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Author Topic:   your Mercury- eager or deliberate mind?
whiterabbit
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posted October 09, 2005 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whiterabbit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marc Edmund Jones writes about 4 types of Mercury placements in his book "How to Learn Astrology". I've had it for a while, and it is pretty ancient, but there are some things worth sharing. (I've just been reading through it again after a few years).

"The only important difference between one mind and another is the underlying or general tendency of one individual to reach forward and anticipate things, and of another to lean back and recapitulate them, together with the further distinction by which some minds do this in rather an extreme degree, whereas others remain relatively close to the central balance of will. (the Sun)"

So...
If your Mercury is more than fourteen degrees "ahead" of the Sun (in a clockwise direction- because this is based on even older astrological practice that read the planets clockwise) is is said that your mind is not only "eager" but "untrameled": "...the mind is like the little boy when he is far enough ahead of his father to feel altogether free to examine everything, and to deal with anything, quite in his own imprerious way."

If Mercury is less than fourteen degrees ahead (again, in a clockwise direction), the mind is "eager but is more will-censored or self-conscious." Perhaps the "father" is in sight here.

When Mercury rises "behind" the Sun by more than fourteen degrees, "the mind is "deliberate" rather than eager, and in the extreme of this seperation is also untrammeled."

When Mercury rises behind the Sun by less than fourteen degrees, we have "the deliberate mind which is self-conscious".


Again, because it kept confusing me when I was looking at people's charts-- you have to read the chart clockwise for this, so to the left is eager, to the right is deliberate.

I've looked at a few charts, including my own. I apparently have an eager but somewhat self-conscious mind. It makes sense to me.
How about you?

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proxieme
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posted October 09, 2005 09:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How about Spacey?

Is there a "Spacey" option?

- prox, Merc RX in Pisces

(Mine's 13d "ahead", I guess, at 9d Pisces to my Sun's 22...the explanation still confused me.
Ah, there we go - "spacey" it is )

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Duality
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posted October 10, 2005 07:32 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have merc at 28 gem and sun at 26:37 gem. Is it deliberate?

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future_uncertain
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posted October 10, 2005 08:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My sun is 24* Sag, Mercury is 14* Cap.

I've never thought of myself as having a slow, deliberate mind, though.

Curious as to what some others come up with.

Thanks for the info.

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future_uncertain
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posted October 10, 2005 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, looking again...

If the separations are more than 14* either way, my understanding is that the thought processes would not be hindered by self-consciousness, correct?

I would say that's true for me.

Slow and deliberate? I suppose this can mean many things. I think too much, or so I'm told. This isn't the type of thing I would consider to be deliberate, but I could be looking at it the wrong way. I think of deliberate as being more laid back. Not me!

What do you guys think? Where are your Mercuries (plural???)and how does the information above manifest itself for you?

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whiterabbit
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posted October 10, 2005 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for whiterabbit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Duality,

yup, yours is the "deliberate, self-conscious" kind.

future_ ,
the way I'm reading it, it's about the dispositions of the mind, in a sense.
I wouldn't read deliberate as more laid-back, in fact I think the eager mind would manifest as a more laid-back character.
The deliberate mind- well, that's like Hercule Porot's little grey cells if you're familiar with him. The deliberate mind would probably take more time to make a decision, say something, formulate an argument. The eager mind may be somewhat faster- but this would mean that they would also often fumble and say something inappropriate or anticipate what is going to be said. I can see the eager mind jumping to conclusions a lot. And having flashes of "aha! I get it!" even though they have not really thought something through.
The eager mind would probably rely more on osmosis and flashes of inspiration for knowledge, than on methodical thought and research. But if either are within 14 degrees of the Sun, I suppose they are both less extreme and more influenced by the nature of the Sun, also in a sense less liberated from the Sun's effects. The Sun adds that self-conscious element, filtering thought and speech.

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astro junkie
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posted October 12, 2005 02:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
REALLY interesting whiterabbit. Thanks.

------------------
... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness

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amisha121877
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posted October 12, 2005 03:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks whiterabbit -

"When Mercury rises behind the Sun by less than fourteen degrees, we have "the deliberate mind which is self-conscious".

definitely sounds like me and deliberate certainly is not laid back. i quadruple think every personal thing to get the best possible scenario for all those involved - even if it takes me a lifetime.

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Duality
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posted October 12, 2005 04:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What does a "deliberate mind" and a "self conscious mind" mean exactly?

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amisha121877
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posted October 12, 2005 04:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
??????

just a guess

deliberate mind
i'll walk to the bus stop, take the bus to the train station, take the train to 7th street, walk on the left side of the street, go to the diner about 20 feet ahead, go get a cup of coffee, carry it with me so that i can drink the coffee at work instead of at the diner since i'll probably want another one if i drink it at the diner, make sure i'm out of the diner at 13 minutes after so that i can catch the bus at 15 minutes after which is located right across the street. get on the bus, sit at the 3rd seat if it's not ripped........etc., etc., etc..........

self conscious
i'll wear white socks with this outfit because if i wear the green one's - there is nothing green in my outfit and if i cross my leg like i usually do when i sit down, you will see the green sock and i don't want that to happen - even if no-one sees it, i'll still be trying to cover the socks obsessively.

THAT'S ALL JUST TOTALLY EXAGGERATING BUT I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

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lotusheartone
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posted October 12, 2005 04:25 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wow! thanks all of you, that is very interesting

Love and Light to ALL

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nove731
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posted October 12, 2005 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nove731     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What would mine be?

I have Mercury at 13 degrees Taurus in the 8th House, and my Sun at 23 degrees Aries in the 7th House.

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Mystic Gemini
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posted October 12, 2005 05:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


Sun Gemini 27°52'09 12
Mercury Gemini 07°46'37 11

------------------
Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´ * Lost in the peace of serenity
Blind my eyes I cannot see
Lost my soul but found my heart
Again a time, when I shall start

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Sajittarius
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posted October 12, 2005 11:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
future_uncertain, i have sun at 23 SAG and mercury at 6 CAP i think it means our mercury is ahead of the sun and we aren't deliberate. or something. :P

ah crap i just reread it and it says CLOCKWISE.

In which case i agree with the planning some things like today is the 12th but I'm trying to plan exactly what I'm going to wear on the 29th to this party (not a halloween costume, just my outfit) so i can breakdance to a song I'm going to download to my friends computer so i can get a chick who I've never hung out with but I saw at a party last month, to notice me. Ok im @#$%ing deliberate...

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whiterabbit
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posted October 12, 2005 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whiterabbit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Amisha, I like your way of describing them- that is sort of how I saw it too (in essence).

Nove- you've got the deliberate sort.
Mystic- eager
Saj- yours is actually the deliberate, self-conscious kind (just barely- you're almost at 14 degrees apart)


It's really easy to figure it out- if put your finger on where your sun is and move it in a clockwise direction and if you hit Mercury, then it's eager, but if you have to move from your Sun in a counter-clockwise direction to reach Mercury, you've got the deliberate kind. And if they're less than 14 degrees apart in either direction they're more self-conscious.

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Mystic Gemini
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posted October 12, 2005 11:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HUh? WTF?


quote:
If Mercury is less than fourteen degrees ahead (again, in a clockwise direction), the mind is "eager but is more will-censored or self-conscious." Perhaps the "father" is in sight here.


Can someone please explain this to me in retard mode cuz I'm not getting any of it right now.


------------------
Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´ * Lost in the peace of serenity
Blind my eyes I cannot see
Lost my soul but found my heart
Again a time, when I shall start

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whiterabbit
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posted October 13, 2005 12:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for whiterabbit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Am I having trouble expressing myself lately, or what? Why are people finding this so confusing?

Mystic, the father comment is because earlier in the post I wrote this quote from the book (I was just continuing his metaphor):
"...the mind is like the little boy when he is far enough ahead of his father to feel altogether free to examine everything, and to deal with anything, quite in his own imprerious way."

The eager mind would...

anticipate things: for example- before someone finishes their sentence or even opens their mouth you may have already assumed what they were going to say.
not read directions carefully but skim them over and then try to follow what they thought they read
make rash/spontaneous decisions without thinking it through to the end
blurt things out

those are the negative aspects. The positive aspects would be
speed of mental activity, flashes of insight
quick reflexes and responses
fast reading (because it's all things Mercury- so all things to do with communication and acquiring knowledge)
creativity, "thinking outside the box", imagination, inspiration
curiosity, no fear of exploring new intellectual territory, open-mindedness, spontanaiety

Does that make sense?


Having it more than 14 degrees away just enhances the things I have listed above.

EDIT: I imagine the deliberate mind would make a better editor than the eager mind would.. probably also less typos

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Mystic Gemini
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posted October 13, 2005 12:32 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also talk very fast and I have always been a speed reader. I love reading.

My mom's a gem and she is the same way but she has mercury in cancer. You would think she'd be nice LOL.


------------------
Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´ * Lost in the peace of serenity
Blind my eyes I cannot see
Lost my soul but found my heart
Again a time, when I shall start

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AcousticGod
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posted October 13, 2005 03:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm afraid the clockwise direction is confusing.

If my Sun's at roughly 2:15, and my Mercury at about 2:40, is my Mercury ahead or behind? ...because when you set a clock ahead, you set it later, but chronilogically 'ahead' would indicate a time previous to the time you're at.

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Aen
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posted October 13, 2005 04:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
not only "eager" but "untrameled"

LOL
Well, guess that the usual Mercury in Cap descriptions feel sort of lacking.

Thank you for posting it.

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alanabelle86
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posted October 13, 2005 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for alanabelle86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"...the mind is like the little boy when he is far enough ahead of his father to feel altogether free to examine everything, and to deal with anything, quite in his own imprerious way."


hoorayyyy my Mercury in Scorpio is 24 degrees ahead of my 2 degree Sun..

------------------
Libra Rising, Scorpio Sun, Leo Moon

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amisha121877
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posted October 13, 2005 09:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i read fast also and i can NEVER finish those self-help books. my father is nowhere (hasn't been since i was 5-6) in sight but my mercury is in the same sign as his sun - capricorn.

p.s. is it just me or if you look at a natal chart - it kind of looks like it shifted at astro.com. i mean, i thought my sixth house was predominately capricorn full (mercury is the only planet in that house on a natal chart) but it's only about 1/4 and the rest is aquarius which makes the 7th house 1/4 aquarius and 3/4 pisces. how weird. no wonder i'm so rattled.

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Stargazer
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posted October 13, 2005 10:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whiterabbit

My Sun and Merc are conjunct...
sun 1' 03'19
merc- 1' 20'04
in virgo
The deliberate /self concscious description amisha posted is accurate... however, i speak and read very fast... i can finish others thoughts before they do...

I constantly have to slow down to process.. and not blurt out (thought this was Aries influence)
I am in sales and do ALOT of public speaking
So, I feel i am a mix of sorts -would that be because my sun/merc are less than a degree apart?

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whiterabbit
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posted October 13, 2005 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whiterabbit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

lol.. ok.. really, I seem to be causing a lot of confusion around here lately.
Acoustic- clockwise, just when it comes to the direction, it has nothing to do with clocks in general, or time.. He just specified that because birth charts are generally read in a counter-clockwise direction, beginning with the Ascendant. (chronology has nothing to do with this)
Are they both at 2 degrees? If they're conjunct down to the degree I imagine that much of this is irrelevant. It is said that in that case they act like a singular force (Sun and Merc.)
Alana- yours is actually not ahead but "behind" because you have to read the chart COUNTER CLOCKWISE.
Stargazer- yeah, I think it's different when they're in a really tight (less than a degree) conjunction

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