posted February 19, 2006 10:51 AM              

First of all, i'm new to this forum, and i must say i'm loving to read all the feedback you've been giving to every posts i have read,this seems to be a very active and friendly forum!

Now, my issue...

I've been dating a Pisces 30 year old for about 2 years... i think he's the love of my life... we feel such empathy towards one another... (i'm Scorpio with Moon in Pisces, and he has Scorpio Rising... so i guess that helps a lot to this empathy...)...

Well, the problem is that he has a lot of problems... speccially inner problems, mental and emotional...

i think he is the typical pisces... always trying to run away from troubles, never wanting to face them... and always confused, having a feeling of not-belonging to this place, city, country...planet??? ...

yet, he has another terrible problem...

he has come from a very abusive family, where his own father beat him up, raped and tryied to kill his mother in front of him, and his own mother never has helped him or gave any guidance in his life, on the contrary, if he arrived home with blood on his face (because a man on his town had hurt him for no reason), she would never ask what had happened and empathyse with his pain... she'd would actually say he was just like his father, always looking for troubles, and that he had deserved what the other man had done!!

well, i think his past , along with his scorpio ascendant or other aspects on his chart may have influenced the way he learned to deal with everything in his life...

he has never give himself totally to anyone...until now... with me...

he is the most beautiful person i have ever know, so generous, friendly, tender, a really good listener... and he really love's me...

but there's the other side... everytime he's confronted with frustating situations (such has losing his job, finding i've been receiving phone calls from my ex...) , he just can't control himself and starts beating me... afterwards...he tries to kill himself...

he's taking antidepressives for 3 onths and his anger and instability problems are better, but eventually he sometimes "explode" again...

so i would like to know if anyone could help me interpret his chart in order to find if he has the skills to help himself...

here are his natal aspects:

Sun: Pisces in 5th house
Moon: Sagittarius in 2nd house
Venus: Aries in 6th house
Mars: Aquarius in 3rd house
Saturn: Cancer in 9th house
Uranus: Scorpio in 12th house
Neptune: Sagitarius in 2nd house
Pluto: Libra in 11th house

he has the Sun square the Moon;
Sun trine Saturn
Sun Square Neptune
Moon Trine Venus; Moon Conjunction Neptune; Venus Square Saturn; Venus Trine Neptune; Venus Opposite Pluto; Mars Square Urano; Mars Square Ascendant; Saturn square Pluto; Urano Conjunction Ascendant; Neptune Sextile Pluto;

i would aprecciate your help so much!!!

thank you...**

posted February 19, 2006 11:54 AM              

You said:

quote:

---

...he just can't control himself and starts beating me...

---

You are in brutal, sadistic/masochistic relationship and should leave as soon as possible. A person who is in love with someone DOES NOT beat them. You can not help this person until they get control of their anger first. Becoming a punching bag for their anger does not solve their problems or help your self-esteem.

Non-astrologically,

posted February 19, 2006 12:52 PM              

Even if your boyfriend can't help himself, you CAN help yourself, and I am saying this because of issues of personal safety.

posted February 19, 2006 01:40 PM              

Your personal experience with this man mirrors one I once had, and have seen loved ones go through too. I know you love him, but you MUST love yourself as well and you will never respect yourself while you are in this dangerous cycle of abuse. You are always afraid that you are going to be the object of violence. The person hurting you makes you feel like things that are out of your control are going to make him angry and then he punishes you. Then he becomes suicidal and then that makes you forget that you were just brutalized and your attention goes to him, you feel scared for him. Tough as it sounds, it does not matter at all if he is sorry. That is not the real issue.

You have been dragged into a cycle of violence and degradation. Unfortunately, it is the all too familiar pattern of domestic violence. FORTUNATELY, your sense of self has not been obliterated and you have shared this info, that means your instinct is telling you this is not right. You have done absolutely nothing to bring this on yourself, and this has nothing to do with either of your astrology charts, or who calls you on the phone, the weather, or anything else.

Before I left my abuser, I went through,"I love him. I know he is in a lot of emotional pain. We are soulmates, and how can I leave my soulmate? He's in such pain he weeps after beating me. He doesn't *want* to do it, its out of his control. We've had so many beautiful, incredible moments together. Those were as real as the sun in the sky. How can I leave?"

YOU MUST LEAVE NOW.

The sad truth is that you will only suffer more and more. Your life will become less meaningful each day, and you will be in more danger each day. The illness your boyfriend has already sees you as THE target, and does NOT value YOU at all. Whether he intends to actually hurt you or not, he is. That WILL NOT CHANGE. Honest. He will only get worse, you will be brutalized more and in worse ways. If a person who has been abused and expresses violence himself, these abusers ALWAYS get worse and they will commit the violence that was committed against them. If you have not already been subjected to sexual abuse, you soon will be. As long as you stay with him, he WILL hurt you. It really does escalate until one or both of you is killed.

At first you will be very sad when you leave.You are leaving "What could have been," however this relationship will never, ever be what you would like it to be. No matter what. That is a fact. And I know that is very sad for you.

Yes, he indeed needs help, but you cannot help him except by leaving. There is nothing you can do to help him except leave right now!

You are not alone. Millions of people are put in this situation, by no fault of their own. There are hotlines and websites that can help you make the first step. I'll get that info for you after I write this. Please start thinking about where you can go that is safe: a friends place? a relative? a discreet neighbor? you don't have to explain your whole situation, all you need to say is,"I'm not safe. This is as serious as it gets. I need help." You are probably completely exhausted right now, but just focus your energy on getting safe. If someone doesn't get it, don't try to explain yourself, move on to the next safety option. Do not let any thought like,"Well, I can leave tomorrow," or "Hey, I'm probably bothering people and just overreacting." Just listen to that instinct that made you post here, and INSIST on getting your life back.

You've already made a huge step by telling us. You can get out of this. You are worth it in every way.

~ Zelda

It may seem like I'm being overly dramatic, overreacting, but I'm not. You aren't able to see the picture we outsiders can because you are having to live each day minute by minute because you are being hurt, your brain is in survival mode, and the person you adore and want to trust has pulled you into his terribly unhealthy way of seeing things.

posted February 19, 2006 03:28 PM              

It's such a heartbreaker because you connect so intensely on so many levels, and we all want to find that one special person.

posted February 19, 2006 07:21 PM              

There is a lot of anger building in me as well with the opposition and I have found constructive ways to burn it off through other a new job in Boston, and a new home, new friends, doing things myself more, and working out.

After my house is sold I am prepared to move to NYC as I am looking for an apt now, making friends there, and I already landed three jobs in the city when I get there.

All this energy is good but scary, I don't know when it will end and I can't channel it into a romantic relationship or screw it up.

Take your boyfriend and send him in another direction than yourself, he can't fix his problems through you-

And you can't fix a man, you have to take care of yourself first, and that takes some separation.

You don't have to stop loving him just be separate. I find water men to be quite obsessive and it's hard to deal with, but you can be there and out of reach at the same time.

Remember winter is a time for working on yourself-you need this time, he needs the time, there is a reason why we finish projects and prepare in winter.

Don't give into this, find your own cure for winter blues,

posted February 20, 2006 09:02 AM              

first of all, i want to thank all of your replies, it means a lot to me.

i'm sending a general post first and then a post where i'll reply on every comments that you have made.

as for the issue that brought me here...

i want you to know that i understand what all of you have said, maybe when you read this you thought that i was in that victim/abuser, masochist/sadistic cycle that we all hear about on tv and the newspaper, where the victim has low self-esteem and feels maybe she deserves to be beaten, and who believes he will stop, and the abuser saying that he will stop,etc...

i would probably answer the same thing as you did in this situation...

but i want to say that i don't have low self-esteem. i'm a very confidant person, in fact. i KNOW that i can be happy without him, my life doens't depend on him...

but the question is that i LOVE him, and i'm a very idealistic person (for better and for worse, as some might say), and i believe that love CAN heal. I've set my boundaries and limits, and i know that in the first day that i begin to fear him, i'll leave and never look behind.

but he has never crossed my lines... probably you'll think "i would never accept that", but everyone has its own limits, and i don't feel threatened by him at all.

on the other hand (and believe me, i would never have continued to date him if he never proved me this) he has already CHANGED HIMSELF a lot...

in the beginning of our relationship he was very insecure, he'd try to search for messages on my phone and didn't like me to go out with friends... today he's totally different, he's the first one to say sincerelly "go and have a blast!" and never asks with whom have i been talking.

on the other hand, he was the one who decided to start taking anti-depressives (and he was averse to medication all his life). he has also been learning to deal with his anger, telling me "go away, i'll talk to you later" when he feels he's in a bad mood. we've also decided it would be easier to control himself if he'd let out his anger in more positive ways, such as by doing sports, and he started jogging.

believe me, he's not the typical abuser who says he won't beat again, he's the first to say "go away, i hurt you so much!", he never promisses me that he won't hurt me anymore, he says "i'll try" and finds new ways to be a better person.

and i'm not the typical abused, saying he will stop, because i'll help him... i'm aware that only him can help himself, i'll just want to be on his side during his journey, because i love him and i want to be with him the rest of my life... that is, of course, if he gets better before he crosses my limits.

sorry for the long post, i wrote all this just to perhaps make things a bit more clear to you.

i'm hoping to get some feedback from you.***

posted February 20, 2006 09:49 AM              

wilsontc / Tim -

believe me, i don't fear him, i'm almost 100% sure (we can't never say 100%, can we? )that things can't get any worse. When you say "A person who is in love with someone DOES NOT beat them", i have to disagree. in my opinion that is only true for people with no problems, with no emotional insecurities and with anger problems. These people can love the other, they just can't control themselves. You're right when you say i can't help him... it has to be him, but i'm willing to wait as long as he doens't overcross the limits which i've set and make me be afraid of him. i agree with you when you say im sort of a punshing bag for his anger, but he really gets better everyday, he tries really hard... we're talking about changing his personality, that takes time... and me be willing to be on his side doens't make my self-esteem grow higher, believe me.

globe trotter -

you say he's following his father's pattern, thats absolutlly true for me, i agree with you. but he's not his father. i think he won't never do certain things. believe me, if he does, he'll never see me again. You also say i shouldn't be giving him any excuses. I have to say that to me, thinking about his past isn't about giving excuses, its about learning about the causes of his behaviour, and it helps me understand his actions. Understanding makes me forgive, not forget. If he makes anything worse, i'll give up.

Rede411 -

when i say "i think he's the love of my life" is because i'm a very rational as well as emotive person. i know that we can't always be sure of nothing. how can i know the future? in the present, and acoounting on all the other relationships i've been into, i know he's the one who completes me the most in almost all the possible ways, and i know it will be hard to find someone as special as he. i really do love him, i've had relationships before (and "normal" relationships, without the abuse situation) and he's the one who i loved the most and the only with whom i would marry someday... only if he gets better...
you say "He unfortunately hates himself " . i have to say to you that i think the only part of him that he hates is his agressivity, he feels he's a good and special person (and every person, really, every person that meets him, likes him instantly and a lot of people say he's an angel, since he makes everyone feel better, just by sitting next to them...). You say "YES, he can help himself but chooses NOT TO" and "You cannot help him...only he can do that" - i agree with the last one, but not the first, he chooses to change himself, he tries really hard to do that, and he's achieving his goals, but very slowly, afterall we're talking about dismantling a whole personality and a life of abuse, it must take time... yes, i know that a relationship with abuse is definetelly wrong, but since he's getting better and since i know (almost for sure) that he's the love of my life, i'll wait by his side... as long as he doesn't overcross the limits i've set to myself. believe me, my gut instinct tells me i should believe in this love.

ariestiger -

i'm sorry for what you've been through... but believe me, i will never marry him if he doens't prove me he's changed completelly.
i assure you if i thought my personal safety was threatened i would give up. of course you'll probably say its obvious that its being threatened, after all, someone's beating me... i'll say that i've set my boundaries and if he overcrosses them i'll give up. i'll be very sad but i'll go on, as he will.

taurean_scorpion -

finaaly someone who says something about astrology... (although i understand people won't even remember why did i post this, since this is such a big issue...)believe me, he has tried a lot of times to kill himself, but he told me he never has the courage cause he feels he is a good person, and still has a lot to do in his life... and a lot of love to give, to me and his friends and family. i don't think he would kill himself if i left him. and if he eventually did that, i know it wouldn't be my fault... i don't feel guilty at all, and wouln't be if i ended this. also, i don't think he'a masochist or sadist, he likes himself, he has a reasonable self-esteem, he is the first to tell me that he would find another person to be with (he has a lot of pretenders) but he says i'm the one whom he really loves and he thinks i'm the only one who could make him truly complete (i feel the same). i know i don't deserve this, i too have a good self-esteem. but i'm willing to wait until he gets better, since he's doing everything he can, he's using all his energies to struggle against himself! that must take a long time to achieve, don't you agree?

posted February 20, 2006 10:59 AM              

first of all, i'm sorry you've been through somethings as i did.

you said "You are always afraid that you are going to be the object of violence" - i must say that i never have really feared him, i only get scared when he's out of control, but that happens every 2 months or so.

you say "Then he becomes suicidal and then that makes you forget that you were just brutalized and your attention goes to him, you feel scared for him." - believe me, i only feel scared for this world, since i don't believe that a person can't change herself - that means that everyperson who is born under terrible conditions has to be an abuser the rest of his life? that means that an abused child can't have a healthy relationship? i refuse to accept that, i'm very idealistic (maybe too much, as some will say) and i believe that love can heal, as long as the people in the relationship are aware of what they're doing and not getting themselves hurt... i know you think i'm getting myself hurt, obviously i am, but i love him, and i want to spend my life with him, he completes me in such ways i can't express to no one. words can't describe it. everyone close to him says he's an angel, since he helps people just by sitting by their side. of course i know my limits, i've set them to myself, and if someday he overcrosses them i'll have to give up on this love.

i don't feel that the fact that he tries to kill himself makes me forget what he's done. i never forget, i actually think about this many times. i just forgive him, because i understand why he does it. but i'm not scared that he'll kill himself, i think he won't do that (he's told me that too, if you want, read the last replies i've wrote). i'm not in this relationship because i fear he won't live without me. i'm in this relationship because i love him, and love, to me, is accepting the other one and helping him in the ways we can, not letting our life be ruled by his. my life doens't depend on him, nor his depends on mine, even if it does sound that way to people who hear about this.
you said "your sense of self has not been obliterated and you have shared this info, that means your instinct is telling you this is not right." - that was not the reason why i posted this story. i know i won't stand this for too long, but i've decided to wait, since he's showned me with a lot of real actions (and not promises, he never promises me anything, he says he'll try...) that he CAN change himself (please read my second long post), but i can't expect him to transform something that has been inside of him for about 30 years in one day or two... i posted this story in order to try to find some more reasons to believe he will succed on his "mission".

i don't feel my life is becoming more and more meaningful, i know none of this is my fault, nor his. i feel we can get through it, he is the one who has to change, but i can manage to stay by his side until then (only if he doesn't hurt me in a way where i'll find myself being afraid of him).

maybe you don't consider this a real argument, but believe me, in these last two years happened many things to him that, if i believed in those things, i would say he was under a spell or something...

he was robbed and lost a lot of money, all his documents which he spend previously, a lot of days and moneu in order to get, his ex-wife won't let him see his child for about 2 years now, he has lived in a car, a garage and in 7 different houses in the past 2 years, because people just wouldn't keep their promises. He had an accident last year where he lost some of his front teeth, he was dismissed from his work because he kept skipping work due to depression, although he was considered the second best worker of the company!

of course none of this can excuse agression, speccially to someone he loves, but at least makes me understand!

"If you have not already been subjected to sexual abuse, you soon will be" - i refuse to believe that, there are certain things i just know he won't do. i mean, i know we can never be 100% sure... but it my most honest answer)

you suggest that i find a safe place. i never feel threatened by him. (only in those out of control moments, but that happens very rarely).

zelda, thanks for your will to help, trying to find information for me, even if i'm in portugal . i know one organization, actually,who speccializes in helping woman under domestic violence. but i've never seen myself in the stories i've heard on tv and elsewhere. i've never felt those horrible feelings and distorced thinkings which i've heard them talking about.

i know this has got to end. but i'm willing to wait a bit more, since he proves me day by day that he IS getting better. he's proving me that people can change themselves!

MoonDuchess88 -

he is taking professionel jelp, he's trying to start psychotherapy and has already dobled his anti-depressive dosage.
thanks for the "tip", i understand why you say it, but he gets better every day and i don't want to give up now.

astro junkie
-

yes, we connect in that way... and love never ceases to surprise me...

sthenri / Natascha -

thanks also for the astro part, i was hoping at least someone would say something about astrology

i must tell you that i'm not at all on winter blues, i'm in fact very happy... although i understand that you feel i'm in sort of a denial defense mechanism or something...
i'm happy cause i'm a very idealistic person and i'm learning that the romantic books and movies i've seen aren't all lies and ilusions... love can actually help. at least my "angel" is changing himself, he's giving all of his energy to become a better person. as long as i don't feel i'm becoming depressed or angry or scared, i don't think i'll give up on this love, its so difficult to find someone that truly understands, loves and cares for us, that i won't give up nom...at least not yet...i feel he still has a lot of things to show me.

posted February 20, 2006 11:44 AM              

Since you have taken the time to add some of your current experiences to this forum...perhaps we can address more of this from an astrological angle.

It would be most helpful if you wouldn't mind posting both of your birth data so we can see what are the astro-structure aspects you both contribute in this relationship.

You will find that the majority of people on this LL forum are very caring and positive people who, though living many miles apart, will share their experiences in hopes that other's can benefit. Keeping in mind that you are a newbie at this site, the Knowflakes are simply reaching out to support you in the best way they can...and the beauty in this, is that they all want to assist you and support you by giving their best efforts!

So...with this in mind, please post your astrological dates etc...(many of us like to look at a chart(s) to read them) so that we can get a better picture of you and him. Also, the information will aid you and the direction in which you can utilize your many strengths to understand the various issues a bit better. It will be an extremely interesting and perhaps a more methodical approach for you to learn about the synastry between you two! There are many answers within the astrological charts that are quite fascinating to uncover!! I bet you will be able to gain a lot of insight from the knowledge that will be shared from the many friends here at LindaLand!

Welcome!

Much Peace-

posted February 20, 2006 01:42 PM            

I feel enormous fear whenever I read a post like yours, as it brings back my own bad memories, and I worry about the loss of another precious life due to domestic violence. Perhaps the following may be harsh. Perhaps being harsh is what it will take for you to WAKE UP.

Please get in contact with your Self and leave this Pisces immediately instead of trying to understand irrational behavior and trying to heal rage with compassion. It doesn’t work. I’ve been there – right where you are now. Astrology is not going to help you. If I said that Mars square Uranus is a sure sign of more violence to come, and perhaps death for you, you wouldn’t believe me anyway, would you?? I wouldn’t have, when I was still living with my abuser, trying to love his pain away – and I was SURE I could do that. Btw, mine attempted suicide a few times too, and of course I was right there at his side waiting to help in any way I could, still covered with bruises from the last temper tantrum.

quote:

---

i'm almost 100% sure (we can't never say 100%, can we?) that things can't get any worse.

---

quote:

---

but the question is that i LOVE him, and i'm a very idealistic person (for better and for worse, as some might say), and i believe that love CAN heal. I've set my boundaries and limits, and i know that in the first day that i begin to fear him, i'll leave and never look behind.

---

You’ve given quite a litany of all the ways he is trying to overcome his failure to deal with life’s frustrations in a non-violent manner – ie, taking anti-depressants, jogging, telling you “go away” when he’s angry. This is a START. It is NOT a REASON TO STAY. His attempts at change are a trifle encouraging, but unless the violence stops, and stays stopped, there is NO progress.

quote:

---

When you say "A person who is in love with someone DOES NOT beat them", i have to disagree. in my opinion that is only true for people with no problems, with no emotional insecurities and with anger problems. These people can love the other, they just can't control themselves.

---

quote:

---

he has lived in a car, a garage and in 7 different houses in the past 2 years, because people just wouldn't keep their promises.

---

I will cease and desist here by saying that you can love the potential in a person, as I did with the abusive man I lived with. My ex did all the self-improvement things your Pisces is doing, plus Anger Management classes, and DV-Victims boards. But I believe if I had stayed, I would be dead now – our son motherless and his father in prison for murder. Until your Pisces can learn self-control in relation to you (and everyone else), and consistently use positive ways to channel the rage and pain he hasn’t (cannot?) let go of, you are AT RISK. Do you really want to become a statistic, your life wasted because of misplaced altruistic feelings?? (I can almost hear your reply “it won’t happen to me!”) I hope you are taking adequate precautions birth-control-wise, so that you don’t bring a child into this Hell you live in. Final note: You say you will marry him “only if he gets better”. What kind of odds are there that he will ever renounce violence as a way of dealing with his feelings?? How about finding someone instead who is already “better” or “normal” and doesn’t need to “change” for you??

I apologize for being very direct and probably saying things you didn’t want to hear. I’ve been there, and I escaped and lived. I hope you can find the strength to do the same. You can’t fix him, and you know that. You’re just looking for validation here, and I don’t think there will be one person replying to this thread who will advise, “yes, stay, you can make a miracle happen and things will get better.”

Please post your charts or give birth stats, by all means. The analysis-experts here will probably be able to give you the danger signs in your synastry. Would that be enough for you to leave this relationship? Somehow I doubt it.

Love Yourself First!
‘Zala

PS: If you take nothing else away from this string as food for thought but this, then all of us who posted here will have succeeded in our efforts:

quote:

---

It may seem like I'm being overly dramatic, overreacting, but I'm not. You aren't able to see the picture we outsiders can because you are having to live each day minute by minute because you are being hurt, your brain is in survival mode, and the person you adore and want to trust has pulled you into his terribly unhealthy way of seeing things.

---

posted February 20, 2006 02:23 PM              

He must prove himself.

If you do not agree to this, could it mean you are more in love with YOUR IDEALISM and flase notion of sacrifice than with him.

What if you have a child. What if he does not change sufficiently and whacks your baby child. Whose fault will it be? Did you love him so that he could whack an innocent baby? Dont you think if you truly love him, you should see to it that he does not incur many lives of bad karma that comes from abusing a child?

If you love someone set them free. You must free this guy to solve his puzzle himself

Think wisely and objectively.

posted February 20, 2006 02:39 PM              

quote:

---

maybe you don't consider this a real argument

---

Don't feel you need to defend yourself to me. I offered my opinion and experience. I meant everything I wrote, and I also know each person much take their own path in life. I don't perceive you as being "wrong" and I "right," so don't feel you have to provide reasons or arguments. I'm not judging you, I'm just concerned. Thanks for reading what I posted & responding.

Gemstar said:

quote:

---

the majority of people on this LL forum are very caring and positive people who, though living many miles apart, will share their experiences in hopes that other's can benefit. Keeping in mind that you are a newbie at this site, the Knowflakes are simply reaching out to support you in the best way they can...and the beauty in this, is that they all want to assist you and support you by giving their best efforts!

---

Gem put it very well.

posted February 20, 2006 05:03 PM            

Here's an interp of one of the Piscean's natal aspects:

quote:

---

Astrology aspects - Mars square Ascendant
Mars square the Ascendant indicates that you show not moderation in asserting yourself. When you feel the urge to take action about something important, you usually do so without polish or refinement. When you act this way, people resent it and find you offensive. When reminded of your shortcomings, you are offended because you feel you should not have to answer to anyone for your actions. It is nearly impossible to stop you from expressing your opinion, and you don't care where you are or who hears you. Anyone who provokes you invites your immediate reaction, usually a negative one.

You seem to enjoy watching people become upset by your display of bad manners. You delight in putting people on the defensive and watching them squirm as you antagonize them with your tirades. Because you aren't really convinced of your superiority, you have a chip on your shoulder. Only winning in a show of strength can satisfy your ego.

Your parents probably tried to stimulate you to do the things they were unable to accomplish in their lives, and you became annoyed by this pressure. Disagreements and bickering in your early home life have caused you to become bitter and resentful of authority. Although you want your talents to be recognized, your inability to submit to authority creates problems and restricts the progress of your career. Problems may also result because your parents could not provide you with an education. If you have received an education, you have done so by your own efforts.

You admire people who can translate their capabilities into financial gain. But if you are willing to endure the self-denial and sacrifice required, you can accomplish the same thing. You know your future security depends on successfully developing your potentials. You are willing to work hard to realize your goals, but there are times when you wonder if they are worth all the effort and the frustrations you must endure.

---

posted February 20, 2006 05:37 PM              

...and here's some other natal aspects of the Piscean:

quote:

---

Astrology aspects - Venus opposition Pluto
The challenging aspects of square and opposition invariably display the dark face of the distorted Pluto energy...

It is likely that you will experience a repetitive pattern of sexual love and emotional affairs which either do not seem to satisfy and fulfil you, or collapse into failure, acrimony and suffering. This can lead to a jaded, cynical attitude...

Your emotional intensity and passion is likely to cause difficulties for you, as it often seems to run away out of your control, and can take you into situations and encounters which from a clearer perspective you would consider to be undesirable...your sexual and emotional desires can be too strong, creating distortions of inner energy and leading to compulsive behaviour on your part - followed by an attempt at justification in the vein of 'I couldn't help myself...'...

Problems can arise in your intimate relationships due to your tendency to introduce the elemnt of domination. You tend to demand your own way or assume a dominating role, sometimes played out in potentially damaging sexual and emotional contexts, sometimes obvious, sometimes more subtle...Usually, you want your partners to change to suit you, and you can put intense pressure upon them, especially sexually and emotionally.

...you appear to 'blow very hot and very cold' in your responses to them; this is when your inner impulses arise and fall in some hidden rhythmic cycle, leading to uncontrollable emotional and sexual needs and intensity, or to a lack of response and to coldness...

---

From: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/venus-opposition-pluto.php

From:

quote:

---

MARS square URANUS
The square formed between Mars and Uranus shows desire for complete freedom to act without hesitation or restraint...This is a difficult aspect for fostering an out-of-control temper...

---

From: http://www.astrology-numerology.com/aspects-mars.html

quote:

---

Astrology aspects - Saturn square Pluto
...You tend to be searching for status, power and the opportunity to influence people's lives, much in the same way that you feel your own life has been affected by nameless unknown others who make socially influential decisions. There is an element of wanting to dominate within you, possibly to 'get your own back' through blaming others for any problems that you have had...

---

From: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/saturn-square-pluto.php

Linking,

posted February 20, 2006 07:39 PM            

Here's a Sun square Moon interp, although we won't know the orb until/unless you post chart/birth stats.....

When the Sun and the Moon form an aspect in the natal chart, we are dealing with the interplay between our wants and our needs, our conscious and our unconscious, our actions and our responses, the present and the past, the rational and the irrational, and so forth. The Sun and the Moon are like day and night, and an aspect between them reveals the type of dialogue between these two luminaries.

Many astrologers feel that the relationship between the Sun and the Moon in the natal chart reveals the types of messages we received from our parents or parent figures.

When the Sun and the Moon form a challenging aspect with one another, any gratification earned through either the Sun or the Moon appears to be at the expense of the other. When the native satisfies the ego, it seems to be at the expense of the emotions; when the emotions are fulfilled, it is at the expense of the ego.

Sun square Moon
What people who were born with Sun square Moon in their natal charts want and what they need are in conflict. The Sun square Moon aspect is similar to the Sun opposition Moon aspect in this sense, but there are very notable differences. Whereas the struggle between wants and needs is mostly played out on the inside and through significant relationships with Sun opposition Moon people, Sun square Moon people tend to confront obstacles that come from the outside. In truth, the struggle is within, as it is a case of being "one's own worst enemy". There can be a tendency to attract challenging situations into the life as an unconscious attempt to recreate the tension of early childhood. As well, specific habits and attitudes can hamper their progress in life.
These people generally have a need to achieve and accomplish something important, and they act out their internal struggle along the way. For whatever reason, these people didn't feel needed or accepted. The clash between their parents or parent figures, if indeed there was one, made them feel unaccepted for who they were, and there can be a very real drive to prove themselves to the world (and/or to the parents). The parents may not have simply been opposite personalities, as is the case with Sun opposition Moon. It is more likely that their relationship was a continual struggle. Sun square Moon individuals internalized the tension in the cosmic air that they were born into, and felt out of place as a result. In some cases, they literally felt unwanted by one or both parents. Even if the parents didn't clash, the early life was likely to have been over-stimulating and tense, causing the child to feel insecure.
These people experience a struggle between their need for nurture and their need for independence. When they get the autonomy that they seem to crave, they feel unsupported by others. When they receive the support they crave, they feel smothered. This internal clash is most apparent in the relationships they form, especially in the first half of their lives when they may not be aware of these patterns. Confrontations and challenges are frequent--not just with romantic partners, but also on the job, with friends, and so forth. However, these people have a lot of drive and spunk. They are resilient creatures who have faced conflict and who have survived it. Although they face a struggle with fluctuating energy, they are motivated to accomplish something. Ideally, they learn through experience to accomplish something for themselves rather than to prove their worth to others.

posted February 21, 2006 11:36 AM              

thanks again for your replies. i'll comment on them brefly.

in the meantime, here are our astrological data:

AstroText Partner - Short Edition
________________________________________
for Paulo (male)
born on 4 March 1975 local time 11:30 pm
in Caldas da Rainha, PORT U.T. 22:30
9w08, 39n24 sid. time 08:41:42

PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Pisces 13°43'22 05
Moon Sagittarius 14°47'04 02
Mercury Aquarius 16°30'41 04
Venus Aries 11°43'34 06
Mars Aquarius 01°17'04 03
Jupiter Pisces 26°40'51 05
Saturn Cancer 12°01'34 09
Uranus Scorpio 02°09'05 12/1
Neptune Sagittarius 11°46'13 02
Pluto Libra 08°32'38 11/12
True Node Sagittarius 04°48'56 02

HOUSE POSITIONS (Placidus)
Ascendant Scorpio 02°18'56
2nd House Sagittarius 00°46'26
3rd House Capricorn 03°11'54
Imum Coeli Aquarius 08°00'36
5th House Pisces 11°00'40
6th House Aries 09°10'38
Descendant Taurus 02°18'56
8th House Gemini 00°46'26
9th House Cancer 03°11'54
Medium Coeli Leo 08°00'36
11th House Virgo 11°00'40
12th House Libra 09°10'38
___________________________________
____
_
and Diana (female)
born on 27 Oct 1982 local time 04:30 pm
in Lisbon, PORT U.T. 16:30
9w08, 38n43 sid. time 18:16:17

PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Scorpio 03°55'37 07
Moon Pisces 03°46'51 12
Mercury Libra 19°37'42 07
Venus Scorpio 02°02'47 07
Mars Sagittarius 26°49'40 09
Jupiter Scorpio 17°09'32 08
Saturn Libra 26°14'13 07
Uranus Sagittarius 03°02'58 08
Neptune Sagittarius 24°59'06 09
Pluto Libra 27°08'45 07
True Node Cancer 06°30'11 04

HOUSE POSITIONS (Placidus)
Ascendant Aries 06°47'19
2nd House Taurus 15°43'23
3rd House Gemini 11°56'54
Imum Coeli Cancer 03°44'07
5th House Cancer 26°07'05
6th House Leo 24°26'42
Descendant Libra 06°47'19
8th House Scorpio 15°43'23
9th House Sagittarius 11°56'54
Medium Coeli Capricorn 03°44'07
11th House Capricorn 26°07'05
12th House Aquarius 24°26'42
________________________________________
Composite Horoscope midpoint method
PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Capricorn 08°49'30 12
Moon Capricorn 24°16'57 01
Mercury Sagittarius 18°04'12 12
Venus Capricorn 21°53'11 01
Mars Capricorn 14°03'22 12
Jupiter Capricorn 21°55'11 01
Saturn Virgo 04°07'53 08
Uranus Scorpio 17°36'01 10/11
Uranus is technically near the end of house 10 and is interpreted in house 11.
Neptune Sagittarius 18°22'40 12
Pluto Libra 17°50'42 09
True Node Virgo 20°39'34 08/9
True Node is technically near the end of house 8 and is interpreted in house 9.

posted February 21, 2006 01:26 PM            

Thanks for putting up your birth info so that analyses can be made. I hope some of the Transits experts here will take a look at your Pisces’ current crop of celestial activity. Please note that the natal interpretations that Tim and I put up from astro-websites tend to illustrate the negative expression of your Pisces’ natal aspects. There is always a bright side, but only if the native is willing to recognize the problems, work on them, and evolve past them. In my view, all it takes to accomplish this is (very simplified!) a change in perspective along with a change of will/heart. One of my ex’s counsellors taught him to ask himself as he was counting to 100 before taking physical action “This situation I’m overreacting with rage to: how important will it be in an hour? A day? Next year?”

I think it was Linda Goodman who said (something like, I can’t find the exact quote) “And it is said that the more evolved/advanced the entity, the less of a role astrological placements (and transits) in your chart will play -- they're not needed.” Imho, when one has a challenging natal configuration, one can spend one’s life reacting negatively to all the scenarios that will undoubtedly be tossed into one’s path by the Universe. Or one can work in a positive way, consciously realizing that the negative expression of the aspect will always be lying in wait on the path, and consciously choosing an appropriate response to the stimulation. Obviously this is much easier said than done – but it CAN be done!!

I believe your Pisces needs the space to learn better behaviors – space away from the trigger/target that you are. Were I in your place, I would first want to see him keep a steady job for several years, and supporting himself and taking care of himself (doctor, dentist, etc), without blaming everyone else for his problems (“people never keeping their promises”). And unless and until he releases the pain from his childhood abuse (which is something my ex never managed to do, as far as I know), he CANNOT change for the “better”. There were people in my ex’s Anger Management classes that managed to turn their lives around 180 degrees. It can be done. They took responsibility for their actions, instead of living in the victim mentality – always a target for the whims of Fate and the depredations of other people. Imho, your belief that your Pisces “cannot control himself” is not quite applicable – imho, he “chooses” not to control himself, or he “will” not control himself. We all choose our behavior, although many times it is our unconscious reaction to stimuli…..

Learning/practicing Respect will be the dominant theme in your Pisces’ healing, I feel – learning to respect others by not lashing out at them as a way of assuaging his pain from the past, and learning to respect himself by not entertaining thoughts of (or attempts at) suicide. I don’t know what governmental/local resources are available in your area, but there are Domestic Violence Hotlines in Europe and referrals for help/therapy. Your Pisces needs help from trained counsellors, and were I in your place I would be resolute that he avail himself of that help as a condition of continued contact with you.

I join iqhunk in praying to God that you don’t have a child with him in his unconscious/unevolved state, to start the cycle of abuse all over again on another generation. Can you imagine the pain you would feel to witness your lover hurting your child??

And something my brother said once has always resonated with me: “You can’t protect people from themselves.”

posted February 21, 2006 01:56 PM              

I thank you for your welcome, I¡¦ve said before I¡¦m loving this forum since its so active and friendly.

I agree with you, even though I don¡¦t know the people who are replying on my message, they seem highly interested and caring people, and that is something somewhat priceless. ƒº

Believe me I give the adequate credit to all that they¡¦re saying to me, I listen and think about it, although it seems that people sometimes forget the reason why I posted the topic¡K but I can¡¦t say I don¡¦t understand why they¡¦ve done it.

So as some of you asked me, I¡¦ve posted our data, I¡¦d love to hear your interpretations since I don¡¦t know much about astrology¡K but I¡¦m very willing to learn¡K

Thanks again for your nice welcome¡K

Azalaksh ¡V

I can¡¦t thank you enough for the caring and the sharing that you¡¦ve shown in your first post, although, of course, it was very ¡§harsh¡¨, as you¡¦ve said.

I appreciate that, believe me. But I actually don¡¦t think I have to wake up. I¡¦m aware of whats happening. I don¡¦t have distorced thinkings. I¡¦m not in this relationship because of fear (of him hurting himself or even me), but just because I CHOOSE too. I considerer myself an informed person, I read a lot and talk a lot to very different people. I KNOW what I¡¦m doing.

You said ¡§If I said that Mars square Uranus is a sure sign of more violence to come, and perhaps death for you, you wouldn¡¦t believe me anyway, would you?¡¨. I¡¦d teel you that I don¡¦t know much about astrology, but when I posted my first message I knew I was going to have some replies telling me that the aggression would keep going. I believe you when you say that. I have never denied the possibility of being hurt again by my pisces. What I wanted to hear in this forum was if you think he has enough abilities to get over this anger inside of him, as he has done in a lot of other situations which I didn¡¦t tell here.

You say: ¡§ quote - i'm almost 100% sure (we can't never say 100%, can we?) that things can't get any worse. -
________________________________________
So was I, until the night I woke up with a gun pressed to my left temple¡K.. ¡§

Does it manner in some way if I tell you that he has learnt how to kill a man in many different ways, but to me he ¡§only¡¨ gives me a slap in the face and never makes me get really hurt? I have never been with bruises, black eyes, broken arms or anything. I¡¦m not saying that this means that these aggressions aren¡¦t bad, I¡¦m just saying that maybe there¡¦s a little different between him and the other abusers that I¡¦ve heard about.

I understand when you ¡§joke¡¨ about ¡§Oh, the violence only happens every two months?? Well then, I suppose it¡¦s OK¡K..¡¨¡K of course it¡¦s not ok. But I feel that he is getting better, things ARE getting better, not worse.

You say ¡§Do you really want to be ¡§loved¡¨ by someone who demonstrates their ¡§love¡¨ for you by assaulting the temple of your soul?? How about you, selfincontact ¡V did you grow up learning that people who love you hit you??¡¨
Believe me, I¡¦ve been in some relationships before (¡§normal¡¨ ones) and I know stories of ¡§love¡¨ from friends and family, and I know someone like him is very hard to get. I know and everybody who knows him a long time ago says he really loves me. He is the ¡§perfect¡¨ partner everywoman would ask for¡K he listens to me, he¡¦s totally honest, tender, a true friend. Everywoman who meets him falls in love with him, and almost everygirls whom he dated still want to be with him. He has a lot of pretenders, calling him , making him good job offers just for him to be with them, and he never listens, he says I¡¦m the woman he loves. He always tells me ¡§it would be so easy for me, go away, be with another person with whom I could start all over again, a person who could believe me totally, and whom I have never once have hurt. It¡¦s much more difficult for me to still be with you. I know you don¡¦t trust me the way you used too, I know every time you become more demanding on me¡¨.

You say ¡§Funny how people just always seem to be against the abuser, isn¡¦t it?? Always firing him from jobs (never for his temper, I suppose) ¡V how unfair! I fell for all the hard-luck stories with my ex too¡K.. Does he support himself now -- have a steady job or other means of income? Does he have a place to live? Does he pay child support? My ex didn't, because his ex wouldn't let him see the kids¡¨

I think maybe here you are taking too many things from your experience to interpret my issue. The real reason why he was fired from some jobs was because he just couldn¡¦t stand the pain inside him, he¡¦s in a terrible depression, and he just can¡¦t feel totally good nowhere. Every day of work was a real torture for him, specially because he had to deal with the public (he was a salesmen) and always had to carry a big smile on his face. he was considered, as by his colleagues, as by the boss, as by the public, as one of the best salesmen they have ever met! Friendly, caring, giving, a very hard worker, always trying to please everysingle person who walked on the shop.
But he simply couldn¡¦t handle the pain he sometimes caused me, and his separation from his 2 year old child since he hasn¡¦t saw since his 6 months of age, just because his ex (a cancer woman¡K) decided to get herself preagnant just to make him marry her (he had talked about breaking up the relationship recently) ¡V and that didn¡¦t make him love her more, and he split with her, although he decided to be a real gentleman by being on her side during the pregnancy and trying one last time with her¡K. But he couldn¡¦t start loving her and broke up, and she simply tries to manipulate him, telling him he will only see his son if he comes back to her!

There are only some of the reasons why he¡¦s in this situation¡K

He has NEVER beat up on anyone, this is the first time. He¡¦s a very gentle and pacifist person, he never gets angry in ANY situation, when in those daytime routines (cinema cues, traffic jams, insults,etc.)

You say ¡§What kind of odds are there that he will ever renounce violence as a way of dealing with his feelings??

He is already renouncing his ways of dealing with anger. He has done a lot. And will continue doing.

¡§You¡¦re just looking for validation here, and I don¡¦t think there will be one person replying to this thread who will advise, ¡§yes, stay, you can make a miracle happen and things will get better.¡¨
I never came to this forum wanting some sort of validation. I never asked for any help in this matter. I¡¦ve decided what to do already. I appreciate all of your help nevertheless, you sound very caring and friendly people, and i¡¦m loving all this sharing of experiences, it makes me learn a lot about many things. Of course I¡¦m not expecting no one to say that to me!

Please post your charts or give birth stats, by all means. The analysis-experts here will probably be able to give you the danger signs in your synastry. Would that be enough for you to leave this relationship? Somehow I doubt it.

It isn¡¦t astrology that¡¦s going to make me change my life¡¦s decisions. I¡¦m just looking for some more understanding of his abilities, that¡¦s all.

Thanks a lot for your sincere reply. ****

Iqhunk ¡V

Thanks for your kind reply.
You say ¡§could it mean you are more in love with YOUR IDEALISM and flase notion of sacrifice than with him.¡¨
I agree in part with you. I¡¦m a very passionate person, everything I do, I¡¦d give my heart by doing it. So I guess I¡¦m truly in love with my idealism, you¡¦re right. But I¡¦m also in love with my angel, I¡¦ve met some other people in my life, I hear lots of supposed life stories who weren¡¦t love after all, and we¡¦ve been through a lot of things (I¡¦m not talking only about the aggressions), which could only be tolerated if this was a real true, genuine love, at least in my opinion.
What if you have a child. What if he does not change sufficiently and whacks your baby child. Whose fault will it be?
Of course it would be he who was doing the harm, not me. Believe me, he would never EVER hurt a child, he¡¦d kill himself before he could do that. The only person whom he has hit was me, and in special circunstances, when he is confronted with certain issues.

Zeldatiara ¡V

You say

quote:
________________________________________
maybe you don't consider this a real argument
¡§Don't feel you need to defend yourself to me. I offered my opinion and experience. I meant everything I wrote, and I also know each person much take their own path in life. I don't perceive you as being "wrong" and I "right," so don't feel you have to provide reasons or arguments. I'm not judging you, I'm just concerned. Thanks for reading what I posted & responding.¡¨
I assure you I don¡¦t feel the need to defend myself from you or any other person. ƒº the only reason why I said that was because I¡¦m used to having argues with self-named intelligent persons who say that, that the ideas or reasons why the other person says what she says, aren¡¦t in fact real arguments. So I guess I have that in my mind and sometimes say it.

Thanks for the concern,really. I¡¦m enjoying all of this debate, believe me.

You¡¦re welcome, thanks to you too.****