posted October 12, 2006 01:29 PM            

I don't use more than 7 degree orb for square..don't feel right using more than 6 degree orb for a square. I am concerned about running into other harmonic aspects. A wide orbed square could function differently due to it being an aspect of a different harmonic.

For instance, My uncle has Moon in 14'27 Aquarius and his Neptune is in 6'57 Scorpio. A lot of astrologers would say that he has Moon square(90'00) Neptune with 7'30 orb. However, his Moon is triundecile(98'11) Neptune with 41 minutes of arc. That's an 11th harmonic aspect. I read that 11th harmonic can be difficult too. Also...11th harmonic could also be about inspiration like 11 in Numerology. A master number,it has great potential but great challenges. 11 is highly intuitive, even psychic, this Master number is a channel between the sub-conscious and the conscious mind. Highly charged. Can be neurotic. I have Mercury square Mars with 7'33 orb. However,I have Mercury triundecile Mars with 38 minutes of arc,and part of an 11th harmonic pattern. 11th harmonic is prominent in my chart. I wouldn't have known this if I had used wide orbed squares. BTW..my birthday is on 29th. 29 reduces to 11. 2 + 9 = 11.

I feel that if we overlook harmonic aspects by using wide orbs for major aspects and commonly used minor aspects,we overlook other harmonic aspects that can give more detail. I already pointed this out to others about using wide orbs for quincunx(150'00,12th harmonic) would end up overlooking the biquintile(144'00,5th harmonic) and triseptile(154'17,7th harmonic). Using wide orbs for Noel Tyl's quindecile(165'00) lead to overlooking the quinqueundecile(163'38,11th harmonic). Using wide orbs for sextile lead to overlooking the septile(51'26,7th harmonic). Using wide orbs for semisextile(30'00,12th harmonic) lead to overlooking the undecile(32'44,11th harmonic).

I wouldn't astrologers dismiss my triundecile just because they think that I have a square nor would I let them dismiss my biquintile because they think that I have a quincunx nor would I let them dismiss my quinqueundecile because they think that I have a quindecile. I wouldn't do that to any other's charts. We have harmonics for a reason.

You run into different harmonics when you use wide orbs. You can easily overlook other aspect patterns. The wide orbed aspects can have a combination influence of the wide orbed aspect and the actual harmonic aspect that it is. I guess the combination of those can be confused and stressful like 2 people fighting over the steering wheel and arguing who is the better driver.

page 113 of HOROSCOPE SYMBOLS by Robert Hand

Though we do not yet know quite what do do with it in practical work,recent research into harmonics has raised another consideration about orbs. The work of John Addey and others makes it appear that wide-orbed aspects differ qualitatively as well as quantitatively from close-orbed aspects. Thus a square of 96 degrees may have nature quite different from a square of exactly 90 degrees, because whereas 90 degrees is based on the fourth harmonic,96 degrees is based on the fifteenth harmonic(4 x 360 degrees/15 = 96 degrees). Much research remains to be done,however,before we can use this in practical chart delineation.

I can see My Moon square Neptune with 1'22 orb being an actual square. I can see my Moon square Saturn with 1'58 being an an actual square. I definitely feel them as a square,and they do form a t-square. Therefore,I have Moon oppose Saturn/Neptune midpoint with 17 minutes of arc. However,I wouldn't view my Mercury square Mars with over 7 degrees to be a square at all. It's a triundecile and part of my 11th harmonic aspect pattern with Ascendant,Saturn,and Uranus. Astrologers would use wide orbed configurations,but those might not even be true configurations. Also there could be midpoint configuration that helps them relate to the aspect pattern. opposition of 2 points doesn't have to be in orb to square another point. There can be wide separation of A point to C and a wide applying of B to C so that A/B=C.

I believe that looking at the harmonic chart can help see if you actually have that aspect in the 1st harmonic chart.

For instance, to see if I actually have a biquintile(5th harmonic) in my 1st harmonic chart,I would check my 5th harmonic chart to see if I have any conjunctions in that chart. 5th harmonic aspects in 1st harmonic chart appear as conjunctions in 5th harmonic chart. If they appear as conjunction in 5th harmonic,then they actually are in biquintile. I am not sure about the orbs yet. I read that harmonic orbs are different from conjunction regular orbs in 1st harmonic chart. I read that they can be considerably wider than in a 1st harmonic chart. I was reading that it can be past 15 degrees. I have Sun trine(3rd harmonic) Moon with 2'10 orb that appears Sun conjunct Moon with 6'28 orb in the 3rd harmonic. It seems it's multiplying the harmonic number with the orb to get the orb in the harmonic chart. I have Moon square(4th harmonic) Neptune with 1'22 orb, and it appears as Moon conj Neptune with 5'31 orb in the 4th harmonic chart. Trines are tricky too. Trine is also trinovile. A trine within 2 degree orb will appear as a conjunction in 9th harmonic chart. My girlfriend's Sun trine Uranus with 14 minutes of arc appear as Sun conjunct Uranus with 2'07 orb in 9th harmonic chart. Her Sun trine Jupiter with 1'41 orb appear as Sun conjunct Jupiter with around 15 degree orb in 9th harmonic. BTW..If a synastry involves trines 2 degrees and less,they form conjunctions in 9th harmonic chart. My girlfriend's Venus trines my Ascendant with 3 minutes of arc. In our 9th harmonic chart synastry,her Venus conjuncts my Ascendant with 29 minutes of arc. 9th harmonic chart is used for marriage in Vedic Astrology. It's called the navamsha.

I can't wait to receive my book SABIAN ASPECT ORBS....It has so much stuff on harmonic aspects.

It's all Geometry.