posted July 08, 2005 07:27 AM              

A city that survived the Blitz night after night throughout all the years of World War 2 can certainly bounce back after this.

posted July 08, 2005 01:39 PM              

i really feel sad .
especially b'cos its being done in the name of islam .

posted July 08, 2005 05:43 PM            

And yesterday, I went through Atocha station in the line that was bombed in Madrid on the 11M heading to work at the same time that the bombs exploded that fated day 16 months ago.

Scary or what?

Leyla, didn’t you have your boyfriend in London??? That cute Pisces you went to visit… Is he all right? Truly hope he is…

Cancerrg, we have terrorist attacks here in Spain as well, remember ETA? And the brits have had them until recently (the IRA)… We are also used to bombs now and again… But this terror is different… It comes from very far, it is attacking innocent people as a revenge for being different and being born in another culture… From fanatic people who kill themselves in the name of God… That is what is scary, more than scary, terrifying… to imagine that there is such people around… Our own terrorists are also killers, but less barbaric and bordering madness…

posted July 09, 2005 01:38 PM              

i remember eta , i know the ira , and to use your words - this terror is different b'cos this was created by u only . america fathered al-qaeda , not me or u !

posted July 09, 2005 04:56 PM            

Say what, cancerrg?

posted July 10, 2005 08:39 AM              

quote:

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america fatered al-qaeda"
Say what, cancerrg?

'Zala

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??????

quote:

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...if people dont start realizing why people do extreme things most likely the sick cycle will never stop...open your eyes.

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posted July 10, 2005 09:04 AM            

I know it’s politic. But then it becomes something else. When people BELIEVE the victims deserve that horror. Because they have to endure suffering and war and they BELIEVE the others are guilty and responsible for it.

It’s easier killing demons than real people. They don’t kill real people, they slaughter demons, the western world demon… And it’s easier to demonise what is radically different from you. It is easier to demonise a dog than a person, easier to demonise a spider than a dog, easier to demonise a virus than a spider… It’s easier to hate a neighbour than a brother, easier to hate a stranger than a neighbour.

posted July 10, 2005 11:09 AM              

to what ?? that the terrorist leaders are probably in the main psychopathic ???

posted July 11, 2005 05:42 AM              

quote:

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cancerg u wrote . **america fatered al-qaeda** .. WRONG WRONG WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ..

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let me know how wrong am i ?

quote:

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***THE SAD FACT IS NO ONE WANTS TO OPEN THIER EYES**
to what ?? that the terrorist leaders are probably in the main psychopathic ???

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oh , how much right u are !
but before that tell me who gives them a chance to be so strong that they can influence whole of the socities - yours and mine .
the same people , when fighting the evil empire - soviet russia - are your friends and after that turn thier guns towards kashmir and else , dont bother u .why b'cos its not your blood thats being spilled .

in know your answer - kashmir wasn't created by us . i can answer that too but will leave it for some other time .

when militants are allowed to operate thier offices in london itself , it doesn't bother u b'cos thier guns are firing someone in distant third world country .
do u even know the " babar khalsa international " the one who were involved in kanishka air india , more than 350 people died over ireland, do u remember bombay bomb blast .
let me answer this for u , u dont .
it makes a difference to u when two bombs exploed in london , tell me was there a single frown on your face when seven bomb blasted simulataneously in bombay .
it doesn't bother u all . it s a local problem but the fact this local problem has its tentacles spread all over the world .

mullahs are psychopathic but then who supports those middle east authoritarian regimes that breed them .

when a bomb goes of in riyadh , its a muslim-muslim problem , when it does so in bombay , its a third world's idiotic problem but when the same bomb goes off in madrid or or london - its a bloody civilisation problem .

to hell with "clash of civilisations"

right ! dragon .

no culture/religion teaches u to hate others , its the misinterpratation that does. but ofcourse that misinterpretation is so ok to u when it suits u . try to come out of your clostes dragon .

thanks steelrose , let us take a pledge , we will try to change the thinking .let the world see the reason .that only can save it .

posted July 11, 2005 07:21 AM              

** try to come out of your clostes dragon .**

sorry .. i don't own a clostes as far as i know .. and if you think your going to draw me into a political debate .. you be wrong .. and you presume to know how i feel!!! .. i've done army service canserg .. seen 2 middle east conflicts from the best seat in town .. from behind the barrel of a gun .... ... "psychopathic" DO YOU HAVE THE SLIGHTEST NOTION OF WHAT THAT MEANS ?????

posted July 11, 2005 07:48 AM            

you know TELLING someone "GFYS" does not, and will not ever, get your "point" across,
yelling, screaming, stomping your feet, just makes people distant themselves, and cover ears,
when you try to get your opinion across,
please try to restraint yourself from this votaile behavior...

another thing just because you've been in the war, which who knows maybe youre just fabricating to get your point across, doesnt give you a green light in every political "discussion" you have with people.

there are always going to be people who have real experiences, real grievances, real pain, much more deeper than "being in a war"...because in their eyes their LIVES are war..

so dont think you will win every arguement and make people see the LIGHT because you might of been in a war...

posted July 11, 2005 08:30 AM              

I can see that perhaps we are, (shall we say,) at times 'blinkered' in the west to a certain extent as to who else is being persecuted, bombed, opressed and suffering the effects of terrorism.

However, I think it's very important that all of us wherever we're from remember not to judge people on their leaders or by the actions of a few of their countrymen/women. Or by the news coverage we receive which we really don't have a great deal of control over. Yes we may have voted for our respective governments initially but there's an awful lot that goes on without our consent or knowledge.

In Britain, there were an overwhelming amount of people who registered their opposition to going to war in Iraq for example (myslef included) and we marched peacefully through the streets of London, saying "Not in my name". This also happened in lots of other countries yet most of these countries have been attacked by terrorists because of their involvement in the war. It's the sad misunderstanding that occurs when politics is put above people.

I would rather ask the terrorists what they hope to achieve by their actions and why they think that this course of action will win them the victory they want as opposed to more peaceful means of demonstration. We could be said to be hypocritical as why did we choose to wage war on Saddam Hussein instead of finding a more peaceful route? I can understand that extreme poverty, opression and injustice can lead people to react in all manner of extraordinary ways, but as far as I know, killing never solved anything apart from creating more and more karma to work out.

I don't want anyone anywhere to be persecuted, opressed or killed. I can't bear injustice. And the injustice of killing innocent people to make a point just because you can't bring the argument to the person/people you have a real problem with (i.e. the governments) makes me simultaneously sick, angry, disappointed in the short sightedness of the action and desperately sad.

All nations have been guilty of doing this at some time or another. We have all killed in the name of something be it honour, freedom or just plain greed. It's wrong. It produces nothing but perpetual mistrust and karma to work through and I'm sick of it. Can't we just talk instead of bomb? Can't we discuss instead of marching into someone else's country and deciding how they must live?

People will no doubt call me naive for that simplistic view of how to solve problems. But they're only the people who find talking difficult and subsequently assume that it's more complicated than simply sitting down and exchanging views, ideas and desires. Talking is also far less costly than war or terrorism, so you'd think it would be far more preferable!

Please let's set an example here. Please let's agree to disagree and take each other's points of view on board even if we don't agree with them. To end karma, the old wise ones say we must forgive one another and more importantly love one another. Well I'll start the ball rolling shall I and put me money where me big mouth is!

posted July 11, 2005 02:43 PM            

There is no justification for invading a foreign country because people does not live under the rules you think are correct…(or because they politic regime threatens your position, I’m not that naive…) Everyone has to work out its own house rules. They may have had to fight their own war but it was their war to fight. The west is no god or almighty saviour… It was especially fishy due to economically and political implications, but that is another issue…

We opened a can of worms… That wasn’t our war… We fought ours in the past to defend our homes… Nobody called us there, we were unwanted strangers… We, Spaniards, also had a dictator… but I can assure you, nobody, not even the oppressed, would have wanted a bunch of foreigners bombing us to save us….

At the end of the day, this is only war. And war always feeds on innocents. The iraqi civils, the londoners, people from Madrid… All the same… Victims of greed and fanatism from both sides.

posted July 11, 2005 03:08 PM            

quote:

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america fatered al-qaeda"
Say what, cancerrg?
'Zala

??????

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Part of me is irate that many hundreds of thousands of people like you worldwide actually believe that the USA is the reason that Al Qaeda and such groups exist today, but most of me just feels hopeless and despondent at the fact that whatever I say is not going to matter one iota to you, after all, Western eyes are all closed to the rest of the world, so how could our individual opinions resonate with you anyway. I often wonder about the accusations of closed eyes vs. closed minds.

I also wonder sometimes at the perception that a country less than 300 years old could have ULTIMATE power and voice and control over theocracies that are thousands of years old. In my humble opinion, the parentage of Al Qaeda exists in those theocracies where wrenching poverty, unemployment, lack of education, and blatant injustice are promoted by the theocrats and tolerated day after day by the general population. I believe that the lack of anything productive or positive to do with their lives, and the brainwashing of un-religious spiritual leaders (mullahs, if you must indulge in pointing fingers), is what promotes the origins of terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda.

In my view, the Western world brought unwanted change to the rest of the globe. It is the lack of coping by governments, spiritual leaders, and ordinary people with this INEVITABLE change that causes the birth of such groups.

quote:

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tell me was there a single frown on your face when seven bomb blasted simulataneously in bombay .
it doesn't bother u all.

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I am truly saddened that you believe that I and my countrymen are ultimately responsible for the activities of terrorist groups.

'Zala

posted July 11, 2005 03:23 PM            

I could add a ton more and try to put your insolent attitude in check, but Zala has already done a beautiful job of explaining things as they really are.

Funny how some people want to point fingers at us, then justify that with "well, we have been bombed for years and welcome to our world...etc..." Hey, I am truly sorry for all loss of life, I am sorry that people do things of this nature - but I am not sorry that we fought back. I am not sorry that we defend the lives of those that are still here and on behalf of those murdered.

I am not sorry that Saddam is no longer in power and that he and his band of jerk-offs are no longer using children and torture implements in order to hurt their parents. I am glad that Saddam's psycho kids have lost their rape rooms - I am happy to see that Iraq is moving forward to real government that will work on behalf of the people. I am also happy to see that we have gone to war to STOP Iraq from training the very terrorists that had led these types of attacks. REMEMBER... WAR was declared on the US and we are fighting back. IF you have an illegal drug operation in your state, do you not break it up or do you just WAIT until the thugs start dealing on specific streets? We are breaking up training sites and setting a country back on track - yet some people can't tolerate this - so it comes back as 'well America brought this on themselves and the rest of the world" Puhleeeeze...

Cancerreg, I am sorry that you are so bitter against the United States. I only hope that we never had to come to your aid or to the aid of your 1 billion people that say is so used to terrorism. I only hope that the squabbles your country has with Pakistan and the hatred bred between your two nations does not cause either one of you to get trigger happy and nuke the other. Yet, should something as horrible as that happen, you can be that not only will your 1 Billion receive our money and prayers, but many American organizations and volunteers will be using money out of their own pockets to fly to your country to help in ANY way possible your 1 Billion people.