posted October 29, 2005 08:04 PM              

Very cold and distant, usual angry guy act. I called him last time we fought and now it seems he can hold that over my head. Every time I tried to love him he would surround himself with strangers, or get drunk, rather than talk or be alone with me the past few weeks. it's clear he wanted a sexual relationship but with no ties, OR maybe he wanted ties only complete security in me.

Either way I could never get close enough to make my case, or talk to him about the future. If I tried to show him my plans he would get busy, or get sarcastic. He really acted as if he didn't know I felt when he must know. I told him everything about NYC and Boston and how I couldn't decide but I was looking at apartments in Boston and wanted him to know that.

I told him he did a good job of hurting me, and I was always honest with him. I expected more honesty from an Aquarius, but I was surprised to get very little. As he put it everyone lies..

He was so incredibly insecure about himself, never sure of what to say, I will never think of Aquarius as a secure sign again. I am glad I got so close but it was a bit like smoke and mirrors-nothing to hold on to.

We had weird fights about birth control-he didn't want any more children, but didn't believe in it, wanted to take his chances. Was that his strange way of telling me he wanted to commit and settle down? I couldn't really say yes to that.

On top of that I went and did something really domestic and dumb and gave him an espresso machine. What was I thinking? An Aquarius in need of a kitchen appliance?

Well, it hurt as I really thought he could be the one and tried to talk to him about it and show him the last two weekends.

Any cheer or words of advice from women involved with Aquarius men?

should I move on or could this be a test?

posted October 29, 2005 08:43 PM            

quote:

---

We had weird fights about birth control-he didn't want any more children, but didn't believe in it,

---

posted October 29, 2005 09:16 PM              

He has been getting more and more jealous. We had a fight about a man I was talking to. So we cooled it and I called him up, we talked and I get the feeling now he just wanted a fling or changed his mind. I began to feel guilty as if I was not committing the way he wanted but I am not sure if he would believe in me the way I believed in him.

He inspired me to do a lot of things in my life, and everytime I would make a change he would get jealous. Last weekend he wouldn't give me the last names of anyone we met. Just in case I should try and contact these people later. So he has been cutting off communication more and more making it very difficult to talk. I will email him my standard talk about treating me like a sex object but it angers me that he would do it on the phone, and play so many little word and mind games. I get too upset when he does this to think, because there isn't much going on in my life that makes it impossible to be together but he acts so unhappy.

I already tried to make him secure regarding other men and it didn't work at all. I tried and gave up last weekend I know. It's kind of hard to force someone to see you, so I gave up. As for the birth control thing He says he has control and no form of birth control should come between us, as it cheapens everything. I see that he wants me to show I care but that cheapens me.

I told him so and that's when he got super cold. So I give up, and I will email him my super angry I am not an object speech. Along with the fact that yes I did love him right from the start and he threw it away because he felt too much self pity. He would surround himself with so many people I couldn't talk to him the last weekend, even though we went to a cabin to be alone, two other couples showed up unannounced.

So frustrating and heartbreaking.

Okay I just sent him a fiery letter. It won't matter, but it made me feel better. That is the last time I try to have an intimate relationship with an Aquarius that doesn't involve other people.

They just don't do well with one on one talks. I will have to communicate in the future through other people. I don't think there are domesticated Aquarians.

posted October 30, 2005 04:39 AM              

It is HEADGAMES, and for that reason I would not date an Aqua, or a Scorpio for that matter, they can be controlling and bitchy and this seems to be an essential part of life to them, no matter what type of relationship one has to them (bit of a peculiar existence if you ask me). They have VERY marked different faces for different people, and quite frankly, it's crap. You don't need to put up with crap. NO HEADGAMES!! - That's not too much to ask, surely?

Hugs,

posted October 30, 2005 05:09 AM              

nice girl: she calls him often and says "please return my calls"
Smart Girl: She gets back to him when she's free, or maybe not at all

nice girl: she rushes to see him the moment he beckons
Smart Girl: she sees him when it's convenient for her

nice girl: she makes it obvious a relationship is her goal before she knows much about him
Smart Girl: she goes out to have fun and doesn't make promises to a virtual stranger

nice girl: when he does call her she is mad he didn't call sooner
Smart Girl: when he calls her he is curious where she is and why she's not home to answer his call

nice girl: she often drives to see him
Smart Girl: he'll pick her up or happily go out of his way

(When a woman drives to see a man, the only thing missing is the "We Deliver" sign on the top of her car.)

nice girl: she askes "where is this relationship going?"
Smart Girl: He has no clue where the relationship is going and she leaves it like that.

nice girl: She buys him thoughtful gifts "just to show she's thinking of him."
Smart Girl: She buys him gifts only on his birthday and the holidays. She constantly recieves thoughtful romantic gifts from him.

nice girl: She sends him romantic cards, sneaks love notes into his pockets, and writes long letters about their relationship.
Smart Girl: she keeps all correspondance brief and non-mushy. She constantly recieves romantic notes, cards and long letters from him.

nice girl: She always takes his calls. She hangs on the phone with him for hours talking about her "feelings" like he's one of her girlfriends.
Smart Girl: Every other call she lets the machine get it. She ends phone conversations after fifteen minutes and no longer, no matter how juicy the conversation. She is always the first to end the conversation, leaving him wanting more.

nice girl: she asks him about his ex
Smart Girl: He brings up the ex; she looks at her watch

posted October 30, 2005 12:16 PM              

And who is going to always end the call first especially when you know he will be the one rushing to be the game player?? It takes respect first of all to play the game.

Smart Girl-Doesn't kiss or get physical without an honest commitment. Why? Because the guy is looking to test her to the ends of the earth. It's more fun to tease a nice girl than a bad girl.

A Smart girl doesn't tease or get teased, because it's not worth it. That's why I think air sign men have had it with me because I don't play and frankly my dear I don't give a damn about the play.

posted October 30, 2005 01:33 PM              

((((hugs))))

& light

and speedy, successful move away

quote:

---

Smart Girl-gets to fall in love with someone she doesn't have to play games to get.
A Smart girl doesn't tease or get teased, because it's not worth it.

---

Totally agree. I've just tried to explain the same thing to a Pisces Sun Aries Moon seductress who flourishes in getting men around her little fingers and she just didn't get it.

Maybe the above quote really is about asking too much, but if you know that this is what you want, then don't settle to anything less.

posted October 30, 2005 06:01 PM              

The Aqua emailed back to say the standard line-needs a woman who is more relaxed, more lovable, he wants to be friends, when I am more relaxed and less emotional. He can't take care of a woman's emotional needs because it's too draining. Plus he needs to get to know me before knowing if I'm the one.

Translation, don't be so uptight about sex and everything will work out with you and Mr. Right, who I am not because I am too busy having fun without you.

I have heard this so many times before. And if I were to do what he wanted, he would hold every request I made over my head.

I really need to get involved with more selfless men even if they are exclusive to me or even a bit out there.

As long as they can devote themselves to others. Trouble is I get jealous easily so I will have to deal with that.

Thanks, Knowflakes,
going for a drive

posted October 30, 2005 07:44 PM              

~*Hugs*~

This man sounds temperamental and moody. I would hesitate about the birth control issue too if he didn't want to talk about the future with you. Thinking about the consequences for the future is a natural pause of introspection responsible adults have!

*sighs*

posted October 30, 2005 08:00 PM              

I don't think anyone putting on an act to get someone else is Smart. Desperate maybe..

If a girl is already like the "SmartGirl" described and that's her normal response to things. That's great and she'd be more than happy with an Air Sign man..I'm a lot like this and I'm with a Libra and very happy. In this case, it's just the way her personality IS, which doesn't make her smart or stupid.

If a girl is NOT actually like "SmartGirl" but puts on an act to get the guy.. that to me, like I said is desperate. Why should anyone have to put on an act to get someone else lol What is he? king of the world? For YOU to go through the trouble to put on an act to get him..And what happens later? ..If the act works..How long can you keep it up? A week? A month? A life time?

If someone wouldn't suit me emotionaly I would brake up with them..because they're just NOT right for me. People should find people who ARE right. Someone who they can be themselves around and be liked/loved for that..instead acting *the part* only to later reveal their real personalities and cause more damage.

The "Nicegirl" is either playing a part herself (which i already said i disagree with) or she's just being herself. If they're both just being themselves, neither of them is any more or less intelligent, and they're both doing the right thing. But that whole passage seems to imply that SmartGirl is "acting" to get the guy, while Nicegirl is just being herself..and if that's the case Nicegirl IS smarter.

Nicegirls outcome: Guy doesn't like her back. She realises he isn't right for her, since he doesn't like her the way she is. Moves on with her life!

Smartgirls outcome: Continues to play games while cringing about it on the inside. Does everything she can to get and keep him, which is both time and energy consuming. The relationship either ends quite fast, regardless of the act (which would put her exactly where Nicegirl is..and would be the *fortunate* option in this situation) OR SmartGirl gets her man for keeps. She keeps acting till one fine day she realises she's wasted all this time and put in all this effort to get a guy who JUST isn't right for her.. A guy who I'm sure she'd eventually realise..she doesn't even "like" (based on the fact that they were obviously not right for each other to start with, for her to have to put on an act and hide her feelings)

I've seen so many couples where the people got together purely based on a physical attraction..and one of them put on an act and molded their personality to get the more attractive one

- I'm pretty sure this "acting" business comes from a lack of self-esteem, where one person thinks the other person is BETTER than them and they have to play a certain role and do everything right to SUIT that person and GET them for keeps. I find this unhealthy. I think people who do this should work on their self-confidence -

These couples are everywhere.. They're the couple that complains about communication and ends up in divorce. They're the couple where the girl bit*ches about the guy to all her friends and asks them about their personal problems, asks *them* for advice because she doesn't KNOW what he wants..instead of just asking *him*. But How could she ask him? when the only reason she even went out with him is looks based.. how could they possibly form a real bond where they both feel comfortable being both lovers and friends when their entire relationship is based on multiple lies for the ultimate purpose of "mating" with someone attractive? How could she say to him, I don't like 'this' or 'that' sexually OR I want you to do 'this' or 'that' (just as an ie in assessing comfort level...I mean there are thousands of other examples that don't involve sex..but this is an obvious one) when I'm sure that it would feel kinda embarassing to talk like that to someone who YOu barely even KNOW...but share a bed with regardless..so offcourse you'll talk to your friends and ask *them* what to do

They're also the couple, where the man comes back from work and watches footie all night long and never says a word..or goes out with his friends on the weekends instead of going out with his wife/partner/gf. How could he go out with her when he can barely even hold a convo with her? how could anyone expect this guy to form a friendship bond with his SO when their whole relationship was obviously not based on that from the very beginning?

I'm just sick of seeing people who are entirely wrong for each other getting together and having relationships purely for the sex..purely based on physical attraction OR purely for show of purposes..so that they look like the perfect couple and everyone has something to envy..etc etc and then later complain that there's no communication..that SHE doesn't have enough sex with him..or that he doesn't *talk" enough to her and watches footie instead..It makes me wanna say well PEOPLE whyyy on earth do you think this happens? Because you have NOTHING in common..there's nothing for him to talk about when your personality and his are like chalk and cheese.. When you deceived him to get him and put on an act..or vice versa if he did..

If someone doesn't like you the way you are, move ON. If you don't like someone's personality and you can't get along with them/be CLOSE friends with them and talk easily and effortlessly..then, you're most proably not right for each other regardless of the physical attraction between you. The initial attraction DIES down quickly, and if there is nothing else there, the relationship crumbles.

posted October 30, 2005 09:35 PM              

Proof: A friend of mine was bending over backward to be the perfect, loving, girlfriend to her b/f who began taking her more and more for granted.

She was making the same mistake we all do, she was giving all her love, because she wanted so much for the love to be returned. She thought the more she gave, he would eventually appreciate and give back.

(Don't we all wish it worked that way.)

She was fighting to save her three year relationship, working her little butt off, and all he did is take her for granted.

I tried to talk to her about these rules (in one ear and out the other.)

She came to stay with me one night, emotionally crushed after going 6 full days with him not returning her phone calls.

She told me she suspected he was seeing another girl.

While at my house she picked up my copy of "Why Men Love Bitches."

TOTAL BREAKTHROUGH.

She read the first 9 pages only; and she was converted. She fell down in the middle of my living room floor sobbing in pain from her heart "Oh my god, I set myself up to be used! I did this to myself!"

The next morning she asked me to drive over to his place while he was gone at work. She grabbed a plastic bag and packed all of her things.

He noticed.

Within moments of him arriving home he was blowing up her cell phone with calls. ("Oh *NOW* he has time to call me!")

She didn't answer.

In their three years together he has never once bothered to leave her a message. Not once.

He did that day. I got to listen to him begging and pleading, with "I love you's" and "Please talk to me's."

All of that ladies, and she only read 9 pages.

She then asked me to drive her to the Barns and Nobels so she could pick up her own copy.

Talk about a turn-around! That girl will never be on the begging end of a relationship again.

Nine pages had accomplished what THREE years of begging and bargaining, hadn't done.

posted October 30, 2005 10:36 PM              

Well I got the ***** part down all right, just not the ***** that men love, they back down and a man can only take so much teasing from his friends. I suppose the rule is to ***** in private but this Aqua didn't leave that to chance, and again its' tough to manage someone if you are sincere and honest.

I just ***** all the time when I feel something is wrong in my bones, and I get evasive answers. Something gives usually, and many times it's insecurity on the man's part about how much money he makes.

I find that men who are obsessed with money are not ones who are rich, they come in all walks of life it's just not good to see the materialistic bent in someone who has no selfless goal for it. I can't stand that competitive streak. The Aqua once got into his friends BMV convertible and started talking baby talk-to the CAR!

Ooohh baby I love you i love you,
I said are you talking to me? and he said NO the car, I love this baby! I mean, it's a Car okay? not normal.

And if a man has half a brain he's saving his money for something bigger than a flashy car in my mind. That is where the fake attitude starts and then it's about women and what they can offer/show. I am sure that's it, I don't like the sales pitch and I don't want my standards changed.

I know many important men who are not flashy in the least, and they are reasonably kind and good to their wives-a few bank vice presidents are very stuffy, but kind and genial in private and frugal. I have shared money saving tips with very rich men. I always imagined well off as kind of scruffy and comfortable, not flashy.

Another thing with this Aqua-strip clubs. Don't get me started.

I really don't know if I have the enegy to break in another man over a year. It took that much time to stop the ex Libra (who is looking angelic in comparison), from being scary jealous of every male around me when we were first together. The Libra was the same with women, and it was rough, I ended up moving out and he changed.

Issue is why chase something that takes so much work to change, when it affects your self esteem? and Women need to feel potent too, the bashing over the head with the jealousy issue does not make me feel sexy. After it's quesitoning my behaviour and intelligence. The Aqua would question why I went to the beac and why the towels weren't wet? Because the sun dried them? I mean who can live like that and not argue?

One day I will have the strength again, but I just don't want to be pursued by anyone insincere. The Aqua's main arguement was that I listened too much to other people, and he was jealous of my men and I could control that. His ego needed so much stroking, it sounded like the he felt guilty.

I think he was listening too much to his guy friends who thought I was taking up too much of his time and changing him into something softer. Especially his one sort of sleazy rich friend who had hit on me a few times. What made me mad is that i told my b/f and he said his friend didn't mean it. So that was okay but I couldn't go to the beach without an interrogation. When I called him on it I saw his friend backed him financially so of course I am the bad one.

No more sensitive liberated types for a while. He was always drinking just like sensitive artist types do-last weekend he encouraged me to drink an entire bottle of wine and my head felt numb all week. How can he live like that?

I will be his friend because he will be surprised at that-I don't think he has the guts to do it but I encourage him to try to make himself better off. I wouldn't care except it's a small community, and I know better than to burn my bridges that way. He's not getting to shake my hand or hug me though, and no sob stories allowed.

Natasha

posted October 30, 2005 10:40 PM            

Natasha, this hasn't been an easy one for you, do what you feel is best with him, either being his friend or bagging the whole thing completely. I understand the Aquarius enigma, I had one of my own, remember? You'll feel better if you take a break from it for awhile, for your own peace of mind. You ARE lovable!

posted October 31, 2005 12:54 AM              

Fayte -- I honestly didn't take your post seriously at first. I thought it was a spoof. I was marvelling at your sense of humor while chuckling all the way through, and even got irritated a little by people who, in my view, "didn't get it." Now I find out I am the one who didn't get it, because you actually meant what you wrote!! LOL!!!

I am not convinced of the longevity of your friend's change in behavior. While I understand having an "Aha" moment reading something that resonates with me, I fail to see how anyone can drastically change her behavior by 180 degrees and still feel authentic. Are you the same person, Fayte, who was talking in another thread about being "real," and true to oneself? Is putting on an act and treat people in a way oneself woudn't want to be treated "real" in any way? Your friend's "conversion" makes for a good story, but check back with her 6 months down the line and see how she's doing then. She'll be back at square one with some other guy, I guarantee it.

I think it's a safe bet to say that going against the grain of what one feelings and needs is hard to maintain. And what's it for anyway? Sure, it's not a bad idea to learn to be less what men like to call "clingy," men do dislike needy women, but the smart girl vs. nice girl seems less an attitude adjustment than a complete personality change...

You are advocating instead of one person playing games, now it's two people playing games, isnt' life grand... All this could be avoided just by choosing more wisely. A woman with a lot of emotional needs should stay away from air men, I think that much is clear.

On the other hand, there will always be men who are emotionally unavailable, that's the way they are wired, and they could be any sign at all. It has to do, I guess, with childhood scars. And just because a guy like your friend's starts to act whiny and clingy himeself when the woman turns the table on him still doesn't make him emotionally available, or desirable, for that matter.

posted October 31, 2005 02:42 AM              

quote:

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She was making the same mistake we all do, she was giving all her love, because she wanted so much for the love to be returned. She thought the more she gave, he would eventually appreciate and give back.

---

Relationships are about give and take..If she was doing all the giving, why not leave? why play him into coming back to her for round 2?

quote:

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If you girls are tired of pleading with cold, unresponsive men, that book will teach you how to "Hold your own" and not give your power away!

---

Personally, I'm sick of spending time teaching these "cold, unresponsive men" lessons. It's easy and yes it works..but for what purpose.. does anyone really want these men in relationships? Like I said before, why bother doing this when long term it's not going to get you anywhere..instead of just moving on and finding the right guy for you?

Personally I think a cold, disinterested attitude comes from a lack of FEELING.. The man in question just doesn't FEEL enough for you to CARE..If he DID, you wouldn't need to play games to hold on to him. Can you play sexual lil power plays? Course you can..it's what women have been doing for ever. But what for? To get him to call lol.. yes he'll call and he'll chase..If you act like a biatch it's typical male attitude to do this. It's the attitude that says "I don't really like you all that much, but I don't exactly want another guy to have you either"..typical territorial crap. But does it change the fact that at the end of the day he really just doesn't care about you at all..emotinally? In my opinion, it doesn't change that. When you slap a guy with the SmartGirl attitude, he chases but it's all very sexual..Ultimately he's chasing because he can't *have you* (and by that I mean, specifically sexually) and is affraid that someone else will. But when does it end? If the girl plays chase me for ever she'll never have him..so what's the point..and if she doesn't and she gives in at one point then he'll have her and move on his merry way, because that's all he ever wanted. A guy will NEVER love the "bit*ch" as that author puts it.. he'll want to have sex with her, yes..and he'll chase her for THAT purpose..so if she's playing hard to get he'll chase more..but he wont FEEL any more for her, than he felt bk when he wasn't chasing. You can't *make* someone love you, no matter what games you play, but you *can* keep them infatuated for a while..

The question is WHY do women need lessons in "dealing" with these men in the first place? I mean if these men are so horrible and cold and don't want to talk about feelings and are scared of commitment etc etc..why are these women with them? Why try to change someone to suit you or change yourself to suit them, instead of being with someone who already suits you, who does love you and who does care.. This is where the man's status and looks come into play I guess..which is why I mentioned the fact that these relationships are often based purely on physical attraction or status. If you're trying to hang on to someone because of their looks or their status when in reality looks stripped and all they're quite mean and cold towards you..that IS not healthy.

I think the prob here isn't that Men go after bi*tches.. The prob is women go after a-holes.. Good looking a-holes or rich a-holes.. and then complain and try to change them either by losing themselves and being overly "loving" like the supposed NiceGirl and your friend.. OR by acting out the b*tch attitude and playing hard to get.

I think everyone just needs to relax, be themselves..stop trying to trap or coerce others into having a relationship with them.. Women are too centered on men, something crazy. I've never been able to sit down with girls and have the subject NOt turn to men. How do I get him? Does he like me? How do I know whether he likes me? he winks at me does that mean he likes me? Should I play hard to get? Should I be brave and make the first move? Do guys like girls who make the first move? Do guys like this? Do guys want that? I really wish they'd GET OVER IT, no offence to anyone. Girls magazines are packed with stuff about men..almost every single thing in a girls mag will involve men in some way, shape or form..don't you find that just a little bit pathetic?