2005 02:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Facing your Saturn

You can't choose the ways in which you'll be tested. - Robert J. Sawyer
In astrological circles it is often said that you should be active in handling planetary energies. For instance Thorwald Dethlefsen (Sagittarius) in The Challenge of Fate claims, that in entering a Saturn phase the time is ripe for reducing any activities of an expansive outgoing nature. "Avoid parties and social gatherings, amusement and lavishness. Try during that time to wear predominantly black clothing and go for frequent walks in cemeteries." He further advises us to have a sparingly furnished room where to retire, painted either all white or all black, perhaps putting the thirteenth Tarot card (death) on the wall and a skull on the table.

This sounds something you might expect to hear from someone who have heard some juicy rumors about a bad Saturn but has never really lived with a truly difficult Saturn, or any kind of Saturn. When you have a true close encounter with a strong Saturn, it is often much healthier - both in bodily sense and for your mental balance - to listen to Elbert Benjamine (C C Zain) who says, that those who have a badly afflicted Saturn need harmonious Venus- and Sun-thoughts (and in their diets various mineral salts, vitamins and proteins). If you try to handle a difficult Saturn by wearing black clothes and walking on cemeteries, you may just get your own place there all too soon.

Sometimes it is true that energies can be handled on a mental or psychic level without any need to materialize them. For instance Veijo Meri, a well-known Finnish writer, once said that if you experience evil mentally, it will not materialize. Meri (Mars opposite Saturn) said that he does this to the utmost, he dramatizes even the smallest misfortunes as much as he possibly can.For Meri and other people with similar charts this may even work: Meri has his lucky stars - a grand trine in earth signs - and his Saturn has only one hard angle...

But I wouldn't suggest trying the same with a truly hard and strong Saturn without any lucky stars to ease the situation. Dramatizing your smallest misfortunes might soon overwhelm you and make you feel like you had been given a death sentence. Just darkness and difficulties everywhere. The more you dramatize your difficulties, the more difficulties you will meet. The less you dramatize your difficulties, the less you will have them. It's the same with all configurations: different people have to work them out in different or even in opposite ways. For instance, some may work out their aggressions by punching something, others doing the same would just feel bad. For some imagining evil things might be helpful, for others it would just bring more evil into their lives.


LIVING WITH SATURN

With a really powerful Saturn, it's usually not wise to resort to any unnecessary dramatics, playing with negative images or symbolic encounters isn't often what Saturn wants. Rather Saturn wants teach us how to encounter everything, even the so-called evil, in a very concrete way. Saturn externalizes things to make sure that we learn its lessons thoroughly and in practical life. Saturn teaches things through real life, not through imagination or mind games.

And you can't handle real evil by imagining negative things. Only imaginary evils can be handled that way. When you truly meet hardships and evil things, it is wiser to be persistent in concentrating your mind on something positive. According to a real Saturn expert, William James (The Sun, the Moon and four planets in Capricorn) positive images of the future are a powerful and magnetic force. They draw us on and energize us, give us courage, negative images pull the spirit downward towards despair and impotence.

Thus with a truly powerful Saturn handling energies on a mental or inner level doesn't prevent them from materializing, because for Saturn even the most delicate inner experiences and thoughts are just nonsense until those thoughts has been tested on the practical level. When you try to handle Saturn using imaginary means, all that happens is that one day Saturn will show you who really runs the show: Wearing black clothes and imagining horrors may make your imaginings come true = you meet worse horrors than you even imagined.

It may take a long time though, often so long that you will never see the connection between your imaginings and sufferings, you just wonder where did all these problems come, weren't all that already encountered on the mental level. In reality they probably weren't, most likely there was just an accumulation of energies and a postponing of things into the future. Neptune may work things out on an imaginary level and visualize whatever it wants without ever meeting its fantasies on the physical level. But with a difficult Saturn - or Saturn-Neptune - things are different.

Saturn doesn't only give you an ability to work hard and keep on struggling when others would already give up. Saturn also, especially with Neptune, gives a gift of materializing thoughts and ideas on the physical level. But that may also mean that it may no longer be wise to imagine things you would not want to meet in reality. Try imagining evil things, and that is what you will meet...


EVERYTHING IN MODERATION!

With Saturn only moderation works in the long run, don't go into extremes even in concentrating on the positive. If you show a lack of moderation, in anything, you may just aggravate Saturn to teach you a lesson in moderation and to show you who's who and what's what... With Saturn problems cannot be handled purely on an imaginary level, neither can they be avoided by being a light-hearted model example of ultra positivism. Saturn would just offer you some harder lessons later on.

Positive thinking can get you far in many things, but in Saturnians things and in Saturnian life usually not without some serious work. Trying to turn your back on negative things may work for a while, at least if your Saturn hasn't any hard angles. But even then usually only for a while. William James said that the method of turning your attention away from the evil and living only under the good, is a method that proves impossible as soon as melancholy arrives. And it will prove impossible, even wikthout melancholy, just under severe environmental pressures...

With Saturn you should also never use any artificial means or exaggerations. According to C.E.O. Carter "attempts to "drive" Saturn are usually a waste of time and energy; if Saturn can be in any sense overcome, it is by patience and industrious persistence. In fact, all what happens when you try to "drive"Saturn is, that Saturnian energies accumulate and become more powerful. If Neptune is strong as well, it may mean that all those accumulated gloomy energies in your psychic surroundings will gather around you. In time you'll have to face all those accumulated Saturn (and Neptune) energies together. And that might be more than you could handle.


WORK WITH THE POSITIVE

If you want to live in harmony with a strong and difficult Saturn, you need too things: first of all you have to learn self-discipline, whether it fits with your personality otherwise or not. And you have to discipline your mind, but not too much. What you need is a reasonably good attempt, not a compulsive desire to be in control and to succeed. In the Saturnian world good work is always rewarded somehow, but yet that is not important, a sincere attempt is all that matters for Saturn.

Above all you have to become aware of your problems, to admit all your own failures and weaknesses, not to others, but to yourself. In other words you have to face your shadow. If you have not yet done this, concentrating on Saturnian symbols, may even be a good thing if done in moderation. But if you have already encountered your shadow, or perhaps have been living too close to your shadow, to your unconscious, you shouldn't concentrate on Saturnian things. And especially if you have been living too close to the collective unconscious wearing black clothes and focusing on death and gloomy things, might mean that you would even meet collective shadow. And that is something most of us would want to avoid.

A strong Saturn takes care of the Saturnian elements in your life, there is no need for you to attract more Saturn into your life by wearing black or by using any other tricks. You may think that you are just choosing the level for Saturn to work at, but Saturn is not easily fooled. It will teach its lessons the way it sees fit, it will not be manipulated. Instead of inviting more Saturnian elements with black clothes or cemetery walks, focus your attention on things that give you positive energy you can use in learning your lessons, thus concentrate on Venus, the Sun, or even Neptune depending on your birth-chart.

Sometimes focusing on the sign opposite your Saturn sign is also very helpful, even events often seem to lead us there. For instance, Saturn in depth-oriented Scorpio may be teaching you to be practical in a Taurean earthy way. It is like in many healing methods - you heal either with something similar or with something opposite. Although there are some exceptions, very often problems caused by a weak Saturn are solved with an extra dose of Saturn (perhaps even using Dethlefsen's methods), but problems caused by an overly strong and difficult Saturn should be handled in the opposite way, by concentrating on something positive. And of course, hard work wouldn't hurt in either case.

You could also say that Dethlefsen's tricks might work with those who have for long been avoiding their Saturn - and their shadow. But using same tricks when you have already been living with a hard Saturn, perhaps focusing too much on your shadow, you run the risk of meeting a similar fate with Robert Burton (Saturn conjunct MC), who composed his book (The Anatomy of Melancholy) in order to relieve his own melancholy but instead became so melancholic that nothing could no longer make him laugh. And it was rumored that even some of his readers met a similar fate.

Thus, what is good for someone with an easy Saturn, may destroy one with a strong and bad Saturn. You can jump over lower walls, but may not want to do the same with a ten-meter high stone wall. A wise man knows that fighting may sometimes just add more fighting into life, and inviting Saturnian elements into your life when you have more than enough already, might just overwhelm you with new and self-created problems and negativity. http://koti.mbnet.fi/neptunia/index.htm

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"The dream was always running ahead of me. To catch up, to live for a moment in unison with it, that was the miracle." Anais Nin

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ice Mists
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posted May 20, 2005 09:02 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks Sunchild, that's real interesting, havn't read the others yet, will be doing that..hmm can see you've a thing for saturn

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Happy Dragon
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posted May 20, 2005 09:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SC great timing ..
i've got a tSat square nSat on at moment
cheers again for post ..
time to reflect somewaht

cheers
hd

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Saturn's Child
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posted May 20, 2005 11:59 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is good, and answers some questions for me. I do believe Saturn is touchy and I know I have gone too far one way or the other (both) trying to push Saturn and/or ignore (ha!)it.
Good lessons on Saturn SunChild, thanks!

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Tranquil Poet
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posted May 20, 2005 01:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just know I have saturn in Libra.



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crystelle
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posted May 20, 2005 07:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would someone please help me get a better grasp on Saturn's return?

I know that we will have a Saturn return around the age from 28-30. Is there a way to calculate it exactly?

I am going to be 28 in December, and I feel like I have been encountering my Saturn return now for about a year or more. Is that possible?

Life is obviously never a cake walk, but over the last year + I feel that I have been taking hit after hit after hit.

(december 30, 1977 10:03AM Nashville, TN)

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taurean_scorpion
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posted May 21, 2005 02:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Saturn in Capricorn in the 6th..
and
Uranus in 6th and Neptune in 7th in Capricorn also.

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taurean_scorpion
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posted May 21, 2005 02:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Saturn in Capricorn in the 6th..
and
Uranus in 6th and Neptune in 7th in Capricorn also.

I get depressed very easily under pressure or stressed like it says up there. And i read some where that I might suffer from hypochondria and I did have it long time ago for years.

Thanks SunChild for this....i think saturn's extremely important in our charts...

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Isis
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From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: May 2009

posted May 21, 2005 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ya Crystelle, Saturn return is a bizatch, for sure...but you come out the other side of it better for it I think. For me it began around the beginning of 26 and ended at about 29, the worst of it being 27 & 28.

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crystelle
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posted May 21, 2005 10:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isis,

Is there any way to calculate exactly when it returns? Or do you just know it when it is there?!

(my partner is 28- also encountering his saturn return- and my mom is encountering her 2nd return. We are all making it through a really tough time together. Interesting how we all ended up kind of together during this time.)

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pixelpixie
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From: ON Canada
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posted May 21, 2005 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Run you transits, find out the exact degrees of tSaturn compared to your nSaturn/personal planets..
Saturn 'returns' as the orb grows tighter toward a conjunction.
But it also aspects other planets, depending on where they are in your n chart.

I'm mid-Saturn return.
whhheeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
*not a fun ferris wheel.. more like impatiently waiting in line, and then forgetting your tickets.....
then you find them, but have to go wait some more....
then maybe you can get on a great ride....

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Tranquil Poet
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posted May 21, 2005 10:53 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My boyfriend's 29 and is about to go through his.

His saturn is in Leo.


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crystelle
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posted May 22, 2005 05:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for your help pixelpixie. I suppose astro.com is the best place to do this?

So, as far as the Saturn Return's lesson/s, is your natal Saturn's placement significant?

I have Saturn at 0 degrees Virgo in the 6th house/ retrograde. Does this give my Saturn Return a certain theme?

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crystelle
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posted May 22, 2005 05:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pixie,

I attempted to do this on astro.com...

Do I select progressed and natal chart?

Another question, if you dont mind:

What are some ways to make sure you "face" the return? I know that it's said that if you dont, you will have an even harder time of it the next round. I mean, how do you really avoid saturn's return? I dont think I could if I wanted to. Do some people actually get out of it? Maybe this is a silly question... Am I making sense?

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crystelle
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posted May 26, 2005 01:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

anyone?


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pixelpixie
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From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 26, 2005 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, I lost my password/user abilities, but I am back.....

Facing anything is better when you are aware of what you are facing.
With this in mind, free will is also (of course) a factor in anything.
Some people face their crisises earlier, and with seemingly no harshness.... just typicl life stuff..
But if you aren't where you 'should' be, to mark your adulthood, whatever that means in your life ( Saturn lessons... discipline) Then you will find an increasing awareness, and a need to put yourself where you want to be..
Old relationship, not what you need? Bye!
Old career not satisfying? Bye!
Time to put up or shut up.

Yes, go to www.astro.com and go to natal charts and transits... I find it is easier to navigate when you click on extended tables... acrobat?

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**** Yes, it is me, I put chocolate and peanut butter in the password slot, and even after I licked it off, alas, it wouldn't work anymore. So now I am new. Even though I have been here for tooooo long ( for some )I had like 9000 posts.. maybe you can help me make more?
Happy to be back!

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amisha121877
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posted May 26, 2005 03:26 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i have saturn in virgo - astro.com says that it was in my first house / in my natal chart. along with a few other planets, it was retrograde.

currently, saturn is in cancer - either at the end of my 11th house or the very beginning of my 12th house.

thanks for the information, by the way - really appreciate it. the link pretty much explained a few blank/blind spots for me.

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crystelle
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posted May 26, 2005 07:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
pixelpixie,

Thank you for your advice! makes sense.

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26taurus
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posted May 26, 2005 07:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This might help you out!
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005469.html

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DayDreamer
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posted May 26, 2005 10:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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BlueRoamer
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posted May 26, 2005 10:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Crystellle:

You've been dealing with saturn opposition to your sun the past year-year and a half...now you will come up on the saturn return. Hey, at least they didn't come at the same time!!

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Wednesday
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posted September 04, 2006 09:31 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep Saturn is teaching me how to be more spontaneous.

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