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Author Topic:   Help: T-Square or Grand Cross?
DayDreamer
unregistered
posted June 21, 2005 05:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have no clue where to look, and have very little understanding of the influence a T-Square (or is it a Grand Cross) has in my chart.

Can someone please enlighten me. Is this something I should be worried about? How can I work on this??


This is what I have...

Moon Opposition Saturn 2°33
Moon Square Neptune 4°29
Moon Square Ascendant 6°14
Saturn Square Ascendant 3°41
Saturn Square Neptune 7°02

Additional info on each planets location:
Ascendant Gemini 09°04'15
Moon Pisces 15°18'04 11 direct
Saturn Virgo 12°45'02 05 retrograde
Neptune Sagittarius 19°46'39 07 direct

Extra info:
Venus Sagittarius 23°50'14 07 direct (conjunct Neptune)
True Node Virgo 17°56'46 05 retrograde

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Almost An Angel
unregistered
posted June 21, 2005 06:40 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
:::WAVES HELLO:::

Hey DayDreamer. Ya know, there's a section over at astro.com that tells if there's T-Squares and such present in a chart... follow my lead:

1. Scroll down to the 'Extened Chart Selection' of the site and click on it.

2. Once the link's open, look to 'Pullen/Astrolog' and click on it.

3. When that link's open, drag your cursor underneath the title 'Please select the type of chart you want' all the way down until you see 'Simple chart delineation by Walter Puller', then, directly next to that, press on the 'Click here to show the chat' button.

4. From there a whole load of exra information about your chart will appear. Proceed to scroll all the way down to the end of the 1st block of writing. In between that 1st block of writing and the 2nd that starts below, it's there they'll note of any major aspect configuarions you've got going in your chart... if you haven't any then it'll just simply say so.


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beebuddy
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posted June 22, 2005 04:02 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
a long time ago i started a thread called "ADD YOUR COOL LINKS HERE!"

the first post in the thread is an excellent article about the major aspect configurations. ill bump it for you.

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DayDreamer
unregistered
posted June 22, 2005 05:26 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Almost An Angel , you know what's really weird I just discovered that part of astro.com the day before you posted this. I read a bit of the interpretations, but I guess I must have skipped the part you were talking about.

This is what I have:
T-Square from Nep: 19Sag46'39" to Moo: 15Pis18'04" and Sat: 12Vir45'02"

I was thinking my ASC would be involved as well to make a Grand Cross, since it squares my Moon and Saturn.

Beebuddy I'm going to take a look at those websites and see what sense I can make of this Grand Cross.

Thanks

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beebuddy
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posted June 22, 2005 05:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am assuming that the moon is the focal planet in your T-square. the area opposite the focal planet in your chart (the are directly opposite the moon) is called the empty leg and is the area of life that the t-square will manifest.

dont worry, t-squares might make you crazy, but they almost always lead to a successful life! even though its made of an opposition and two squares its not really considered bad by many astrologers.

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DayDreamer
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posted June 22, 2005 06:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey beebuddy

That's quite possibly it! My Moon, is conjunct my South Node...so I'm not suppose to be going there this life time.

My chart looks like this

......................Moon.....................
Ascendant................................Neptune
......................Saturn................

Moon Opposite Saturn, everything is squared, but ASC is not Opposite Neptune

My empty leg would be my ASC...so what does this mean? Keep up a mask and live a facade? Maybe become an adept communicator?

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Almost An Angel
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posted June 23, 2005 09:59 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're welcome, DayDreamer.

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DayDreamer
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posted June 28, 2005 12:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hoping someone could help me out here...

I've read everywhere that Saturn opposite Moon means depression, and a poor relationship with your mother.

And Saturn square Neptune leads to inner tensions, feelings of inferiority, and inhibitions

And Moon square Neptune causes problems distinguishing real and non-real.

Plus I have Ascedant square Moon and Neptune...but not certain about the orbs.

I don't think I have all of the problems above, so I'm curious would the combined effect of the t-square change the mix?

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Planet_Soul
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posted June 28, 2005 09:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi DD,

I have those same placements along with Sun in Sag in the mix. T square Sun, Moon, and Saturn. The negativity is more of a challenge, use the energy constructivly. I did have a lot of problems with my mom, mostly due to misunderstandings and lack of honest communication. Since getting more in touch with my very afflicted moon energy, things have been much, much better. Its just up to you how you use all that force.

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DayDreamer
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posted June 29, 2005 01:50 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Planet_Soul

How was the T-square for you growing up? And how are you going about dealing with it?

When I was a child I struggled alot with this. Most of my problems didn't start till I was about 7-8 I think. I used to feel sorry for my mother, and still do to a degree...which isn't exactly the way daughters are suppose to view their mothers. And I think all the problems with this square have to do with how my parents treated me, and didn't treat me in my growing years. Father was abusive, and mother was in another world (Saturn opposite Mooon, and both square Neptune)

I think I'm also out of that depressing phase now. When I was researching this T-square I found a few successful people and world leaders, with something similar. Will have to find it again and post it here.

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Happy Dragon
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posted June 29, 2005 11:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DayDreamer

**** Is this something I should be worried about? *****
NO .. rule number one .. thou shalt not worry

*****I don't think I have all of the problems above, so I'm curious would the combined effect of the t-square change the mix?*****

i've got this thread bookmarked .. an a reply half typed .. however recently read this about 'disassociation' .. no idea if it applies in your case .. anyhow it's got me thinking as i have 'cross' in my chart .. but in one respect it has depended on the transits ( and how i've handled said transits ) .. sometimes it's been 'blowup time' .. others quite pleasant although challenging in one way or another ..

maybe u could post your d.o.b. etc .. would give a better picture to see the chart ..
in the meantime .. here are a couple of scans i've posted elsewhere re chart aspects 'n such
http://www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/hdpics/mas.disa.jpg
http://www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/hdpics/miasppt.jpg

... the placements involved ( in your list ) .. for the most .. would depend on an accurate birth time .. i be thinking of the Moon and Asc.

'later
hd

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DayDreamer
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posted June 29, 2005 06:40 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks HD I'll try not to worry...looking for reasons not to.

I'm not sure if disassociation will apply to me, or will it? I have all the T-square planets in mutuable signs, but they are in different elements...Pisces, Virgo, Sagittarius, with a Gemini Rising...from your scans it looks like the planets fall in "unsympathetic" signs.

BTW, those links were insightful. I've never heard of the disasociation pattern before.

My DOB is Jan 30/79, Thompson Manitoba, Canada. I was born around noon...give or take 10-15 mins.

I'm stumped and off in dream world most of the time...So I would more than appreciate what you come up with.

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Planet_Soul
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posted June 29, 2005 06:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey DD,


Well, when I was growing up I saw my mother as a weak person. My stepdad is very conservative and controlling, and would often verbally insult her for being overweight and for having had a child out of wedlock (me). They'd constantly argue, threaten to seperate, and ask us kids to pick sides. Growing up in that house was no picnic, and yeah it sucks for a daughter to see her mother justing going with that kind of flow. For years I was was a lot more angry at her for being passive than him for being him. When I learned more about astro and saw that I have all these squares and oppositions with the Sun, Moon, and Saturn, it was no surprise. It has taken much inner work and reflection to deal with. My parents are still surprisingly together, and I've learned seperate their issues from me. With books and psych courses, I've learned much about myself and am now able to relate to them in a nondefensive manner as an adult.

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DayDreamer
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posted June 29, 2005 07:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Planet_Soul

Sounds like my situation...I was more upset over my mother being weak than my father being cruel...and in my case surprisingly they're are also still together! They aren't an influence on me now. Nowhere near compared to how much of an impact they had on me as a child. Astrology and faith have played a big part in helping me learn about myself and come out stronger...but I still find myself reverting back to some old tendancies, which I would like to have more control over.

What signs and houses are your planets in?

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Planet_Soul
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posted June 30, 2005 03:05 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD,


Yes, my parents don't arouse negativity in me anymore either. I embraced my eceltic spirtual path, which has been a blessing and a source of self understanding. It appears that they don't argue anymore the way they used to, and I've learned to just accept them for who they are. For some years after I moved out, I'd have long periods where I'd just isolate myself from them. Now, I will not tolerate negativity from them but I've been reaching out a lot more. They key was for me to stop hoping they'd cchange, and instead change my reactions/feelings to them.

This is my chart:
Sun: Sag house 12/1
Moon: Pisces house 3/4
Mercury: Sag house 12
Venus: Scorp house 11
Mars: Sag house 1
Jupiter: Leo house 8
Saturn: Virgo house 9
Uruanus: Scorp house 11
Neptune: Sag house 1
Pluto: Libra MC

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beebuddy
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posted June 30, 2005 02:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi day dreamer, ive been away from the computer lately. it seems every time we post on the same thread im becoming notoriously flakey.

im gonna look at your chart and play with the times and get back to you.

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beebuddy
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posted June 30, 2005 03:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok, based on a 12pm birth time it looks like you have a stellium in aquarius with the sun, mercury and mars, and a t-square with neptune (sagg), moon (pisc) and saturn (virgo).

one thing you should know is that an 11:30am birth time would change your ascendent from gemini to taurus so its important that you find out from the hospital what time you were born if you can.

what i am seeing is that neptune is actually the focal planet which falls in the 7th house. this means that the house opposite the focal planet is the first house. that means that the first house is the empty leg... as you said.

now i gave and took 15 minutes and your chart still shows the stellium and the t-sqaure at the 11:45am and the 12:15pm birth times.

now here is my expert advice (just kidding)... i think you are simply over-thinking things. i know that sounds cheesy and unhelpful on its surface but, there you have it.

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DayDreamer
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posted June 30, 2005 06:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Planet_Soul

With both Moon and Saturn squaring your Sun in the 12th house...I would say even if things are better between your parents and with you now, there has still got to be some problems you are not consciously aware of you should try figuring out. Maybe work on your soul a bit more


BeeBuddy...what do you mean you're becoming "notoriously flakey"? Thanks for looking at my chart I tried contacting my hospital about my birthtime, but I don't even live in the same province anymore...maybe I'll give them a ring one last time.

I have a feeling that i'm overlooking things too...that's why I'm asking for insight about these hard aspects. I need to realize how not to overlook things, but to work and live with them...maybe turn it into something helpful and beautiful

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Happy Dragon
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posted June 30, 2005 07:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DayDreamer ..

... i've a chart with asc. at 19:49 gemini .. but will wait 'n see if u get your birthtime ...
.. i see no T-sqare ( without b.t. ) but some oppositions .. in the meantime .. you have a couple of
inportant transits .. one being Pluto conjoining natal Venus .. tNept be hovering just
off natal Urns .. Chiron getting close to Merc ( and possible MC ) ..
all those be retro at moment ( i think .. will re check ) ..

will check back later to see if b.t. is available .. as the pic changes over 10/20 min ..
i.e. different houses/mc/asc. ...

.. 12 noon would put your Asc. at a square to your Moon / Saturn .. but 5 min either way
starts to negate that .. maybe see how certain short term transits .eg. mars .. feel when
they approach the points represented by the theoretical ( untill b/t/ is known ) T .. and
when the points in between are effected by a short term transit .. i.e. wide T squares and
g-crosses have overlaps in degrees .. when transiting planets get into those overlaps they
can be felt as well ..

'til later

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DayDreamer
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posted June 30, 2005 08:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
19:49 gemini??

Well...I usually go with what my mother tells me...that i was born at 12pm. Is this for Thompson, Manitoba, Canada? I got my info from over on astro.com where it says my asc would be at 9:24 gemini for 12 noon.

I'm going to try calling my hospital maybe tomorrow and see if I can get my birth time...would they even have it on file? Last time I contacted them they weren't helpful. If all else fails go for 12 noon...I've bugged my mother about this for years...and she keeps sticking to her answer.

Hmmm if Neptune is around Uranus, then it must also be trining my Moon. And Chiron is probably stirring up some feelings. Can tell Pluto/Venus is there.

Thanks HD

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beebuddy
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posted June 30, 2005 09:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the "notoriously flakey" is just a daydream

what i really meant was that every time we post on the same thread it seems like i am unable to keep up with the conversation because i am away from the comp... kinda flakey of me if you ask me. but thats just cause i get annoyed when i ask a question on a thread and the person never responds... i say they "flaked".

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beebuddy
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posted June 30, 2005 09:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Happy D, what astro system do you use, if you dont mind me asking?

i dont know enough about them to really make any sort of judgement on any one or another. im just curious about the different ones and its not so easy to get good explanations about the different systems.

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DayDreamer
unregistered
posted June 30, 2005 09:50 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aaahhhh.....

Did I miss you again?? Oops I mean are you flaking on me again? Maybe some moisturizer will help...or some glue...to get you stuck on your computer seat


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DayDreamer
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posted June 30, 2005 09:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I don't know what your talking about being notoriously flakey for...you just lost that title....seems like your glued to your seat right now.

Yeah I was wondering the same thing HD, what astro system do you use...never seen the likes before....with the kewl black background and coloured planets.

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beebuddy
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posted June 30, 2005 09:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yea i am job hunting right now so i am glued!

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