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Author Topic:   Obsessions with Scorpio, with Pluto and with other planetary influences
D for Defiant
Knowflake

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posted September 21, 2006 05:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D for Defiant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This thread is not even specifically about the Sun Scorpios. Rather, this is more like about people who have other Scorpio influences in their charts, other than Sun, or those who have significant Pluto placements.

Examples:

- I have Scorpio rising, so I...

- I have 1st house Pluto, so I...

- (This one is not from here) I think my Mercury's in Scorpio. Therefore I could be quite ruthless when I speak to anybody if I want to!

I don't have issues with the sign Scorpio.

What's such a big deal about the sign Scorpio and about Pluto???

I've been trying to figure this out- and I guess maybe many people are either afraid of the sign Scorpio, or idealize the sign Scorpio, or Pluto. Many of us are so blind, and many of us are intrigued by and obsessed with the connection between the sign Scorpio and revenge. Lots of people feel that it's powerful, that it's so wicked. Many of us are also bewildered by and still- obsessed with the symbolic definitions of Pluto- life and death, transformation...(correct me if I'm wrong, I may not be accurate) and the majority of us tend to make a big fuss about either the sign Scorpio, no matter which planet we're thinking/talking about, and as well as a big fuss about Pluto- especially 1th house Pluto.

Running around telling everybody "I have 1st house Pluto, so I..." does not sound like a "typical" Plutonian thing to do, does it? Don't we tend to associate the sign Scorpio and Pluto with secretiveness, confidentiality, mystery...?

So why do a lot of people run around telling others, at least every once in a while, that they have their Ascendant, or any other planet but their Sun, is in Scorpio etc etc etc, or that their Pluto is in their 1st house? Doesn't this feel like showing off?

Or, apart from the sign Scorpio and Pluto, many of us also tend to say "My certain planet is in certain sign, so I..."

Isn't astrology meant to be about "Free Will"? Isn't astrology about helping us to change, to re-write our own natal charts? Like Linda mentioned at the end of Sun Signs- those [Catholic...I'm trying not to emphasize this] saints' lives didn't fit their own charts at all, because they successfully used their Free Will, or whatever you might prefer to call it if you are a non-believer of Free Will...to change their lives for better? Never to sucuumb, never to give in, never to use astrology as a self-justified excuse for one's own vices or virtues?

But what I've seen is most people have been doing exactly the opposite. I admit, I make the mistakes, too, but I'm trying not to do so again.

Why we tend to submit to what's in our nativities rather than exercising our will power is something intriguing. Something to behold, to explore.

------------------
May not be able to get back to you...appreciate your say nevertheless...D

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Ling
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posted September 21, 2006 05:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have pluto in 1st house...
i do have the tendency to write an online blog only to later delete it...
what's wrong with pluto in first house?

------------------
Good is in the will

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23
Knowflake

Posts: 250
From: The Strand
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 21, 2006 06:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thats why I determine my life and then look back at it with astrology. I never look at astrology to determine when to plant a tree or when to travel. OK, I look at the occasional transit but I don't plan my life again them, I'm just aware of what influences there are.

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Lauren
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posted September 21, 2006 08:20 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I actually think, people who show off with Pluto haven't been stung yet because if they had, they probably wouldn't be thinking in those terms.

Pluto is very serious. I don't like or dislike it, but there's nothing *cool* about it.. it has a very serious vibe. There's no fear there. There never was because I experienced Pluto full force before knowing anything about astrology.. and found out later how plutonian my experiences were. Before my experiences I wasn’t afraid because I had no idea there was such thing as a natal chart or transits or synastry. Now, after my experiences, even though I am aware.. I have to say, it’s almost impossible to be afraid of Pluto once you’ve seriously been stung… Once you’ve gotten to this stage and gone through it and came out breathing, it doesn’t feel scary.. just fated and *ok*


quote:
Running around telling everybody "I have 1st house Pluto, so I..." does not sound like a "typical" Pluto thing to do, does it? Don't we tend to associate the sign Scorpio and Pluto with secretiveness, confidentiality, mystery...?

These are exactly my thoughts when I say, they haven’t been stung yet. I couldn’t type “wow I have this Pluto so I’m cool” even if I tried.. because I know what Pluto is capable off.


While I’m not scared of Pluto.. I also definitely don’t idealise it. I do have a problem with the planet lol, and that is Unfairness.. In my life, Pluto was very unfair. I see Plutonian justice as very subjective, very much so unlike the objective justice you would associate astrologically with Libra. Plutonian justice is based on what Pluto believes is *right* for PLUTO, period.. Other people’s feelings and thoughts aside.. Pluto stands for a strictly personal moral code and this planet will make sure (in natal/synastry/by transit) that you either live by the code or you die by the code. Very black and white, no grey area. Many of us don’t even know there is a code, which makes it even more unfair to be punished for infringing a code you didn’t know existed.

But the first rule in the Plutonian code is - tsk tsk “you should’ve known there was a Plutonian code”

Now the good thing about Pluto is that once you realise there is nothing you can do about what you see as injustice.. and you learn to accept things as they are and go through them, it makes you a better person in the end. If you’ve seen V for Vendeta.. what he does to Natalie Portman in the middle of the movie to ‘help her’ shed her fears.. is soooooooo very Plutonian. Actually, come to think of it, that’s the most Plutonian thing I’ve seen in a movie.

That movie is a perfect example of what Pluto does. It puts you through hell on purpose, but whether you like it or not, its for *the better*.. this doesn’t necessarily mean it’s - for your own good -… but in the scheme of things if Pluto messes with you, be sure that there is an ultimate positive purpose for it.

:edit:

to answer this question

quote:
Isn't astrology meant to be about "Free Will"?

In my opinion, YES 100%.. This is why I always find it interesting that people get upset when they find out they don't have something in their chart.. For instance if someone thought they had a Scorpio Ascendant and find out it is actually Sag.. I mean at the end of the day you are who you are.. If the interpretation for Scorpio Asc suited then you probably have Scorpio traits regardless. People seem to forget that they should be scrutinising astrology.. Astrology shouldn't be scrutinising them..
Astrology is a tool like any other.. and most astrologers agree that even having someone's entire chart does not give you their entire personality and every way the personality could've panned out. It's up to you to discern what makes sense to you and what doesn't in your chart.. what is true for who you are and what isn't.. it's the same with Numerology or Psychology.. It is not up to your chart (an inanimate object) to scrutinise you as a person.. "oh well you have a Leo sun so I'm sorry but you can't be shy".. What's the use if the person *is* shy? lol Not much point saying they aren’t.. It won’t change the reality. It only changes perspective.

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted September 25, 2006 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The way my Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Scorpio and Moon quincunx Pluto in 1st Scorpio as well as Sun contraparallel Pluto manifested in my life is intensity,transformation,regeneration..especially pyschological,trauma near death experience(being with my mom when she got shot),verbal and physical abuse by my mother,what can't kill you will make you stronger,willpower,experiences of betrayal,fearing betrayal,psychological problems(linked to learning disabilities and abusive homelife),psychiatric misdiagnoses,distrust of people including especially psychiatrists and my mom,never knowing my father,power issues with my parents,being involved with women who have history of abuse including even sexual abuse,having psychological insight into matters,being a psychologically oriented astrologer,having a morbid sense of humor,loving horror flicks,confronting "inner demons",interest in depth psychology,participating in psychoanalysis,fear of rejection because of past,being secretive and private... especially about my special ed history and being abused by my mother.


That can give you an idea of what Scorpio and Pluto is like.


The Kuiper belt has to do with intensity,transformation,rebirth,

I have very strong kuiper belt energies that don't involve Pluto including Sun-Ixion cazimi,Moon trine Ixion,Moon trine/contrapararallel Quaoar,Moon square Varuna,El61 square Midheaven,Sun contraparallel Orcus as well as Venus trine Orcus,Mercury square FY9,also.......Sun quincunx Eris in 3D aspect and Sun quincunx Varuna in 3D aspect...Moon sextile Sedna

My Eris is in 8th house sextile Midheaven,biquintile Mercury...also semisquare Moon in 3D aspect.

My Sun conj True Black Moon Lillith,Mercury parallel true black,Venus parallel black moon are intense too.

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Scarlet
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posted September 25, 2006 05:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
D,

I believe once you understand your tendencies, talents, blind spots, and potentials through the help of astrology (numerology...) this serves to cool down your compulsiveness (of all kind) and enables you to self-regulate and to exert free-will in a more focused and constructive way.

Astrology is a tool, like psychology, sociology, maths...
It's true that one can tend towards paranoia/desire of control and power if there's a strong pluto, scor or 8th house theme in their chart, and you can be aware of this tendency and try to regulate it, and build upon the strengths...

or if you are not aware of it, you can't really exert free-will, because when you think you are doing so, it's just your compulsions acting/reacting again...

Higher self-knowledge leads to stronger free-will.

Answering more your question, I do find that people overuse their placements to give excuses or to procrastinate from making the adecuate changes (for the life/goals they want).

I'm scorpio rising, with mars in gem in the 8th and pluto in libra in the 11th, and I do tend to have heavy plutonic forces working overtime in those houses. The rulers are in talkative-social signs and whoever knows me, or reads my posts can see I relate and talk a lot! Specially about emotions and deep stuff. I don't like to beat around the bush too.

I do, however, try to remind myself of my will to control in those areas. It's hard because the compulsion is there, but it's doable, with awareness, discipline and respect towards others' individuality.

My Gemini moon is also in the 8th, so again, intense stuff going on.

I personally don't show off with my scorpio/plutonic side, after years of avoiding scor/plutonic people because I found them too heavy, i've finally come to terms with that obsessive part of me, and I'm using it for self-growth. About showing people these side of me: in the seminars I attend I often show ask teachers to use my chart (obsession with self-knowledge, a very scorpionic destiny) and some are so scared, you can see the faces and one even told me "you mind if I give you advice on this, hope you don't mind, your rising sign might not like me saying...". It was the official confirmation of how people see scorpio rising. I'm not so bad...hehe

I'm with Lauren, there's nothing cool of pluto, it's so damn intense and deep, and muddy...I think I'm cool, but because I' coming into terms of accepting and liking myself not because of the heavy-duty-not so much light fun-pluto stuff.

Using the stuff to imply I'm cool? Even some people find the scorpio side to dislike us (I used to be one of them)...

I may say, although I kindly envy the lightness of some people (and charts) I'm glad I have all these transformation theme going on, because it's helping blossom and heal myself through life. With my parents' relationship, I needed these heavy stuff anyways.

To end, I also find intriguing how many would rather keep on doing the same old stuff/patterns and saying "I...so...".

Wow Glaucus...

Now that I'm among plutonic fellows, please answer this question when you can (sooner that later please). I'm way too talkative, and I share I lot (moon and mars in gemini), like I'm always giving away great ideas (specially business, money, self-healing ones...) and would like to be more secretive.

I'm starting a self-imposed treatment of keeping something important to myself every day.

Please tell me horror stories so I keep my mouth shot more often. Odd query, yes, but so needed. Guess I should share less in this forum? ahhhh
Angie
today I'm so intense

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thedividedsky
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posted September 25, 2006 07:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very interesting topic here. To have scorpio in the first house, and be self obsessed with the inner working of scorpio on your own psyche, yes sounds about right. It's like a never ending book, something strange always around the corner. I can't help it!


Scarlet, interesting, I am also a scorpio rising, gemini/mars in the 8th, pluto/libra in the 11th. What else have you got? Hee hee. My moon is in taurus however, in the 7th.

As far as Scorpio, yes, I am secretly comfortable with this in my chart. And yes, I have been stung. And stung again. I am learning to live and be alive!

I am a virgo sun/mercury/venus, taurus moon, so let me tell you, I think having scorpio rising in my chart has allowed me to "go into my dark place" (as a co-worker of mine as termed it), FEEL the underside of life, fall, and then rise from ashes (over and over again)

I believe in my FEELINGS, they are deep and VERY complicated. I have come a long way since I was a child who had to hide a red face and tearing up eyes in school by opening the desk top. It's been a real emotional roller coaster sometimes...but boy it's taugh me a lot.

And with all the Earth signs, I needed something a little *INTERESTING*.....a *CHALLENGE*

Okay, so I am being positive. I'm glad you caught me on a good day.

so, to answer you question, scarlet, do I say things I should keep to myself....? Usually, I keep to myself things that I should TELL SOMEONE, and I tell someone the things i should KEEP INSIDE. SO, um, yeah.

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tuxedo meow
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From: gulf coast texas
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posted September 25, 2006 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tuxedo meow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa!
Meow, well, i am always trying to get everyone to look at or delve into 12th House Pluto particularly. With your comment, dear one, I now feel like the girl at the play yard showing off her knickers! LOL!
I need to identify, affirm, and release damaging or un-needed elements to further refine for the benefit of all.

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william
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posted September 25, 2006 08:21 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
one major asrological difference in sc orpio abd the other signs is that it has three symbols.the scorpion,the eagle and the angel or the dove.though this may seem like semantics,it is very important as this indicates the scorpios have the longest range of evolution of th4e personality.fron the most malicious,vain and ignorant[scorpions are said to strike themselves if cornered] to thew most spiritual and sublime.
along the way they can learn that not only is dominance of their environment important[eagle] but taht love of all mankind is paramount.the personalities envolved in this ascent are the most varied and complex in astrology.with a scorpio one can never know what your going to get.from best to wordt in man
william

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Scorpionic Web
Knowflake

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From: Philadelphia
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 25, 2006 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scorpionic Web     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
William-

"Ignorant" should never be associated with Scorpio. You're way off, with that one.

Scorpios are often dismissive, but that is something completely different.

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MUSTANG
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posted September 26, 2006 01:34 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I disagree,ANY sign can be ignorant, including scorp's.

I'm secretive, probing, strong willed and intense, but I don't have any scorp or heavy pluto...How can I have these plutonian features and not be Plutonian? I don't get that at all.

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wilsontc
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posted September 26, 2006 02:14 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
william,

I would add to your list "snake" as being one of the "scorpio types".

Snakily,

Tim

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Scorpionic Web
Knowflake

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From: Philadelphia
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posted September 26, 2006 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scorpionic Web     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mustang-

You keep trying to cut Scorps down by comparing yourself. But you have to be a Scorpio to understand one. I can't fathom the Aqua mentality, but there are reasons for why astrologers make these claims about each sign.

"Scorpio is the only sign that never produces a shallow person" -Grant Lewi

So, at the times we seem ignorant, its only an act to fit in.

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Lauren
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posted September 26, 2006 08:26 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
is being egotistical a form of being shallow?

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Scorpionic Web
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From: Philadelphia
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posted September 26, 2006 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scorpionic Web     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, its either self-assurance or simply a defense, depending upon the conflict at hand.

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Glaucus
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posted September 26, 2006 08:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MUSTANG,

You might have significant Pluto aspects. They could also be in the declinations which are hidden aspects.

also the kuiper belt objects(Pluto is one of them) can have those traits

May I see your chart?

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sue g
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posted September 26, 2006 08:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is nothing shallow about the sign of Scorpio...I have 5 planets in her and shallow doesnt even get close....deep and intense do.

As for ignorant...haha...I am yet to meet an ignorant Scorpio. They are normally incredibly intuitive and always one step ahead. You know as in "you would have get up very early in the morning to pull the wool over my eyes" type thing.

How are you SW? Are you still thinking of coming to Ireland?

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Lauren
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posted September 26, 2006 08:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Self assurance is self esteem..

To me 'egotistical' implies an overload of self glorification or pride.. I find it hard to see that as deep, as opposed to shallow.

I’ve never associated ego with Scorpio, as a sign.. but I think I’ve just seen it in a Scorp.. that's why generalizations don't work for me.

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mysticaldream
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posted September 26, 2006 08:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a lot of Pluto in my chart.

I have a Scorpio Ascendant.
I have Venus, Neptune, Ceres, Pallas and Juno all in Scorpio. My part of fortune is also in Scorpio.

My Pluto aspects:

conjunct Mars
conjunct Jupiter
conjunct Uranus

sextile Venus
sextile Neptune
sextile Ascendant
sextile Juno

opposite chiron

quintile vertex

quincunx pholus

(Plus two aspects that I don't recognize < P. of fortune and Pallas; I forgot what < stands for).

I think Glaucus described it best or I could relate to his description best:

"intensity,transformation,regeneration..especially pyschological,trauma,what can't kill you will make you stronger,willpower,experiences of betrayal,fearing betrayal,power issues with my parents,being involved with men (I changed his wording from women) who have history of abuse including even sexual abuse,having psychological insight into matters,confronting "inner demons",interest in depth psychology, being secretive and private... "

I picked his words that also relate to myself, and I couldn't have said it better.

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Scorpionic Web
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Philadelphia
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 26, 2006 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scorpionic Web     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lauren-

Egotism in Scorpios is a result of people not living up to a Scorp's standards. We're always let down by people, and therefore, are often convinced that we have a better constitution.

Sue-

I'm good. Bored with classes. My ex-Sag is moving away, and I'm a bit bummed out. She isn't the woman for me, but I still love her and don't want to see her go. But I guess after dumping her I can't expect her to stay around. How've you been, Sue?

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Scorpionic Web
Knowflake

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From: Philadelphia
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posted September 26, 2006 08:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scorpionic Web     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lauren-

Just because I view most people as subpar doesn't mean that I think I'm above par.

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sue g
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posted September 26, 2006 08:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
dp

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sue g
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posted September 26, 2006 08:59 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aaah sorry to hear that SW....hope you will be okay ? I find it very hard to let go at times, tis one of my curses. I never went with a Saggi, it never seemed a very good match to me?

I aint too bad you know.....up and down, you know how it is?

If you need to chat I think you have my email address?

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Lialei
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posted September 26, 2006 10:27 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A form of ignorance would be to fixedly refrain from accepting alternate perspectives. So, because of Scorpio's persuasion to definate, stark, conclusionary perception, this kind of ignorance might be more challenging for Scorpion/Plutionian influenced people to transcend. Not impossible because their desire to probe might incline them to inwardly consider a myriad of ideas, which naturally would heighten possibilites...just challenging.
Challenging to actually embrace alternate philosophies into their already established code.

There are different ways of looking at ignorance. Ignorance doesn't necessarily mean stupidity or naivete...another meaning is limitation from broader perspective which would encourage growth.

Speaking of being disappointed by people...
this established code of theirs projects a controlling expectation of people. Depends on who is willing or not willing to be a Plutonian Puppet.
A lot of people step right in line and so willingly tip-toe around their moods. They seem to learn early on in life that they can manipulate whatever they want from people this way.

Not making generalizations, all people are unique, just speaking in basic terms here. Actually I know some Piscean/Aquarian influenced Scorpios that in many ways entirely defy the more typical Scorpio characteristics. I've just been surrounded by Scorpion influenced people most of my life (brother, daughter, Dad, husband, friends, etc...) and have observed often enough the way people jump at their command, and bend to please when they pull their angry silent treatments, etc.
It's never worked on me.

The closest would be my Dad, only because when I was a little girl, I'd feel hurt by his silent disapproval. But even then I intuited the manipulation. It seems the results are successful for them often enough.

Lauren, interesting thoughts.

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sue g
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posted September 26, 2006 10:41 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quote:

<<<Speaking of being disappointed by people...
this established code of theirs projects a controlling expectation of people. Depends on who is willing or not willing to be a Plutonian Puppet.
A lot of people step right in line and so willingly tip-toe around their moods. They seem to learn early on in life that they can manipulate whatever they want from people this way>>>>

Wow Lia

You must have met some mean Scorpios in yer time....you seem to take quite a dim view of them....

Apart from one or two, I have never had a problem with them generally speaking. Maybe that is because I know where they are coming from. In fact I view the majority of them as loyal, strong and kind....dont really have a problem with the maniupulative thing you speak of....

But then again I have Mercury in Scorpio, so I dare to say I would be somewhat manipulative myself....

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