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Author Topic:   When synastry is wrong
BlueEyes24
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posted September 22, 2006 10:34 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alright; here's a question for ya: How many of you have been in an AMAZING relationship (past or present)...when your synastry isn't too good or is just "okay"?

OR....have you been in a relationship that was disasterous, when the synastry was amazing? I know the opinions will differ here, since everyone has their own opinions on which synastry aspects are "good" or "bad".

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darkdreamer
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posted September 22, 2006 11:09 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I have had this experience, yes. But I wouldn`t call the synastry "wrong". I rather think I am missing something important.

But anyway, yes, there has been a guy, I should have been passionately in love with.
His sun was conjunct my Venus and square my Pluto; His moon was conjunct my Uranus (natally I have an aquarius moon and he has Moon conjunct Uranus); His Venus was in sagittarius, my Mars was in sagittarius, even though not in conjunct; His Venus was in a wide conjunction to my Neptune and NN; My Venus was - closely- squaring his Pluto (natally he had a Scorpio-Mars and I have Venus square Pluto; so we should have liked that aspect); our ascendents were conjunct each other; we had a double whammy of Neptune conjunct Ascendant; My mars was conjunct his Ascendant; we had sun, mercury and Venus in each other`s 1st house. My Venus-Mars-mp was conjunct his Mercury; his Venus-Mars-mp was conjunct my AC and Mars; there were also Venus-Pluto and Sun-Moon-mp and some more.
So, there were plenty of nice connections, but even though I really liked him and had a lot of warm feelings for him, I never felt really attracted to him. At least not as passionately as I should have been, according to our synastry.
Well, maybe it`s partly the fault of our ascendants; maybe I sense too much familiarity.
Another thing that was a clear "turn off" is that he looks a lot like my father in his younger years and my brother, as he is looking now.

DD

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Glaucus
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posted September 22, 2006 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Did you have any hard Saturn aspects in the synastry?

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BlueEyes24
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posted September 22, 2006 11:34 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's interesting, I also had a venus conjunct sun in the synastry with an ex, and the relationship was horrible. (I was the sun person) .... BUT, we did have a mars/saturn conjunction in the synastry- that might have something to do with it.

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darkdreamer
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posted September 22, 2006 11:36 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
His Saturn was trine my Moon (no hard aspect), but actually my Saturn was exactly opposite his Jupiter-NN-conjunction.
And there were some contraparallels involving Saturn: My Saturn was contraparallel his Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and AC; his Saturn was contraparallel my Mars and AC. But we had the same aspects natally, so I thought it wouldn`t do such a harm.
Interestingly we had his Venus parallel my Mars (9 minutes of arc) and both our Saturns were contraparallel to Venus and Mars.
Does this suffice to explain?

DD

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Belage
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posted September 22, 2006 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DarkDreamer, I don't see anything in your synastry with this guy that indicates great passion.

His sun was squaring your Pluto. Not good. Power struggles.

Your venus and Mars were in the same sign, but not conjunct, so that doesn't help a lot.

Venus and Neptune had a wide conjunction. Wide orb conjunction can be deceiving. They hint at great possibilities, but never deliver.

Your Venus squaring his Pluto. Not good.

Ascendants conjuncts each other. That feels more like a friendship than a romantic relationship.

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darkdreamer
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posted September 22, 2006 11:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Belage,

what would you want to see in a synastry?


DD

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Belage
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posted September 22, 2006 12:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would look for positive aspects (i.e. conjunctions, sextiles, trines, quincunxes) between Venus and Mars, Venus and moon, Venus and Jupiter, Venus and Pluto, and especially Venus and Neptune. Trines and sextiles of Venus and Saturn could work to make a relationship stable. I check respective Chiron. If there are easy aspects between Chiron and Mars, Chiron and Venus, Chiron and Jupiter, Chiron and Neptune, things look good.

When ascendants are opposite each other, it also indicate relationship potential, because each person's ascendant falls in the other's house of relationship/marriage.

I also look to see what planets fall in the other's 7th and 8th house. Planets there usually indicate marriage possibilities and sharing of money and sex. For instance, my Jupiter falls in my DH's 7th house, and his Jupiter falls in my 7th house. Double Yummy!! Planets that fall in the other's 5th house indicate love affairs (not necessarily marriage) and also possibilities of children.

Of course, in most synastries, you have a blend of the good and the bad. A couple can have wonderful Venus/Mars/Jupiter aspects, while having very challenging Venus/Neptune aspects for instance. You have to see if the good outweights the bad.

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Belage
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posted September 22, 2006 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, and don't forget the ascendant. Planets making positive aspects to the other's ascendant are always a plus. It usually indicates that you like the way the other person looks, their physical appearance. DH's moon is conjunct my ascendant, while my moon is trine his ascendant. I think he is such a hunk, and he finds me pretty, even when I roll out of bed.

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BlueEyes24
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posted September 22, 2006 12:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with ascendant aspects, but what about sun/moon aspects? And planets in the other person's 4th house?

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Belage
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posted September 22, 2006 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BlueEyes, I think Sun/Moon aspects are important too. Many men have moon conjunct their wives sun.

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BlueEyes24
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posted September 22, 2006 12:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I've kinda wondered why that is... I've noticed a lot of times, it's the MAN's MOON that's in aspect to the WOMAN's SUN. My BF's moon is sextile my sun - My moon is conjunct his Ascendant, though.

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triplecancer
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posted September 22, 2006 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for triplecancer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Itīs happened to me. I had good synastry with a guy and the relationship was not good. I had "bad" synastry with another (tons of squares) and the relationship was much better than with the other guy, but it didnīt work out anyway, but we got along great.

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darkdreamer
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posted September 22, 2006 01:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Belage,

thank you for your detailed answer.
Also, the things you observed, were quite accurate.
The Sun-Pluto-square, yes there were power-struggles; they were even more clear, since the transiting Pluto is conjunct my natal Sun. Somehow I came across a lot more Plutonian than Ė usally am, and I cannot say, I like it that way. Well, I realized I could be very selfrighteous and tried to change that, soften that habit. Anyway, one effect of the Sun-Pluto-square was maybe, that I stubbornly tried to make this relationship work, even when I knew it wasn`t the right thing. I just couldn`t let go of him.

Concerning the Venus-Pluto-square: I thought that was a sign of great passion? I read that in so many books, even though I never actually felt it. Venus-trine-Pluto can be very passionate though.

And yes, this feels more like a friendship than a romantic relationship. And it could be such a good friendship, I think, if we didn`t try to make it more than it is.

There are some more aspects of those you mentioned:
WE have a Venus-Moon-sextile, which is nice and gentle, but again no passion.
WE also have a Chiron-Neptune-trine. Probably this also is too soft.

Concerning Ascendants-aspects: his ascendant is conjunct my mars, conjunct my Neptune and exactly sextile my Pluto.
My ascendant is conjunct his neptune and also sextile his Pluto. His Pluto is also sextile my Mars.
And his moon is sextile my Sun. Oh well, reading it all through, it really looks more like a friendship than anything else.

See? I said that the synastry wasn`t wrong; just I failed to inteprete it properly. lol


Blue Eyes,

I think personal planets in the 4th house are important. You can feel very much at home with those people.

DD

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and
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posted September 22, 2006 01:31 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sextile aspects might not be felt because they take more effort from the people involved, its a soft aspect, also planets in your 4th house is good, and important, but it also can make you feel "NEEDY" of that person, which can cause an imbalance in a relationship if they dont share a potent house. Balance is key.

------------------
"WHATEVER the soul longs for, WILL be attained by the spirit"

"Love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation"

-Khalil Gibran

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Glaucus
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posted September 22, 2006 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quincunx is not a positive aspect..except in Magi Astrology which I don't believe in much.
It's an aspect of strain,tension and forces you to make adjustments,revision. It's not the poor health aspect for nothing in medical astrology.

Ascendant conjunct Ascendant can be good relationship aspects. My grandfather's Ascendant conjunct my stepgrandmother's ascendant within 4 degree orb. Married for over 40 yrs including 4 children until my grandfather's suicide in 1998.

his Pisces Moon oppose her Virgo Sun.
My Scorpio Sun conjuncts my Gal's Scorpio Moon-Saturn conjunction with my Pisces Moon trines all those conjuncted planets.

I wouldn't want anybody's Moon nor other planets conjuncting my Moon, that would just square the opposition of my Saturn in Gemini and Jupiter-Neptune in Sagittarius. If it was closely conjunct my Moon,it would oppose my Saturn/Neptune midpoint. That would be aggravating my t-square and my Moon oppose Saturn/Neptune midpoint configuration.

oppositions can be good for attraction aspects. They correlate with 7th house. 7th house is opposite the ascendant. Planets that oppose the ascendant conjunct the descendant.

Oppositions aren't necessarily negative. They are also relationship-oriented aspects. They have to do with need to co-operate and relate to others and have awareness. There is a polarity.

page 22
in THE ASTROLOGY OF HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS by Frances Sakoian and Louis S. Acker,
the opposition influence is stated as inharmonious(relationships). They also state conjunction as variable(expression,action),sextile as good(opportunities),square as adverse,inharmonious(goals and ambitions),and trine as favorable,harmonious(creativity,expansion).

page 88,
COMPARATIVE OPPOSITIONS involving The Sun
These comparative oppositions make for strong and dynamic personal interaction in the affairs ruled by the planet with the Sun opposes and by the houses occupied and ruled by the Sun, Oppositions of the Sun are frequent in marriages and other partnerships because of the natural Seventh House/Libra significance of the opposition aspect. If Venus or the ruler of the 5th house is involved in the opposition,romantic attraction can result. If both natives are mature,they can cooperate effectively and dynamically,but,if they are not, ego conflicts are likely to arise. Neither native should try to dominate the other.


on page 142 in the book,COSMIC MARRIAGE
Reinhold Ebertin says:

You will very often find that the Ascendants in the partner's natal charts lie opposite one another,so that the marriage house of the one partner coincides with the Ascendant of the other, that in a in a certain respect the individual's personality is merged with that of the other,the Thou,his alter ego. But even when this ideal situation is not the case, you will find several instances where in the one partner's chart the upper half and in the other's chart the lower half, or the east in one partner's chart and the west in the other's is more heavily occupied, corresponding more to an ego-conscious(MC),a subconscious(IC),a positive(Ascendant)or negative(Descendant)attitude towards the partner,respectively,and therein lies the complementation. It is of especial significance if for example the one partner's Sun coincides with other's Moon in the house of marriage or on the ascendant,or if one partner has Venus and the other Mars at IC. There are cases where the occupation of the cardinal points of houses play a more significant role than the distribution in the zodiac. In the first example, the woman's chart has Moon,Mercury and Moon's Node close by the MC,the man's Sun and Venus at this location,and this resulted in a very harmonious union.

My gal's Pisces Ascendant oppose my Virgo Ascendant with 16 minutes of arc and contraparallel with 6 minutes of arc. It is interpreted on page 47 as opposites attract. Her Ascendant squares my MC with 2'29 orb,and that is interpreted on page 47 as complementation of physical and spiritual dispositions.


darkdreamer, those Saturn contraparallels involving Venus can indicate limiting,restricting of affection,attraction.
No wonder there was no attraction.


I found out that my Pluto sesquiquadrates my gal's Venus with only 4 minutes of arc in 3D true body aspect.


Another thing too...I wouldn't be romantically,sexually attracted to any woman that looks like my mother. I don't have that Oedipus complex like Anakin Skywalker. hehehehhee....j/k

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pidaua
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posted September 22, 2006 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DarkDreamer,

I picked up on some of the same aspects as Belage..

What troubled me immediately was this:


His sun was conjunct my Venus and square my Pluto;

Sun conjunct Venus is a beautiful aspect, but that square between Sun and Pluto causes major power struggles. I find this to be lessoned if you already have Sun square Pluto in your natal chart.


His moon was conjunct my Uranus (natally I have an aquarius moon and he has Moon conjunct Uranus);

Moon conjunct Uranus can lead to sporadic feelings of love and connection (empathy) and also to lightening fast quarrals / breakups / separations. It can also lead to a feeling of discomfort. In my case, if someone's Uranus conjuncted my moon it would causes immediate problems within my own Natal chart due to my moon / uranus opposition.


His Venus was in sagittarius, my Mars was in sagittarius,

That is a great aspect, but is not indicative of a marriage or love relationship. It adds a "spark". I shared this with a Leo that I dated and even though we dug each other... we just didn't have that love thing going on.

Venus and Neptune are different. When a person's Venus conjuncts another's Neptune there tends to be a bit of idealism in the relationship. One may feel like the saviour the other the sinner. I call it the gossamer veil between what is imagined and what is real. I had my Venus and Sun form a tight conjunction with an ex of mine and it was uncomfortable to stay the least.


Venus square Pluto is another hard aspect to share with someone. Power struggles involving love is noted as well as one person seems to be chasing the other more. The Pluto person holds the power the Venus seems to chase at first, then gives up- prompting Pluto to chase Venus. Again, I have this in my natal chart as well as I have shared it with several exes.

our ascendents were conjunct each other; we had a double whammy of Neptune conjunct Ascendant


I think in your relationship there may have been that vague feeling of recognition but not all was what it seemed on the surface. Neptune played a big role and Neptune dissolves boundaries. That may have felt "dreamy" yet unsettling at the same time.

I have had the relationship that seems perfect with synastry -but in actuality doesn't jive.

The Leo I dated had an Aqua moon whereas I have an Aries moon. His Mars in Sag conjuncted my Sun / Venus and trined my Moon. His Venus in Gemini opposed my Sun / Venus but sextiled my Moon and squared by Pluto - My Venus squared his Pluto as well. Yet... we still had this unsettled quality- inability to really get going.

His Uranus conjuncted mine exactly and set off my T-square between my Moon / Uranus / Mercury.

Now I am married and 100% in love with a Leo Sun / Pisces Moon / Merc Leo / Venus in Virgo / Mars Taurus - Virgo Ascendant.

My Sun / Venus square his Moon. His Sun trines my Moon, Sun and Venus. My Mercury in Capricorn LOVES his Moon, Mars and Ascendant (which also conjuncts mine).

His Venus conjuncts my Pluto...

Still we have some stressful aspects which I believe are necessary in order to bring excitement into a relationship - otherwise it becomes too complacent and the people get bored (in my mind LOL).

~Pidaua

Sag Sun
Aries moon
Mercury- Capricorn
Venus - Sag
Virgo rising.

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Glaucus
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posted September 22, 2006 02:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
darkdreamer,

Is this the same guy that you said that is gay?
I am just curious. If this is the same guy, then that could explain why there is no attraction. You definitely have to take sexual preferences and gender into account. Just because a gay guy's Neptune conjuncts my Venus doesn't mean that I am going to fall in love with him. That definitely didn't happen. He was my roommate/landlord too. He and I shared Pisces Moon aspecting Neptune in 3rd and Virgo Ascendant in common as well believing in metaphysical,very spiritual,former military,and misdiagnosis of Bipolar disorder. He even thought he was ADD which was my diagnoses in 2004. He got some massage therapy training and starting doing massages when I was in massage therapy school. hehehehee

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darkdreamer
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posted September 22, 2006 03:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus,

you said, you wouldn`t want anyone`s planet conjunct your moon, because it would activate stressful configurations in your horoscope. I think, that`s a very important point, and can`t be emphasized enough.
All those books tell you that Moon conjunct Moon is great, but what if your Moon really is afflicted?
I think in my case that was the Sun,Venus,Pluto-stuff. As great as a Sun-Venus conjunction may sound in theory, if Pluto is squaring the whole configuration, it`s not so rosy anymore.

I understand now, that the contraparallel between Saturn and Venus was far more serious than I had expected.

BTW do you look at all possible aspects in synastry (even the minor ones)?
And what is a 3D true body aspect?

But putting astrology aside, I also think the far more important "turn off" for me was the phyiscal resemblance of that guy with my father and brother. The funny thing is I didn`t even notice at first; just when I saw a photo, it suddenly struck me. lol

And no, Glaucus, it was not the gay guy. With the gay guy I would have almost expected some NEptunian aspects, but there are almost none. Instead there`s a lot of Venus, Mars and Pluto stuff, quite challenging, of course.

But to not leave the wrong impression, I didn`t have a love relationship with all those men. They just kind of caught my attention / Interest and I was reflecting on my feelings and if they are shown in the charts. Well, with that guy with the Saturn-contraparallels, I tried to establish some form of a relationship, but as I said, it didn`t work.


Pidaua,

well, I kind of like Moon-Uranus-conjunctions. At least in the beginning. But that is probably because my Moon is in Aquarius.

Concerning sign placements like Venus and Mars in Sagittarius:
Do you think those still have an effect, even though they are not in orb?

Your interpretation of Neptune and Pluto was absolutely right. There was a very dreamy athmosphere at times, and then again also some powerplays underlying.

Speaking of your synastry:
I think it`s always very challenging, if someone`s planets set a T-square off, especially if there are the outer planets involved.

you wrote about your husband, that his sun has many trines to your personal planets. Do you think trines have a strong or at least noticeable effect?


DD

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pidaua
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posted September 22, 2006 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HI DD,

Oh I definitely think that even if a planet makes a loose aspect it still has some affect. Venus conjunct Mars adds that spice- but mostly when combined with other planets. For example, if you have major oppositions (which are actually repulsions) with someone, that Venus Conjunct Mars may just add more of a repulsion. The Mars person may desire Venus but the Venus person feels like the cat when Pepe Le Pu is hugging on her LOL..

I love the trines my Husband and I share. Our Sun Trine does help us have that natural understanding of the other's core personality. We are very similar yet I am more action oriented at times (Aries moon) while he can be prone to day dreams. Ee both have Pisces on the 7th house and his Moon fits right into that dreamy part I love so much.

The best part is the communication. We are both Virgo risings ruled by Mercury. We talk every day, e-mail and text (he is in Germany until December and will be back for Army training, then I will move to Germany with him in March).

Even though we are far apart- we feel more connected than most people.

The trines add that understanding and ability to communicate on a level that is sometimes not seen with squares or oppositions.. or even inconjuncts.

How about your relationship now?

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Kamilla
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posted September 22, 2006 04:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think oppositions should be looked at as repulsion. In fact, many sources
consider it a positive while challenging aspect.

For instance, CafeAstrology:

Sun opposition Sun in synastry:

Opposites attract! Although the two of you have many basic differences in your personalities, you are, nevertheless, attracted to each other and intrigued by each other. This is not a lukewarm relationship! It can easily lean towards a love-hate relationship: you love and respect each other when you are able to complement each other, and you hate each other when you fail to understand and appreciate your differences. When disagreements arise, the argument is between your egos. Beware of appearing haughty, judgmental, or self-righteous with each other when really the argument is about differences in basic temperaments. When "ego wars" occur between the two of you, remember that your partner is never going to be what they weren't born to be. Appreciate your basic differences, as you have much potential to complement each other. It is up to the two of you to develop mutual appreciation for your differences rather than antagonize each other.

The opposition between the Sun and the Moon in synastry is less problematic than the square, simply because there is a ping-pong effect and some kind of promise of potential balance. The attraction is strong and mutual, and the ties can be quite binding, as both people involved are drawn to the relationship.

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BlueEyes24
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posted September 22, 2006 04:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't believe oppositions are repulsions either. I'd take them over squares anyday. I think oppositions cause more attraction than anything, even though they CAN be challenging at times.

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Glaucus
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posted September 22, 2006 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Darkdreamer,

thanks for explaining things to me. I wasn't sure if it was the same guy.

I focus mainly on the major aspects which are the Ptolemaic aspects(conjunction,opposition,trine,square,sextile).
Midpoint configurations are what I would look at next which would include conjunction,opposition,square,semisquare,and sesquiquadrate just like Cosmobiology. Minor aspects would be secondary stuff. I would look for 5th harmonic aspects for romantic connections and 7th harmonic aspects for mystical connections. I would even include 10th harmonic which half a 5th harmonic. I would include 9th harmonic aspect because it has to with idealism. Vedic Astrologers use 9th harmonic chart for marriage. Trines are also trinoviles (3 x 40 degrees = 120 degrees). I would pay attention to the 8th harmonic aspects(semisquare,sesquiquadrate)and 12th harmonic aspects(semisextile,quincunx). I'd put more weight on near exact minor aspects than wide major aspects. The quindecile(165 degree aspect) has to do compulsions,obsessions. Those might be good to look at obsessive-compulsions in relationship.


A 3D aspect is measured with the angular or great circle distance in the celestial sphere between 2 objects, while the regular aspect is measured along the ecliptic. Regardless of the orbital inclination, when the planet has low latitude the ecliptical distance and the true abgular distance will be nearely the same.

The aspects that astrologers use are apparent aspects. They don't use 3D true body aspects.

Riyal lists the true angular distance in its aspectarium. It doesn't seem to do synastry. Solar Fire does.


When the object has high latitude, then conjunctions and oppositions never happen, or happen only rarely.


Not only Pluto... the differences in the conjunction/opposition between the Moon and Venus periodically become dramatic.


I'd definitely consider the true body 3D aspects and not just the apparent body aspects.

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23
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posted September 22, 2006 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Um, isn't synastry to do with how people are brought together in a relationship? Shouldn't people be looking at Composite/Davidson charts?

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pidaua
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posted September 22, 2006 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To each their own. Oppositions in a sense are repulsions or else they wouldn't be opposite.

It wasn't meant in the sense of "OMG I am going to barf I am so repulsed". Trying to get two opposites together can cause major problems depending on the aspects.

Sun to Sun is about basic nature, moon to moon is about how we FEEL - yes the other has characteristics we lack- yet it is not always comfortable to be faced with what we lack and who is to say we feel as though we are lacking in the first place?

Opposition in it's very name means to resist, to represent to very opposite extremes. If there are kind aspects in the chart, then yes the oppositions will not be has harsh.

Venus opposing anything is not harmful. The Sun opposing Pluto causes MUCH conflict.

Often times, such as in the latter example, the two people will avoid each other like the plague.

I avoid Libra moon people and have never successfully dated a Gemini or Libra man. I found them to be interesting and Repulsive at the same time.

Linda Goodman likened opposites to a pictures on either side of the coin. Yes, they make up a coin, but they do not come together naturally and face each other.

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