posted July 31, 2005 10:11 AM              

Then report back.

Hugs,

posted July 31, 2005 11:15 AM              

1) The hard aspect is a conjunction
2) The personal planet is receptive (moon or Venus)
3) The personal planet is lacking essential dignity (in fall, deteriment, etc.)
4) The personal planet, whether in the 12th natally or by synastry, is weakened by this house placement (i.e., a Venus in Libra, although in rulership, would be weakened by the 12th)
5) The malefic plaent is diginified (in rulership, exaltation, a singleton)

In some relationships, the feeling of powerless is mutual. But normally, and espeically with Pluto, the native of the personal planet is at a disadvantage. They usually have less control over the relationship, relying on the other to make the first move or take initative. In healthy relationships that have many strong aspects to counteract the negative affects of such an aspect, this isn't so bad. In unhealthy ones, this means the native of the malefic planet can readily manipulate, abuse and control the other person, either overtly or subtly. Hard contacts with Pluto in unhealthy relationships often involve psychological manipulation and abuse which can be hard to pinpoint and recognize at first, and that keeps the weaker person confused and uncertain about their own choices. There is often strong sexual power being used to control the person as well.

I wish to say not all relationships with these kind of aspects have to end in bad way. I know a couple who have a very healthy and happy marriage,a nd they have Venus-Pluto square, with his Pluto in the 12th. The Pluto partner is a very conscientious person with many other strong aspects to balance out his perosnality, and so that aspect seems to helps keep the marriage interesting and appealing to them without overwhelming each other.

posted July 31, 2005 11:28 AM            

P.S. oh, I've got Pluto square Venus in my natal chart.
P.P.S. for anyone who says Aquarians are unemotional, I've got an Aquarius stellium,
for the record (Sun/Mercury/Venus)

I just read Gemini Nymph's post.

quote:

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They usually have less control over the relationship, relying on the other to make the first move or take initative.

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posted July 31, 2005 12:55 PM              

Thanks GN for posting additional information on the Pluto aspects....and you are correct, they do not all end up badly, you just have to be aware and careful when you have them in synastry with someone....many are 'karmic' connections.

posted August 02, 2005 02:57 AM              

couldn't help but take a look at this thred - Pluto contacts are awesome in my book. but like already said, not all are bad.
Pluto contacts to Venus and the Sun are the two I have found to be the strongest.
Pluto conjunct Venus, as Gemstar has noted (Hi Gem, by the way XX) produces an energy of pure fascination between two individuals, this is not a negativly aspected contact, unless there's another planet lurking somewhere adding a little spice into the cauldron but generally Pluto conj Venus is a mystically beautiful aspect. a little like Romeo and Juliet. Each finds the other fascinating, Pluto sees the pure escence and beauty in Venus and is soothed by her while at the same time Venus is protected by the powerful Pluto who shows her only the positive aspects of his great powers. The two are in awe of each another and the feelings are not week. These energies are karmic and very strong. It's very hard to break this one. Even years down the line it is not uncommon for two individuals who have gone their seperate ways for whatever reason, to be reunited once again, with these aspects. Hence the quote on the karmic bit! Linda describes it beautifully in Relationship signs - 'They will both rush into mutual re-birth to be reunited'

I was with someone for seven years with the Venus Pluto conjunction in our synastry and even now, years down the line of being seperated, she still enters my dreams and thoughtrs on a daily basis. It was very hard to let go from both sides. This energy is powerful and whether one believes it or not - it's real!!!

Pluto opposed or square Venus on the other hand is a slightly different kettle of fish.
The feelings of affection, the pull toward each other the fascination with one another and the adoration of each another is all still there, just like in the conjunction, only this time, Venus is aware of Plutos awsome powers.
She knows that if unleashed, her sense of balance and emotional stability will be rocked possibly destroyed and may never regained. Pluto is not usually so aware, being overwhelmed by the beauty and grace of Venus to start off with. It's almost as if Venus knows she has done something wrong, perhaps (most deffinetly) in a past life and is now trying to repair the error by offering her love. Pluto does not have that recall of past life memory and initially sees this thing of beauty and wants it. It's only after a while, and this while usually takes about 3 - 4 months on the earth plane. I have seldom known for it to take much longer, After this time, Pluto tires of Venus and the past comes back to haunt Venus with Pluto often unaware his even doing it. Pluto actions, however innocent they may appear to others sets about a turn of events which will ultimately destroy Venus, in every sense. Breaking ones heart is usually only one of these events. The psychological damage is another.

This may sound all a little dramatic but again, I have absolute previous knowledge of these aspects. The same individual I had Pluto Venus conjunct with, I also had Pluto Venus opposed with - now there's a set of aspects to take on!!! the great pull together aligned with the great push apart!!
Oh one more thing, some of you may have experienced this - with the opposition especially, Pluto always likes to tell Venus where she has gone wrong? - what she doesn't do right, how she messed things up, how she is the one who should grow up, apologise, acted silly etc.. etc.. you get the picture, when in escence it is actually Pluto's way of trying to conceal his faults by placing them onto others hoping no-one is wiase enough to see past his smoke screen of perfectionism!!! which unfortunately, most people can't. Well not immediately anyway. I have often found that people come back to me months later telling me what an Ar**"le so an so really is ? funny that, but hey - what goes around eh )

The Sun on the other hand when aspected to Pluto is a little different. When conjunct, the two planets roll around in each others shadows aware of their own powers and energies. They can work harmoniously together and when aspected like this, produce an awsome amount of energy which another soul would need to be well prepared for if they were to think about going against them. It's almost like having heaven and hell on the same team - Now where wdoes that leave the rest of us???

In opposition - you've guessed it power strugles. The suns pride wont let itself be dictated to by Pluto while at the same time Pluto refuses to accept the dominance of the Sun. This may sound like a recipe for disaster but depending what other aspects are present, is not always. In a love relationship this aspect is often noted by others as bickering between the natives. snapping, somewhat gently with one another about nothing of any relevance whatsoever.

The Pluto Sun aspects do not usually denote any great level of sexual or love energies between two individuals, it is more of a intelectual contact, whereas the Pluto Venus aspects are very much affection and feelings based. One(Venus) expresses affection and love, the other(Pluto) expresses sexual energies and fascination

posted August 02, 2005 08:07 AM              

Thanks for the write up...Also wanted to note that Venus sq. Pluto can be the 'unrequited' Love...

Personally, becaue I am Plutonian by nature, and have Venus trine Pluto natally, the Venus sq Pluto aspect in synastry feels easy to handle. My Venus sq to his Pluto....my Eros exactly conjunct his Pluto may strengthen my position of powers....and in this dark arena of love and power, MY Pluto opposes his Moon....so it is often times difficult to truly decide who has more of the pull...or push for that matter...all the aspects in synastry combine together into a song of sorts. Add in the other loving and peaceful aspects...and you have a breath-taking bouquet of powerful and transforming Love....

posted August 03, 2005 02:46 AM              

and you have a breath-taking bouquet of powerful and transforming Love....

Love it.

Thinking about me?? how terribly sweet. Still splashing about, up in the North Atlantic! what about yourself?

posted August 05, 2005 03:52 AM              

Mars Venus conj: wow bet that was fun

I've not had the pleasure of that aspect with someone yet - closes't I ever got was sextile but it was my Venus to her Mars, so was a little bit backwards I think.

Tell me, is it true what they say about the Mars Venus conjunction in synastry?

Yes if your Venus was opposed by his Pluto, they would be the ones doing the damage (or repair if you look at it another way!!)

daft thing is, the compulsive pull toward each other would still be present. Sort of like Pluto never really knowing if they want you or not, letting you go then realising they miss you, only to claw you back simply to decide they didn't need you at all, then pushing you away again - and so it goes on, until things reach a point where they suddenly open their eyes, realise they will not find another with as much feeling for them and try to make ammends - which usually results in Venus deciding she's had enough and stands firm behind that wall and refuses to come out to play any more - all very tragic really, as Pluto then feels miffed by this, Venus feels miffed by this and hey presto they end up getting themselves into another round of karmic fighting for the next life!!!

oh dear, oh dear - will we never learn?

posted August 06, 2005 12:36 AM              

I have that and I would say I have been told I am aloof and heartless which isn't true. I can easily be in love with someone who isn't there and ignore my partner, and escape. But really I am looking for a safe harbour to be in, and it took me many years to realize that.

I knew a Neptune in the 1st who had this unreal ability to get into my head, and help me escape. He always ended up with married women or unavailable people and got his heart broken by a Scorpio that way. He was sweet and I could feel him but not touch him if you know what I mean. He was always holding out for the impossible, and he would feel like a drug to me, and he said vice versa about me.

We ended up both ending our relationships with other people but then drifted away possibly because it wasn't an escape anymore. Neptune in the 1st really needs direction, and a firm partner who is not domineering but needy.

My last three partners have been almost dominant to the extreme and I am trying to get away from that, but your guy sounds like he needs that now.

Don't feel bad because you are loving yourself by looking for safety ultimately. As for Pluto square Sun I was into a man with our composite Pluto and Mars square sun and there was deep love energy on my side but my Neptune always makes men want to escape with me and I wasn't strong enough to deal with that, plus his own alcoholism.
Neptune in the 1st also has issues with alcohol and encourages others to drink.

Are you drinking anything during these encounters?

posted August 06, 2005 01:28 AM              

In these situations, always and only remember yourself, and work on understanding that there is nothing about you that actually needs or deserves this man. Also, there are no in-betweens or special occasions with thse types of addictions - you just gotta go cold turkey. Disconnect. Let him go, and let him let you go. As someone who just finished this weary part of my soul's journey, I am telling you IT CAN BE DONE.

In terms of aspects, look at Neptune in the chart as well. Sometimes it blurrs your vision towards another, and makes you keep coming back for something which you don't quite understand. Pluto, also, of course.

Don't convince yourself that anything is love. Love feels nothing like what you are feeling. This man is a lesson for you, and you will come out strong, with more wisdom, and more experience. Only in that sense is he a blessing.

Your twin flame is out there waiting, so have a patience, and stay the course. Best of luck to you!