posted April 22, 2006 12:42 PM              

There is a book about a little black girl who has a doll with blue eyes. She wants blue eyes to be beautiful. (and I used to have a boyfriend who would stare at tall blonde women when we went out.) That is comparing apples to oranges. It's easy to fall into this trap, try making friends with people who are more like you for now.

I never look at other women who are attention getters because of their looks, instead I pay attention to interesting ones, it works for me. After all life is short, why not reward those who have respect for themselves based on something other than looks, and learn from those women. There are always pretty women around to compare to.

In any case when you feel blue or down about yourself, NEVER GIVE UP, you don't know what will happen tomorrow.

posted April 22, 2006 12:50 PM              

Are you looking for validation for the way you look? Because we’re often our worst critics ( or I am anyway ). You need to look within to find that kind of validation - I know, I know it’s so cliche it’s sickening

posted April 23, 2006 05:02 PM              

Water Nymph and Sthenri have said it ..

but in addition ..
re :
*I know everyone has to find their self-esteem, but are there aspects and/or placements that make it more difficult?*

I think Saturn in harsh aspect to Venus could take top place .. ditto Saturn to the Sun .. and also i believe that Neptune aspects would have some say on the topic .. as it were ..

Saturn in your chart is exactly square to the midpoint between your aries Venus and pisces Node placements ..
the following aspects in your chart are the closest to 'exact' by orb .. i.e. within one degree .. so will be strongest in effect ..

Neptune is square to Venus at 0.5
Pluto square Moon at 0.3
Chiron square Node at 0.03

* Or even any idea of where to look for why this may be the case for some people more than others *
Neptune / Venus ..

there may be some clues / answers .. here ..
btw: Neptune in the chart can often connect with feeling depressed ..

** Venus-Neptune Aspects **
.. .. Dreams, Nightmares, and Visions of Love .. ..
* http://www.astrodatabank.com/AS/ASVenusNeptune.htm *

btw: .. i'm aiming to type out some text regarding Saturn and Venus in the natal and post it ..
will drop a link here when i'm done ...

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

posted April 25, 2006 04:40 AM              

I've sought astrological answers to the same problem. I suffer envy heaps.

Look for difficult planet interactions with your SUN (the source of your ego, esteem, value). Do you have Saturn or Pluto in difficult aspects to your sun? It would definitely signify your issues.

Good luck to you. I feel for you. Envy is serious and extremely tough to deal with.

posted April 25, 2006 07:19 AM              

quote:

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It's an I can't believe someone like you wants a loser like me charm.

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quote:

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(If you have a Venus-Neptune aspect, perhaps this doesn't describe you, just the characters you tangle with repeatedly, romantically and otherwise.)

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quote:

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It's a when my record goes platinum, I'll buy you the Moon charm. It's a we're soul mates, and we'll be together forever as soon as I straighten this out charm. It's a you know I never mean to hurt you, I just can't help myself charm. It's a forgive me this time and I'll never do it again charm.

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posted April 25, 2006 09:14 AM              

*water.nymph.*
**Paul McCartney has a Venus-Neptune aspect, and he had a lovely marriage. So maybe there is hope**
.. sure there's hope .. its' a matter of being able to remove the tinted lenses and see reality .. but keep the compassion and use it wisely .. .. something like that .. i'm currently typing up a book chapter (sat/venus) .. .. but in the short i can relate to what 'illusions' writes about .. i had somewhat of a self esteem thing as a teenager .. bit complicated to write about .. i mean it was all so long ago .. much water has passed under the bridge .. ..

my similar chart aspects are .. Venus (9th) opposite Neptune and Saturn (N and S being conjunct in 3rd h.) .. Venus square to Uranus in 1st and Chiron in 7th .. all in Cardinal Signs ... one of each element .. multiple flavours

*Illusions* .. i don't know if this helps .. .. but imagine if Jamie were to loose her 'image' of barbi doll model .. i.e. if her looks were damaged permanently .. then what ?? .. your left with the Person .. what i'm saying is try to see the Person .. not the 'image' .. .. Venus/Neptune can lead to 'idealising' other ppl .. putting them on some sort of a pedestal .. ..
*What about comparing yourself to others?*
it's pointless .. you can only be Yourself .. live up to your Own values .. not someone elses ...

*For example, my friend Jamie is gorgeous and everyone says so. Even my mom said she looks like a Barbie doll.*
personaly i wouldn't take a blind bit of notice what other people say in that regard .. barbie dolls are Bland .. are you sure all those other people are endowed with good taste ?? .. .. my folks used to compare ppl to one another .. and me to other more studious / successful at sport type kids .. .. it used to sicken me .. it made my folks look petty and superficial in my eyes ..

posted April 25, 2006 09:20 AM              

Luckily since I talk to my friends about this, they either don't hang out with me as much or we get over it.

The thing about hanging out with people who attract attention just for their looks is a bad idea for men and women-it's hard to rationalize the attention and keeps one from focusing on real issues.

I am not envious just busy but I can't be a friend to someone if I feel bad, or angry.

posted April 25, 2006 10:01 AM              

Girls who look 6.5 to 7.9/10 largely end up in happy marriages/relationships provided their self esteem is intact and they never seek a loser just for the sake of a relationship.

Girls who think they look less than 6.5/10 are cheating themselves. There are always a hundred million single men in the world who would consider a girl who looks 5/10 or less to her "friends" to be 7+ to them. That is the power of human subjectivity and the law of probability.

The beauty effect in any case is only for thr first 2-3 months of the relationship. After that, it is only the mental excitement provided by each other's company and intellectual compatibility that matters.

"I am Ok" means you are ok.

posted April 25, 2006 11:35 AM              

Makes sense really.

posted April 25, 2006 12:30 PM              

*Happy Dragon, are you male or female?* http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/005805-4.html

posted April 25, 2006 12:49 PM              

1) BEFORE awareness of past lives and multidimensionality of the soul:

Looks were not an issue to me because I was fair skinned in a city where over 95% of the men were darker. In my state white skinned folk are considered handsome. So my self esteem would depend more on academics. As Swerve rightly said, age 0 to 6, my family would insist that academic success equals true success. Then after the teenage years and rebellious period, the "in" thing for men of the time became the issue of self esteem. Shallow stuff like a certain model of motorbike or car. Then in early twenties it got ugly. It got to the "how much cash is made" thing as a mark of self esteem. Looks absolutely did not matter. Plain cash. The man who worked for Microsoft earning 100,000$ per annum as a foreign software worker was the king.
Lesser the salary, lower the self esteem.

Human values, honesty, ehtics, hardwork, virtue, charity ... all went for a toss.

The above was the case with almost all classmates, male aquaintances and colleagues.

2: POST Awareness
Self Esteem is always high. It does not matter what I earn or do right ot wrong. The knowledge of past lives and infinite future chances led to a state where high self esteem started growing on me, and acquiring knowledge became second nature. External situations just did not matter except for temporary periods. The danger was pride but knowledge quickly extinguishes it. And I learnt that developing true self esteem does attract the good things steadily for which others hold a false notion of self esteem!

posted April 25, 2006 09:18 PM              

I think we(women)are definitely under tremendous pressure to look a certain way and to be competitive with one another.

posted April 26, 2006 09:42 PM              

*I think we(women)are definitely under tremendous pressure to look a certain way and to be competitive with one another.* .. it certainly looks that way .. media publication empires have been built on it .. .. probably a bit off topic .. but for some reason i think about a disturbing tv docu. on not too long ago .. set in a coastal african state .. about women who are suffering serious illnesses later in life due to the fact that they were literaly force fed from day one on high fat milk ( not sure what type .. cows milk .. goats .. or what .. could have been a milk based food mixture ) .. the reason being that 'fatter' equals 'beauty and marriage potential' .. .. many of the women shown could not walk .. ..

Would there be others besides Saturn/Venus and Saturn/Sun? ..
as far as Saturn is concerned .. i shall probably type out the other personal planet chapters .. they are slightly shorter than the venus one ... ... it's said that all the outer planets can be self destructive in one way or another .. off hand i'd think Saturn / Neptune / Chiron and Pluto could all qualify one way or another .. i don't know as there would be a ton of factors that could contribute to feelings of low self esteem .. within and without the astrological theories ..

* * * * * * * * * * *

Illusions ..

* because now that pedestal has just totally toppled over. *
i see that as a good thing although it doesnt feel good when that happens .. i think it was explained to me thus .. .. re venus / neptune .. that i might see qualities in a person that don't exist .. and miss out on seeing qualities that another person might have .. .. i do believe though .. he was talking about romantic attractions ..

.. could say i've come across the venus saturn / neptune / uranus effects with regards to my choice of musical instrument and approach to playing it .. .. even there i've made purchases based on what i'd imagine the instrument would sound like/play like .. (neptune) that includes hearing what i wanted whilst testing it out in a shop .. .. only to find the reality somewhat different on closer inspection when at home .. on the other hand i'll use my imagination to change it into something that sounds and plays like i imagined in the first place ..

.. which makes me wonder if you delve into any art forms ..

envy ? .. i guess maybe as a teen .. if i were to equate something the other guys had .. that i didn't .. that enabled them to be popular with the gals .. or to be popular in a general sense .. but that soon passed .. i think the quick transition period came when i left home .. all of a sudden my popularity with the girls increased albeit slightly .. probably due to my new status as a runaway rebel of some nature .. .. couple of months after that i was living in a totaly foreign culture and doing military service .. and i was seeing things and people from a much different perspective .. and learning lots about living and surviving with other people .. don't ever remember feeling 'envious' ever again .. one can always find a flaw in the object of envy .. .. and .. don't think that all folks who seem to have 'everything' are actually happy inside .. or the recipeints of a love that .. maybe you think they get because they have 'something' that you don't ..

not quite sure if that says what i wanted it to .. but am too sleepy to consider any alternatives ..

re ..
*and I can't seem to pull myself out...*
i shall check whats going on in your chart at moment .. may be a temp. state of affairs ..