posted February 13, 2006 05:54 AM              

I am thinking of steps of bringing myself back to Earth. I've sat on high and upheld unrealistic principles for too long and it has kept me away from the things I need. Perhaps its because I'm Pisces, perhaps because of the heavy Aquarian influences in me.

I've been a vegetarian for 8 years because I couldn't justify an animal dying to feed me when there are so many other alternatives. Its time for steak and pepperoni pizza again. I haven't saved anything, and animals tear each other apart anyway.

I've waited for a ridiculously idealisic relationship to materialise out of nothing, even though by watching human nature I have seen that this can never exist as it is supposed, and certainly never for long. Its time for no-strings fun and sex, with no particular goal in mind, and no trying to bloody heal each other along the way. It never really works anyway, and I'm the one who ends up licking my wounds and being so bloody nauseatingly self-obsessed at the end of it.

I have neglected by baser instincts for too long, with little return and no sustenance from the results. The things that draw people to you are the things they recognise in themselves. No-one recognises my intention, they push me away. But what did I expect? People to follow like some Messiah and worship my way of looking at things as if I had a secret answer in life and now real love could truly be theirs?

Puh-lease!

This is not a cry for help or a "woe-is-me" my ex-Crab hurt me blah blah blah.

Good, I'm glad she did, I'm sure her intent wasn't to cause that much pain, or the others I have experienced nightmares with. She has brought me back down to Earth, which if I had been there in the first place I wouldn't have had such absurdly high expectations, which can only really ever lead to unconscious manipulation to bring about my subconciously pious vision of selfish persepctive.

So, has anyone else fallen off their pedestal, rubbed the stardust from their eyes and just got on with being normal?

This will be a big change for me. I want to make sure I know what I'm doing here.

posted February 13, 2006 06:23 AM              

While I contemplated doing what you want to do, fall off the pedestal, the Universe sent me a message that this is not the solution or the pill to end all pain.

The last thing I want to do is to sound preachy but from the few posts I have seen for you, you send heartfelt words, and you sound like a wonderful person Swerve. So, this bringing back to Earth from other people that happen to people like most of us here "idealistic, sensitive, etc" is not a reason for us to push the button off and join in the big party.

The reason that pushed me to the edge of the pedestal is an ex as well, the first blow, and then, a series of friendships that did nothing but sucked on the compassionate, symapthetic nature out of me.
I was fairly young, around 20. Serial ENERGY ABUSE (Vampires). What I did is not change who I am because I live in a dream and this is the real world, I tried to do what you want to do now and failed miserably because I ignored the message.

After all these incidents, I decided to be alone for a long time to reflect...no relationships, no friends, and to work on the constant messages being sent and learn the lessons. It worked!

Instead, I am now sure more than any other time that I am not some dreamer, idealistic, naive person who lives in a pink cloud...I am who I am, and if this does not suit some people then fine! I became more selective and protective of my self to avoid the scenarios of the past, had I fallen off the pedestal, my inner nature would not have accepted any of my imposing attitude on it to ignore the "supposed-dreamy self" as you call it.

Swerve, listen to your heart...and follow it, not your ego. Your ego is speaking now and it may or may not be because of your ex, but sometimes, one incident brings the avalanche of memories and wounds and we act accordingly according to our egos, not the heart. Scientifically, which is way off topic, the heart has a mind of its own. So if your ego (brain, logos) tells you to fall off the pedestal, your heart might not follow.

posted February 13, 2006 06:33 AM              

I think its about balance. I'm not going to turn into an arsehole overnight, just take some of the pressure off for a while and see why everyone around me seems to be having so much more fun and are just more relaxed about life.

If I carry on the way I am I'll end up going round the bend or wallowing in self-pity for the rest of my life.

The Cancer didn't have ths much to do with it, she was just the latest symptom of a disease of my own creation. She doesn't get the credit or the blame for this one. She's only a kid with a scared heart and alcoholic tendencies. I really should have known better.

In fact, I believe it is Ego that has led me to adopt the position I currently occupy of trying to be some kind of visionary, when clearly I don't seem to to be able to see the road ahead of me.

There are lots of intuitive and sensitive people on this forum who don't need to play Messiah all the time. It is draining and you are never really sure you are speaking with Truth anyway.

Its not through wounded pride I am making this decision, its more through wanting to survive and thrive rather than obsess about breadcrumbs of happiness I get every now and then because I'm so locked into my idealised way of seeing things.

It's complicated. I wonder if it's to do with the fact I turn 30 in a week or so.

posted February 13, 2006 06:55 AM              

That right? You too?

What are the main things you are looking to change? How would you like to do this?

What is the ideal (haha irony) balance you are seeking to attain here?

posted February 13, 2006 06:58 AM              

Swerve and Iqhunk: Lots of hugs to both of you.

posted February 13, 2006 07:21 AM              

Expectation is the killer here ( omg I can’t believe I’m saying this ) but it’s true. Only work hard on what is possible to achieve. This makes me very sad…because a Piscean without dreams is like a fish without water I don’t believe in becoming a pessimist, because that’s unrealistic.

Let the good things just come, without judging. Perhaps that’s the only way to go (???)

And do you know what stinks? I find peace through work because of my Moon. And yet my south node is Capricorn which means I should become less career oriented

posted February 13, 2006 07:51 AM              

I'm getting sick of my own whining. I respect myself more now. I still respect and love you guys, but if you could step inside me and feel the intense feeling of drowning in expectation, misery and loneliness you would understand. I'm sure you do anyway darling.

I have come to end of my tether. It was becoming dangerous to fight off depression every other week,and be at the mercy of other people's action, reactions and impressions. I could not sustain it and survive.

I kept waiting for the universe to throw me the ball, and whenever it did I wasn't ready to hold it through fear and dropped it.

I refuse to allow this to continue. No self-pity and no remorse. I tried, I really did. That has to be enough now.

But of course a part of my heart is sad.

posted February 13, 2006 07:59 AM              

I've been there before, or atleast in the same neighborhood (but in my early 20s), and ended-up feeling disconnected from myself when I abandoned my "idealism".

posted February 13, 2006 08:09 AM              

I am not abandoning myself so much as accepting that my view of the world just isn't realistic. As a human being I am suffering on every level.

If I do not change this I will die, in some ways it already feels like I have.

I need some positivity, and no-one is going to pop up and hand that out, so I am grabbing it for myself.

posted February 13, 2006 09:16 AM              

I wondered why the same scenarios again and again. What lessons must I learn? Harden my heart? Change my visions?
Can you really change your Soul? Your own true nature? Should you? Isn't that finally succumbing to the world?

I sometimes imagine I am at the Void. The Zero Point. We're always there if you really think about it. Always in Now. All creation from here forward comes from opening the door and stepping gingerly foot forward. How we choose to see things...the ways we choose in which to act/react.
This heart...I can't help but give it.
I've tried to do as you say and ended up even more miserable for it. (although I agree, that the balance you seek is good)
I pulled into an internal isolation that was hard to pull out of. (in the spiritual and loving sense...not social).

But...I can choose where I place it...and whom I give it to. I shall treat it as gently as it gives and only open it in the Sacred Spaces where I feel that magic...that beautiful reciprocation.
That balance of open and receive...give and take...reach and return.

I created a mantra for myself. In the worst of times try to remember its Vision~

Follow the Sun
Aim for Beauty
Strive for Cherish
Place Your Heart
in Sacred Spaces
so it may Truly
return to Thee.

posted February 13, 2006 11:40 AM              

Swerve buddy, you are a spiritual idealist, but I am a 'Gnostic' Mental energy experiencer. I need a lot of social isolation to do all my stuff because I am in an orthodox country in an orthodox community, [the one that burns stuff while protesting. Talk about punishment posting on Earth!]

None of my family or huge network of friends knows that I meditate on Kundalini, Chakras, do astro charts or Hyperspace work.

I cannot get married if I tell the truth, and India does not tolerate live in families.
So I have to consider many times to give up everything and turn into a "normal" community member to have a family etc.

But after all the past life awareness, knowledge, chi flow; it is impossible to look back. Then that freaking True Node in Libra hangs a damocles sword on my spiritual destiny, insisting that I fulfill a marital obligation instead of the easy route of staying single.

Hope the Saturn return can show some tricks to get over these obstacles! I decided, I am not giving up my Path, no matter what.
But I know how you are feeling.

Hope you get all the mental strength that I have been able to develop, and some more to tide over every crisis.

posted February 13, 2006 12:30 PM              

in your chart currently :
transiting Saturn square ( 0.34 degree ) natal Uranus ****
transiting Saturn opposite (0.22 degree) natal Merc **

makes loads of sense given what you write about
and given the Sat directions .. your probably getting a few hits of it

have a chat with someone with Saturn at odds with Uranus in their natal
.. u may discover a thing or wo ...

posted February 13, 2006 12:41 PM            

I've kind of been there;
The "falling off" thing,
and especially the whole Messiah thing (dont get me started).

I think balance is key.
If you need to relax some of the pressure on yourself, and you think this is the answer, then, by all means, get butt-nekked and screw a slice of pepperoni pizza.

Maybe it will be freeing.

I had always considered myself one of these one-woman guys, who couldnt even kiss a girl he wasnt romantically interested in, and I spent years on the sidelines looking/waiting for "the one", until recently, when I realized how "backed up" I was/am, and decided that sex was/is as necessary to my holistic well-being as romantic love.

So, I threw myself into some smarmy dynamic with this girl I didnt even connect with, and it was... (shudders to think) uncomfortable, to say the least.

Maybe you'll have better luck,
but I dont know if I can be "that guy", however hard I try (or my #$@& gets).

I think it makes a difference when even one person abstains from casting in their lot with the killing/eating of animal flesh.
I have struggled with this too.

But the real issue isnt what you do or dont do...

The real issue here, is that you have made love conditional for yourself. You have been refining those conditions to the point of a near-fanatical idealism, ever since you learned to think with that high-minded mind of yours.

The answer is, perhaps, not to indulge in all those material things you have kept yourself chaste from, but, to indulge in some of that love which you formerly only permitted yourself to feel when you had fulfilled some condition or other.

Otherwise, you may just be trying to get back at yourself. Your inner rebel is about to seriously blow it, if you dont learn to relax your inner tyrant.

I repeat, behaviors are not the issue.
Love yourself, and a working love for others will follow.
"Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven,
and all these things shall be added freely unto you."

Accept, allow, forgive, just be in the moment.
The more you try to force yourself,
in whatever direction,
the more you block the natural flow of the universe through you.
(IMO)

If that doesnt work, eat a cheeseburger, and smoke a blunt!

Lastly, I wanted to remind you of a basic universal principle.
"It's always darkest just before the dawn."
What you are feeling now is not necessarily an indication of how you will continue to feel, if you dont make changes.
Changes happen anyway.
More likely, you are releasing something, a block,
and this is actually a time when your good works are bearing good fruit, though it may not feel that way.
In occult terms, you are detoxing your emotional body.
The sludge is finally scrubbed loose and it must rise to the surface.
Dont quit now!, just rinse it one last time.

If you relax into your emotions,
they may intensify and overtake you for a moment, but it is the only way for the energy to resolve itself.
You must feel this, sooner or later.
And the sooner you feel/free these painful emotions, the sooner you can feel great again,
and the less devastating the flood will be.

posted February 13, 2006 01:23 PM            

Ahh..what you are saying... and it not so many words, is what we all go through and feel when we are going through the healing process again.

This is the time when you are learning about the importance of merging the animal with the human sides of your being.

Many people will never even approach the idea, because it scares them to admit they have that animal inside of them. Just look at those that allow only their animal side to rule? They fight tooth and nail to keep their human / philosophical side from emerging.

A person will never be whole until they merge the dark and the light. We all have it in us.

I went through that period when I left the Ex. All my life I had lived a certain way. Followed the right path, believed in every sob story...etc... but then I started to become a bit more cynical and jaded. But.. meeting the Taurus reminded me that we are upper and lower beings at the same time. I was just learning to accept those parts of myself when I was faced with a person ruled by the lower animal. I am not crying over it... I am more powerful because of it.

But when I left.. I also said to myself. WHY AM I LIVING FOR OTHERS and not FOR MYSELF? Why can't I date more than one guy at one time or have sex without those strings attached? I am human like them and I do have that nature in me as well. But.. at least for me, I realized sex is more to me that something to gratify (Mars in Pisces) but I still enjoy dating a couple of guys at the same time LOL.. if I can keep the names straight

You are trying to strike a balance within yourself and in that process you will questions your beliefs on love, religion, lifestyle.. in the end you will become the person you are supposed to be, as long as you follow a few principles. Always be honest, do not take from another and do not hurt another.

In that I mean, you may be on your quest to learn more about that animal side, but in the process to not manipulate another or push your views on another. It is stimulating to speak with others about the changes within (I had the whole vegetarian fight within myself years ago.. I am a meat eater, but I never forget the sacrifice the animal made).

I am a stronger person for what happened to me and so are you. I have found that through this process I am emerging as someone that is more magnetic and I love myself more. Does that make sense?

Think of it as being in that stage where you are in that cocoon ready to break out. What does the butterfly think before he / she emerges ready to face the world?

I believe you will find more people are attracted to you and seek you out. During my transition (which occured about 4 months before I even left) I joined a local organization where I could meet with people and do charity work. No brainwashing religious kind of stuff.. just people wanting to help others. Through them I found a deep passion in helping others and met tons of friends along the way.

posted February 13, 2006 01:25 PM            

I choose not to add any intellectualisim to this as the others before me have done so well.

What I would like to add is a segment of a lyrically profound song by a fellow fish
Kurt Cobain....

"Underneath the bridge
tarp has sprung a leak
And the
animals I've trapped
have all become my pets
And I'm livin' off of grass and and the drippins' from the cealin'
It's ok to eat fish cause' they
don't have any feelings..........."

Society ate that fish alive.

Love, Hippi

posted February 13, 2006 01:50 PM              

Well reading first few posts, I was swaying both ways

Oh Swerve,
I too have felt that I need to fall of the pedestal (not exactly as you want to be¡K in some other different context ¡V as it might be a minor hurt which the other person may not even know that I was hurt).

However I am with Neptune Muse (at the moment, as never know when I could be put in such a situation). For a while I too feel where my life is headed (similar to whatever Swerve wrote). I guess my feeling of wanting to enjoy/survive, is coming just because I put myself into restrain (idealistic living) and now if some situation is causing to break the restrain to feel the happiness (don¡¦t know material/inner/spiritual); I feel to break free of it. With thoughts like, what is the use of restrain/idealistic thinking. Would I really be able to stand the life¡¦s tests. Somehow trying on, with some ammo like ¡§spiritual path is not a cake walk¡¨, else everyone would have been evolved. Yes, some may not want to be evolved (I even get thoughts what¡¦s the point being an evolved soul); however there might always be a Pisces pull to become an evolved person.

Come on Swerve, you are not alone out here; we are all with you in the fish school ¡K to keep on learning. You don¡¦t want to break something and try to repair it again; it is hard (don¡¦t take it literally and I understand you are seeking just a balance).

WaterN,
Sigh, ¡§Don¡¦t expect¡¨, but can I stop my Pisces hopes, wishes and dreams. Yepp, I too am making myself get buried in work. (I don¡¦t recollect I guess you too have Aries Moon)

I am turning 28 (with natal Saturn Retro). I got Saturn conj Saturn and got astro predictions as - Major life event, beginning of more independence. Time for deep thought, self review. Developmental crisis mentally, depression, displeasure, inefficiency, sorry, beginning of new phase in life, illness (yeah got this cough which I am trying to shake off from me).

Hey IqHunk, What has True node in Libra got to do with marital life. Give me some food for thought, I too might be in something similar ļ

I got transiting Saturn (Retro) Sq natal Uranus ¡V It surely is not an easy time for me with my current situation of relating (may not be same as Swerve¡¦s situation).
Some predications are ¡V Not an easy time, blocking of freedom & independence. Someone challenging your ideas and finds them unconventional. Difficult time to find new and suitable solutions. Non submission, struggle for existence, backlash from past mistakes, sorrow, mishaps, danger of accidents.

Yepp Heart-crossedShape, I too felt that being unnatural (trying to force myself) was not working and causing harm

posted February 13, 2006 01:54 PM            

"I found it hard;
It's hard to find.
Oh, well, whatever,
Nevermind."

"Something in the way, yeah."

"If I say what its like, I might be dreaming."

"In the sun, in the sun I feel as One,
In the sun, I'm married And buried,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!"

"Help Me, I'm f#ckin' hungry,
Hold Me, I'm f#ckin' ugly,
Gag me, I'm f#ckin' cornered,
Grade me, it might be fun."

"You can cough on me again."

"Truth covered in security
I can't let you smother me
I'd like to but it couldn't work
Trading off and taking turns
I don't regret a thing

And I've got this friend, you see
Who makes me feel and I
Wanted more than I could steal
I'll arrest myself, I'll wear a shield
I'll go out of my way to prove I still
Smell her on you

Don't tell me what I wanna hear
Afraid of never knowing fear
Experience anything you need
I'll keep fighting jealousy
Until it's f*cking gone

And I've got this friend, you see
Who makes me feel and I
Wanted more than I could steal
I'll arrest myself, I'll wear a shield
I'll go out of my way to prove I still
Smell her on you

Truth covered in security
I can't let you smother me
I'd like to but it couldn't work
Trading off and taking turns
I don't regret a thing

And I've got this friend, you see
Who makes me feel and I
Wanted more than I could steal
I'll arrest myself, I'll wear a shield
I'll go out of my way to make you a deal
We'll make a pact to learn from
whomever we want without new rules
We'll share what's lost and what we grew
They'll go out of their way
To prove they still
Smell her on you
they still
Smell her on you
Smell her on you."

"I love myself better than you.
I know it's wrong so what should I do?"

"Grandma, take me home!"

posted February 13, 2006 01:57 PM            

I'm glad to hear you're taking this step. The people most affective in healing the human race are people who participate in it. There's no need to stay above the fray, or to prove your moral superiority. Join the earthlings.

You were trying to save animals, and now you'll save a few plants. Who's to say that a plant's life is less worthy than an animal's? Who's to say that plants and animals aren't both intended for consumption?

Experience is the best teacher. Go experience life! Your core will always be good, and your innocence will never be completely lost. You needn't worry about that.

posted February 13, 2006 02:51 PM              

Yep, you bet. (another Pisces here). Before reading the rest of the thread, my first thought was "hmm, could we be Saturn Returning" ... and yep, that's it. Give another year or so, and you'll be SO THERE ... off that idealistic pedestal and given a whole new perception.

It's funny ... because I was a vegetarian in my 20s too (actually from 18 - 28). Of course, nothing wrong with that (I still eat much healthier and more veggies than the average bear). At 28, I started eating meat again. Why? I said "you know, dear self-righteous self, why NOT?!" ... I liked steak.

Hang in there, you're almost thru it.